Tablet running W98 SE?

I wanted a tiny portable computer that didn't cost much. Dell's X50v
qualified till my sight made using it a rediculous task, and it only runs
Windows Mobile. A Psion Workabout MX was cheap until a few idiots started
demanding a couple of hundred quid each and another idot paid, setting a
precedent that Psion themselves must wonder at given that THEY couldn't get
that much beyond a few years prior to this! And they only run their own
systems with limited graphics and no colour, and they keep lousy time for
critical tasks. There are a few DOS handheld machines, but having tried one,
never again. Ok for collectors, but not for active use.

So it seems I need to use W98, the only system that doesn't make me want to
look for something else. I hate laptops, too fragile, too fiddly. PicoITX is
an awesome possibility, but extremely expensive and needs too much DIY to
make it work as a complete machine. I already do DIY for all my machines, but
it's not a basis for any machine I'd be willing to leave under a bush when I
go running and want to log the event, or make a GPS for a bike or boat, or
use outside on dirty projects that can use a bit of computing help..

So that's the context. Does anyone know of some past machine that might fit?
Ideally cheap, no folding parts, a screen that stands up to getting hit,
something no laptop can handle. Those Dell X50v's are surprisingly tough, but
too small, but something similar, bigger, running W98, would be ideal. The
main difficulty seems to be the keyboard, so I might have to find something
with a touchscreen and software to make a keybpoard appear on that.

Has anyone here tried to solve similar needs, and if so, how? The choices
seem endless, IF we give up W98, but that's not an option here, so I might
see better answers here than most places. Maybe there was even a commercial
tablet attempted in W98's prime, that I never heard of, or some specialised
small 'embedded' machine with its own screen...

One other possibility is an i386 emulator running on a newer machine, but I
suspect this is a bad idea. I know it's been done, but only as a proof that
it CAN be done, so far as I know. I need something that does it efficiently,
if not natively.

-----------------------------------------

One thought I have is that very durable laptop machines have been made. Maybe
even in W98's time. They'd have been expensive beyond reason at the time, but
maybe not now, if I could identify and find one.

I'm out of ideas now. If anyone can come up with more, please do, the more
specific, the better.

In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
[]
One thought I have is that very durable laptop machines have been made. Maybe
even in W98's time. They'd have been expensive beyond reason at the time, but
maybe not now, if I could identify and find one.

They still are made, but they're not cheap. The military use them, and
also some organisations like (in UK) gas board service engineers.

Embedded versions of W98 have existed, I don't know if still: the people
who did 98lite (I think they're called litepc now) did/do one (in under
50M IIRR). Have a look at their site.

I'm out of ideas now. If anyone can come up with more, please do, the more
specific, the better.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said Pooh, when he looked up his name in the dictionary.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

They still are made, but they're not cheap. The military use them, and
also some organisations like (in UK) gas board service engineers.


Thanks. Any idea who makes them? I was hoping that if they were unable to
cope with WXP that might limit the price they get now.

Embedded versions of W98 have existed, I don't know if still: the people
who did 98lite (I think they're called litepc now) did/do one (in under
50M IIRR). Have a look at their site.


That bit I CAN do. Finding hardware is the problem, it has to be common
enough for the price to be reasonable, and replacement easy to do.

In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

They still are made, but they're not cheap. The military use them, and
also some organisations like (in UK) gas board service engineers.


Thanks. Any idea who makes them? I was hoping that if they were unable to
cope with WXP that might limit the price they get now.

I thought I remembered the name toughbook, and putting that into Google
suggest that that name belongs to Panasonic. That Google search also
throws up the following "Fantastic low prices" on them - £3k8, £1k3, and
£900, depending on specification. But ebay shows them down to ("buy it
now" prices - i. e. ignoring auctions) £99, which gets you DVD-ROM,
MoDem, OS (XP), USB, wifi, 30G, 12.1" widescreen touchscreen (800x600),
mobile Pentium 3 800 MHz, 512M - oh, look for yourself:
http://goo.gl/XeeDj (they have 6 of them left). I was surprised: for
something you can drive over but still runs XP (though a fast trot
rather than a run, I would expect, with 512M and 800 MHz - though they
do say you can watch DVDs on it), I was expecting a lot more.
[]
That bit I CAN do. Finding hardware is the problem, it has to be common
enough for the price to be reasonable, and replacement easy to do.

Well, they say they've sold over 100 of them.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. -Niels Bohr, physicist
(1885-1962)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

I thought I remembered the name toughbook, and putting that into Google
suggest that that name belongs to Panasonic. That Google search also
throws up the following "Fantastic low prices" on them - £3k8, £1k3, and
£900, depending on specification. But ebay shows them down to ("buy it
now" prices - i. e. ignoring auctions) £99, which gets you DVD-ROM,
MoDem, OS (XP), USB, wifi, 30G, 12.1" widescreen touchscreen (800x600),
mobile Pentium 3 800 MHz, 512M - oh, look for yourself:
http://goo.gl/XeeDj (they have 6 of them left). I was surprised: for
something you can drive over but still runs XP (though a fast trot
rather than a run, I would expect, with 512M and 800 MHz - though they
do say you can watch DVDs on it), I was expecting a lot more.


Looks interesting. I think I heard of the name 'Toughbook' before too, but
years ago at least. Maybe not so portable though, for real light travel. I
think in the end PicoITX might end up being the best way, IF it ever becomes
cheap.

