Win98SE- Where next?

Hi All,

Running Win98SE with Norton 2001 AV and Zone Alarm (free) firewall. Soon all
support for Win98SE will be withdrawn. Where do I go from here? Who will
still be supporting Win98SE in terms of AV and firewall? Do I just carry on
as normal or plan an upgrade to XP or Vista.

Would be grateful for any comments/suggestions.

Thanks.

Mac.

I would continue like normal until there is a very good reason to upgrade.
Maybe Vista may be the upgrade sometimes next year.

Firewalls does not really need regular upgrades. I do not know what type of
support that will be available for future upgrades to virus checkers.

--
Jon Hildrum
DTS MVP

www.hildrum.com
"Mac1" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

Running Win98SE with Norton 2001 AV and Zone Alarm (free) firewall. Soon
all
support for Win98SE will be withdrawn. Where do I go from here? Who will
still be supporting Win98SE in terms of AV and firewall? Do I just carry
on
as normal or plan an upgrade to XP or Vista.

Would be grateful for any comments/suggestions.

Thanks.

Mac.

Mac1 wrote:

Hi All,

Running Win98SE with Norton 2001 AV and Zone Alarm (free) firewall. Soon all
support for Win98SE will be withdrawn. Where do I go from here? Who will
still be supporting Win98SE in terms of AV and firewall? Do I just carry on
as normal or plan an upgrade to XP or Vista.


Is Norton still supporting 2001? They don't list anything older than
2004 on the downloads page.

There are a number of antivirus products that still work just fine
with Windows 98, including free ones such as AVG and AVAST.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP (1997 - 2006)
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference
has never been in bed with a mosquito."

Ron Martell wrote:

Soon all support for Win98SE will be withdrawn. Where do I go
from here?

You know, there will soon be a million posts like this - stupid-ass
people who will scream and run for the hills come July 11. I'm not
going to waste my time anymore telling them that they don't know how
much better off they are with Win-98.

Who will still be supporting Win98SE in terms of AV and firewall?

Again, it's the god damn firewall thing.

Look people, firewalls are for the birds! Who keeps telling you to
use a (software) firewall? Especially on Win-98?

Don't you know that if/when your computer *really* gets infected with
a trojan or virus, the first thing it will do is to turn off your
firewall?

Do a google search for "NAT router", then go and buy one.

Running Win98SE with Norton 2001 AV and Zone Alarm (free)
firewall.

Is Norton still supporting 2001?

Norton's LiveUpdate feature is still supporting NAV 2002, and I
suspect NAV 2001 also. There are reports dating back maybe 6 months
that Symantec started refusing to take money from people who were
running NAV 2001 and were trying to pay for the annual 1-year
subscriptions. If true, then the only way that someone could still be
running NAV 2001 would be if they uninstalled it, deleted all NAV
program files and directories, then re-installed it. That proceedure
works for both NAV 2001 and 2002.

For anyone running Win-98 and who also has the original program CD for
NAV 2001 or 2002 (or the Norton System Works version of NAV) then you
have a good Anti-virus program and as I stated above, you can continue
to use it (for free).

And just FYI, updates to the detection engine are also happening for
NAV 2002, which means that it's just as capable of detecting malware
as, say, NAV 2005 or 2006.

There are a number of antivirus products that still work just
fine with Windows 98 ...

And I think that NAV 2001/2002 is probably the best.

First off, please watch the language. We have visitors here of all ages and
types and some of them (myself included) don't appreciate cursing.

Second, I'm glad you're going to quit telling people how much better off
they are with Windows 98 than Windows XP - because it's dead wrong. It's
rather like the Macintosh enthusiasts who point at their Mac and crow that
it's infinitely safer than Windows is. Both sets of claims - theirs and
yours - are rooted in ignorance.

The only reason hackers and malware authors target Windows XP machines is
because that's where the money is - there are many of them so any
penetration yields maximum results in their warped and twisted ethos. But
that, conversely, does not mean that any other OS is "safer" by comparison.

Consider the parable of the man who announces that in order to keep his
fortune safe he's moving into the desert where there are fewer thieves. If
the thieves know where he is, and know that he's counting on obscurity to
protect his riches, they'll follow him into the desert and prove how foolish
his decision was.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User]
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
* My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"98 Guy" wrote in message ...

"Richard G. Harper" wrote:

The only reason hackers and malware authors target
Windows XP machines is because

Is because XP was, and continues to be, incredibly vulnerable to
remote control, infection, and intrusion.

Windows 98 never was. NEVER.

that's where the money is -

There's probably many 98 systems still in use, connected to the
internet via broadband.

It's a fallacy put forward by XP lemmings that 98 isin't "targeted" by
malware authors because of it's purported low numbers still in use.
The truth they don't want to admit is that you really can't write
malware or come up with vectors specifically for 98 - because there
aren't any!

XP, which is based on NT and 2000, is first and formost an OS designed
for institutional/corporate deployment and was never designed to be
"open-facing" to the internet as it is in SOHO situations. Both XP
pro and home come with many services turned on, and many features
(like security accounts settings, permissions, etc) that make
absolutely no sense in a SOHO situation, and in fact can prevent users
from properly discovering, diagnosing, and fixing infected systems.

Compare the content of the following two links:

http://secunia.com/product/22/
http://secunia.com/product/16/

With this one:

http://secunia.com/product/13/

XP has between 126 to 141 security advisories since it was introduced
in Oct 2001. 98se has a grand total of 32, and it's been around 2
years longer than XP!

XP currently has between 25 to 28 security advisories that are
unpatched. 98se has 3.

You tell me which OS is more "vulnerable" to malware.

What you're trying to say is that malware authors are targetting XP
over 98 because it's so vulnerable.

"98 Guy" wrote in message ...
Ron Martell wrote:

Soon all support for Win98SE will be withdrawn. Where do I go
from here?

You know, there will soon be a million posts like this - stupid-ass
people who will scream and run for the hills come July 11. I'm not
going to waste my time anymore telling them that they don't know how
much better off they are with Win-98.

Who will still be supporting Win98SE in terms of AV and firewall?

Again, it's the god damn firewall thing.

Look people, firewalls are for the birds! Who keeps telling you to
use a (software) firewall? Especially on Win-98?

Don't you know that if/when your computer *really* gets infected with
a trojan or virus, the first thing it will do is to turn off your
firewall?


Find it strange that such programmng can't access the NAT router from a
person's PC and disable it if the factory default password is still used.

Do a google search for "NAT router", then go and buy one.

Running Win98SE with Norton 2001 AV and Zone Alarm (free)
firewall.

Is Norton still supporting 2001?

Norton's LiveUpdate feature is still supporting NAV 2002, and I
suspect NAV 2001 also. There are reports dating back maybe 6 months
that Symantec started refusing to take money from people who were
running NAV 2001 and were trying to pay for the annual 1-year
subscriptions. If true, then the only way that someone could still be
running NAV 2001 would be if they uninstalled it, deleted all NAV
program files and directories, then re-installed it. That proceedure
works for both NAV 2001 and 2002.

For anyone running Win-98 and who also has the original program CD for
NAV 2001 or 2002 (or the Norton System Works version of NAV) then you
have a good Anti-virus program and as I stated above, you can continue
to use it (for free).

And just FYI, updates to the detection engine are also happening for
NAV 2002, which means that it's just as capable of detecting malware
as, say, NAV 2005 or 2006.

There are a number of antivirus products that still work just
fine with Windows 98 ...

And I think that NAV 2001/2002 is probably the best.

Jonny wrote:
"98 Guy" wrote in message ...
Ron Martell wrote:

Soon all support for Win98SE will be withdrawn. Where do I go
from here?

You know, there will soon be a million posts like this - stupid-ass
people who will scream and run for the hills come July 11. I'm not
going to waste my time anymore telling them that they don't know how
much better off they are with Win-98.

Who will still be supporting Win98SE in terms of AV and firewall?

Again, it's the god damn firewall thing.

Look people, firewalls are for the birds! Who keeps telling you to
use a (software) firewall? Especially on Win-98?

Don't you know that if/when your computer *really* gets infected with
a trojan or virus, the first thing it will do is to turn off your
firewall?


Find it strange that such programmng can't access the NAT router from a
person's PC and disable it if the factory default password is still used.

Do a google search for "NAT router", then go and buy one.

Running Win98SE with Norton 2001 AV and Zone Alarm (free)
firewall.

Is Norton still supporting 2001?

Norton's LiveUpdate feature is still supporting NAV 2002, and I
suspect NAV 2001 also. There are reports dating back maybe 6 months
that Symantec started refusing to take money from people who were
running NAV 2001 and were trying to pay for the annual 1-year
subscriptions. If true, then the only way that someone could still be
running NAV 2001 would be if they uninstalled it, deleted all NAV
program files and directories, then re-installed it. That proceedure
works for both NAV 2001 and 2002.

For anyone running Win-98 and who also has the original program CD for
NAV 2001 or 2002 (or the Norton System Works version of NAV) then you
have a good Anti-virus program and as I stated above, you can continue
to use it (for free).

And just FYI, updates to the detection engine are also happening for
NAV 2002, which means that it's just as capable of detecting malware
as, say, NAV 2005 or 2006.

There are a number of antivirus products that still work just
fine with Windows 98 ...

And I think that NAV 2001/2002 is probably the best.

Jonny wrote:
"98 Guy" wrote in message ...
Ron Martell wrote:

Soon all support for Win98SE will be withdrawn. Where do I go
from here?

You know, there will soon be a million posts like this - stupid-ass
people who will scream and run for the hills come July 11. I'm not
going to waste my time anymore telling them that they don't know how
much better off they are with Win-98.

Who will still be supporting Win98SE in terms of AV and firewall?

Again, it's the god damn firewall thing.

Look people, firewalls are for the birds! Who keeps telling you to
use a (software) firewall? Especially on Win-98?


Don't you know that if/when your computer *really* gets infected with
a trojan or virus, the first thing it will do is to turn off your
firewall?


Find it strange that such programmng can't access the NAT router from a
person's PC and disable it if the factory default password is still used.

Do a google search for "NAT router", then go and buy one.

Running Win98SE with Norton 2001 AV and Zone Alarm (free)
firewall.

Is Norton still supporting 2001?

Norton's LiveUpdate feature is still supporting NAV 2002, and I
suspect NAV 2001 also. There are reports dating back maybe 6 months
that Symantec started refusing to take money from people who were
running NAV 2001 and were trying to pay for the annual 1-year
subscriptions. If true, then the only way that someone could still be
running NAV 2001 would be if they uninstalled it, deleted all NAV
program files and directories, then re-installed it. That proceedure
works for both NAV 2001 and 2002.

For anyone running Win-98 and who also has the original program CD for
NAV 2001 or 2002 (or the Norton System Works version of NAV) then you
have a good Anti-virus program and as I stated above, you can continue
to use it (for free).

And just FYI, updates to the detection engine are also happening for
NAV 2002, which means that it's just as capable of detecting malware
as, say, NAV 2005 or 2006.

There are a number of antivirus products that still work just
fine with Windows 98 ...

And I think that NAV 2001/2002 is probably the best.

Hi - I love Windows 98 and have been using it for years while all
around are using XP and telling me how much better it is and how
old-fashioned I am etc. Now I am delighted to see you chaps support
me. I have only had about two viruses and both were got rid of quite
easily with AVG. The only beef I have with Win98SE is that frequently
it won't shut down and I have to turn off at the mains. Other than
that, nothing.

END OF SUPPORT FOR WINDOWS 98 AND MILLENNIUM. WHAT DO I DO?


If I might provide a bit of insight as I perceive it:::



If you truly wish to consider this from it's consumer/practical aspects, we
should think outside corporate/business objectives..

To do this, we should address a few obvious corporate misdirections first.




1. Corporations make their money from providing customer service and stable
products which do not need to be constantly tweaked/updated.



Obviously, this would be a distinct fallacy.



In the computer market, stable: mother boards; video chips; OSs;
applications; and other computer products, translate to stagnant sales,
stagnant corporate growth, and lack of ability to stimulate market/economic
growth in general.

Therefore, corporations must constantly create "new and improved" versions
of their products. If they can manage to convince the consumer, that the new
product is superior, they gain the first step in ensuring this "private"
growth.

The first line of "offense" in these "corporate wars" is not the product,
but the advertising. The "perceived" worth of the product carries the corp
to the next level. The market has been flooded, at times, with products
which only carried a "perceived worth". Consumers buy into the product until
the next "advertising genius" convinces the consumer that it's product is
superior.

Addressing this at the corps' own established level, the corp must create a
supposed "need" to buy into one of it's newer products if it already
controls that segment of the market.




2. Corporations gain market share solely via their own advertising,
products, and services.



Obviously, this would also be a misdirection.



Let's take two corporations which have been openly working "hand in hand".
Microsoft and Intel have been working towards combined market goals.

Each receives the benefit of supporting the others products. Both have
designed segments of their products around the new aspects the other
produced, thereby ensuring that both corps receive mutual "enrichment".

By using their own personal "market muscle", they can thereby ensure that
they both remain the leaders in their respective markets. So long as they
provide "hooks" into their "areas" of dominance for other corps to use, the
legal aspects of the "conjoined" market initiative is somewhat obscured and
protected.

The other "marketers", however, must follow the design plans of the leaders.

[Let's add another into the mix, AMD. Now we find three leaders working
"hand in hand" upon the consumer market. Microsoft provides the OS to use
with these chips; where Intel and AMD both receive direct support for their
chip sets, processors. Stir in VIA and you have four, etc.].




3. Intel will not provide support and drivers for it's new chipsets and
processors for Microsoft's older OSs.



TRUE.. but why?



By refusing to provide this support, Intel ensures increases in it's own
board and chipset manufacturing and resultant sales, and it's conjunctive
agreement with Microsoft; since Microsoft also will not provide support
within the older OSs for these chipsets and processors.



3a. Microsoft is ending support for 98, Millennium, and other older OSs.



Apparently true.



Microsoft ensures that consumers will, by necessity, have to buy into it's
new OSs if the consumers wish to use the newer chipsets, processors, and
gizmos being produced.



3b. No new DLLs, drivers, and other will be supplied for the "older" OSs to
support the new chipsets and gizmos developed, both by Microsoft AND other
marketers.



Not exactly true, some after-marketers will supply supporting drivers and
updates.




4. By controlling the general home consumer market, Microsoft and others
ensure their corporate growth.



Obviously this is true.



Let's look at how this works.



The home market is the general "key" used to further market dominance. By
training home users to "think Microsoft" not only is the home market
garnered, but the "business" world is also guaranteed.

When these users enter the business world, they expect the same style of
familiar OS in this environment. They are extremely reluctant to learn safer
and more secure systems like Unix - Linux [Posix], Solaris, and the like,
because of the perceived "learning curve" associated with these other OSs
[forgetting. of course, the learning curve they went through with
Microsoft's OSs].



--------



WHERE NEXT - ON THE END CONSUMER SIDE


The consumer can, and should, now look to other applications to provide
their browser, email, and other Internet related uses.



ON THE DEVELOPER/PROGRAMMER SIDE:


For the first time in the existence of these OSs, the coding may be
addressed without fear of future changes by Microsoft. Any and all base
coding they produce can be brought to relative finality. Moreover, they can
now begin to address their own coding flaws and any they find in Microsoft's
OSs through their own coding. Known holes, exploits, and flaws in these OSs
can now be blocked or otherwise negated by these second and third tier
programmers/developers.



THE CONSUMER'S PROBLEM:


Many developer's and programmers will not be providing new programs or fixed
versions of their programs for these old OSs. The claim is that these are
dead and/or insecure OSs. Not true.

The reason many will not be supporting the older OSs is because the
application creators can NOT continue to claim new versions need to be
produced for their APPS.

Most new versions of Applications are produced to address some functionality
change by Microsoft. As there will be no more changes, the application
producers can NOT, generally, receive the larger revenue from version
changes, and would have to rely upon revenue from minor updates within the
existing versions.

On the other side: any new versions would HAVE to include massive changes in
their own application, due to Microsoft STABLE coding... they can no longer
point to Microsoft as the reason for version changes.. moreover, they can
NOT claim large amounts for "yearly update services" supposedly to ensure
the app will be upgraded due to "Microsoft changes" in base coding,
functions, and services. So we could reasonable state: They will not support
the old OSs due to limited revenue enhancement, not because of inherent
flaws, exploits, or other limitations.



Regretfully, Microsoft is instrumental in causing this lack of support. Just
as Microsoft ensures its own revenue enhancement by creating new OSs and
dropping support for older systems, so do the application and device
providers following Microsoft's lead.



WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE IF I INTEND TO USE THE OLDER OSs?


1. Do everything possible to ensure Internet security if you intend to use
it for such. If not, find the applications you intend to use or may use in
the future.

2. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE MANUALLY DOWNLOADED ALL THE MICROSOFT UPDATES TO YOUR
DISK AND BURNED THEM TO A CDROM OR OTHER MEDIA. You will need them in the
distant future for your older computers. Save your "%windir%\Windows
update.log" and your download history from the Microsoft site. The update
log supplies the updates/fixes as they were installed on your computer, and
the download log would show what you manually downloaded. Another useful
file would be the iuhist.xml from the "\Program Files\WindowsUpdate\V4\"
folder. With these you can manually update after clean re-installs, forever,
if you should wish to do so.



SECURING YOUR COMPUTER


1. Install a router.

Look for router which has the style of connection you intend to use.

If using a phone line, an analog phone connection will be required [if you
can still find one] or one which allows connection through an external
modem. If not skip to 2..

Connect your computer through this "routed" connection as the router has a
hardware style of "firewall".



If using cable, DSL, or other high speed connection, use a router which
supports the style of connections you will be using.



2. Install an older version of a software firewall or do not attempt to
update beyond the last compatible version.



You can still find archived older versions of firewalls which are both
secure AND do not need updates.

Some will require manual configurations [which allows you the ability to
tweak to your own needs], others contain "automatic" configuration routines
which are somewhat more insecure as they may not allow you to shut off or
define "ports" and program access to the extent manually configured
firewalls can.

Kerio, ZoneAlarm, Sygate, and several others can still be found and used.

Note though, that software firewalls can be defeated if attacked, but
generally are safe unless attacked from the inside, e.g. by YOU allowing
something INTO your computer. Therefore, you are responsible for your own
security. The more stringent your firewall restrictions, the safer you
become.

Make your computer as "stealthy" as possible. If you are essentially
"invisible" then you may not be attacked easily.

Make sure your ISP is also secure.. harass them if you find they aren't..



3. Install and use an anti-virus program.



Look or watch for virus programs which will continue support for your old
operating system. You will likely have to use an old version of a major
application (McAfee ?), though you will find other free programs which
perform the same or similar functions. Avast, AVG, are presently two of the
free programs you can use. Make sure you keep them updated and configured
properly.



4. Install and use "spyware" discovery programs.



Anti-virus programs generally do not provide spyware blocking, e.g. from
cookies, browser hijacks, email secondary hijacks, activeX attacks, and the
like.

Therefore, search for a present program which supports your OS and which
will not require major updates to work in the future (which they now won't).

Present free "standards" a



Spybot Search & Destroy

Spyware Blaster

AdAware SE Personal Edition



Regardless whether you use these or choose others, use them consistently.
Any and all tracking and hijack [including browser helpers] is or can be, a
security breach.



5. Install a "supported" browser and email application.



This is the "interface" aspect to the Internet. Here is where most systems
will be compromised.

If you try to use an unsupported browser such as IE 6 and OE you will be
susceptible to attack as both contain holes, exploits, and other problems
associated with their use. As they ARE copyrighted and trademarked programs,
the base coding can not be presently changed. Therefore, it is time to start
looking for alternatives if you rely solely on these programs.



Opera is an older established browser which is again free, and apparently
will continue to support the older OSs. There are and will be others, as
many programmers have not bitten the "Microsoft" apple and realize the
potential use and security of these now stable OSs.

There are also several email clients which still support the "end of
support" OSs. Find one and use it.



6. Check for other types of security which you can install or configure in
the OS.



7. Do not think the new OSs are more secure.

They contain more "embedded security", but they also contain massive
security holes, exploits, and other problems. Moreover, unless you properly
configure them, they can be far more insecure. These are the OSs which will
be the "focus" for hackers, virus writers, and others who wish to attack
you, steal your information, or otherwise intrude into your lives.

Additionally, as they are newer: more exploits, and attack points exist; and
it's doubtful they will EVER be "finished" OSs in "light" of the apparent
marketing avenue Microsoft is pursuing. Somewhere a "break point" will be
instituted in the software. You should not expect the software bought for
these OSs, will work in future OSs, or that market would stagnate.




THE POTENTIAL


For the first time in the OSs existences, other programmers can now address
the flaws, holes, and exploits in the OSs without having to worry about
changes due to Microsoft. Granted, the "name brand" applications may not
support them, but others will for a considerable time.

As I have stated befo These OSs have the potential to become the most
secure OSs for use on the Internet, as long as you make the security effort
on your own computers, and don't get caught up in the "glitz" exploits [such
as flash and activeX, nifty "games" but constant pipe to advertising and
other attacks] now being used on the Internet.

Hopefully programmers and developers will continue to think of these OSs as
viable alternatives to "gotta have the newest regardless of the problems"
attitude so prevalent in our world [think throwaway mentality].



As for the websites now requiring flash, activeX, and other, for their use:

Think of your audience, and create pages which do not require these
potential exploits. As more users become aware of these security breaches
you will lose you advertising incomes... or at least limit the usage until
security can be designed around their use..



Maurice Edward, Brahier
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/re...upport_end.htm

© 2006 A Peoples' Counsel presents: Effort at information
REPRINTED WITH PERMISSION FOR THIS POSTING

"Mac1" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

Running Win98SE with Norton 2001 AV and Zone Alarm (free) firewall. Soon
all
support for Win98SE will be withdrawn. Where do I go from here? Who will
still be supporting Win98SE in terms of AV and firewall? Do I just carry
on
as normal or plan an upgrade to XP or Vista.

Would be grateful for any comments/suggestions.

Thanks.

Mac.