About the 98-Lite based embedded thing, I couldn't get a response to emails
when I tried about 3 months ago, or at any tiem previously. I have no idea
what it takes to get a response. I get the impression that sounding like I
have about ten grand of government or company money is a minimum threshold,
and I haven't seen any sign of new developments for a long time on any site
related to the Lite-PC embedded systems either. This is why I decided to do
my own W98 reduction to the extremes I'm taking it to on X98, to build back
up from there. It became totally clear to me that if I didn't, it would
happen for me. Maybe it might for someone else, but NOT for me. Lite-PC don't
build hardware either, which is why I'm still trying to figure out some ideal
small portable W98 hardware support.

One of the main weaknesses in any choice is limiting to non-standard screen
and keyboard. PicoITX has to be the best in all detail but cost, I think. It
allows anything that can be connected to standard keyboard, monitor and mouse
ports. But I find it hard to beleive that a tablet PC running W98 efficiently
and natively demands that I build my own. Were tablet PC's really so unheard
of in W98's time, that NONE existed at all?

"Lostgallifreyan" wrote in message
. ..
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

I thought I remembered the name toughbook, and putting that into Google
suggest that that name belongs to Panasonic. That Google search also
throws up the following "Fantastic low prices" on them - £3k8, £1k3, and
£900, depending on specification. But ebay shows them down to ("buy it
now" prices - i. e. ignoring auctions) £99, which gets you DVD-ROM,
MoDem, OS (XP), USB, wifi, 30G, 12.1" widescreen touchscreen (800x600),
mobile Pentium 3 800 MHz, 512M - oh, look for yourself:
http://goo.gl/XeeDj (they have 6 of them left). I was surprised: for
something you can drive over but still runs XP (though a fast trot
rather than a run, I would expect, with 512M and 800 MHz - though they
do say you can watch DVDs on it), I was expecting a lot more.


Looks interesting. I think I heard of the name 'Toughbook' before too, but
years ago at least. Maybe not so portable though, for real light travel. I
think in the end PicoITX might end up being the best way, IF it ever
becomes
cheap.

About the 98-Lite based embedded thing, I couldn't get a response to
emails
when I tried about 3 months ago, or at any tiem previously. I have no idea
what it takes to get a response. I get the impression that sounding like I
have about ten grand of government or company money is a minimum
threshold,
and I haven't seen any sign of new developments for a long time on any
site
related to the Lite-PC embedded systems either. This is why I decided to
do
my own W98 reduction to the extremes I'm taking it to on X98, to build
back
up from there. It became totally clear to me that if I didn't, it would
happen for me. Maybe it might for someone else, but NOT for me. Lite-PC
don't
build hardware either, which is why I'm still trying to figure out some
ideal
small portable W98 hardware support.

One of the main weaknesses in any choice is limiting to non-standard
screen
and keyboard. PicoITX has to be the best in all detail but cost, I think.
It
allows anything that can be connected to standard keyboard, monitor and
mouse
ports. But I find it hard to beleive that a tablet PC running W98
efficiently
and natively demands that I build my own. Were tablet PC's really so
unheard
of in W98's time, that NONE existed at all?

You a nymphs, for Young grasshoppers are referred to as nymphs,

Mr. Lostgallifreyan

Reminder for you,
New Technique,
Always have New Methods of doing Things,
it the same with Computer Hardware and Software ...



--
http://mynews.ath.cx

Lostgallifreyan wrote:

But I find it hard to beleive that a tablet PC
running W98 efficiently and natively demands that I build
my own. Were tablet PC's really so unheard of in W98's
time, that NONE existed at all?

Well I own a Toshiba T200 tablet from around 1994. Not sure it
would do for your purposes, it runs the pen computing modified
version of Windows 3.1 as standard but running Windows 95 has
been done by others. However 98 SE is definitely too much for a
40MHz 486.

Tablets came about in the late eighties and grew fairly well in
the early nineties, that there was a slump in the late nineties
seems unlikely, however I don't actually know of a Windows 98
tablet edition so one couldn't rule out a poorly remembered
tablet sales tragedy.

Taking the T200 as an example of tablets from the time, it does
indeed seem sturdy (not to mention weighty), but how a machine
with its screen open to the world could be more appealing in
terms of durability than a laptop isn't really apparent to me.

A final note in respect to buying an early tablet if there is
one which suits. I've found that NiCad or NiMH batteries of this
age are usually capable of powering their computer for about a
second at most, if possible I'd look for a Lithium Ion option
unless you want to try and replace the innards of the old
battery yourself.
--
__ __
#_ |\| | _#

"Hot-text" wrote in -
privat.org:

You a nymphs, for Young grasshoppers are referred to as nymphs,

Mr. Lostgallifreyan

Reminder for you,
New Technique,
Always have New Methods of doing Things,
it the same with Computer Hardware and Software ...


*plonk* You stopped being funny when you started repeating the same inanity.

Computer Nerd Kev wrote in
:

Lostgallifreyan wrote:

But I find it hard to beleive that a tablet PC
running W98 efficiently and natively demands that I build
my own. Were tablet PC's really so unheard of in W98's
time, that NONE existed at all?

Well I own a Toshiba T200 tablet from around 1994. Not sure it
would do for your purposes, it runs the pen computing modified
version of Windows 3.1 as standard but running Windows 95 has
been done by others. However 98 SE is definitely too much for a
40MHz 486.


I will look at it though. Thanks. If they are very cheap now it might be
worth doing.

Tablets came about in the late eighties and grew fairly well in
the early nineties, that there was a slump in the late nineties
seems unlikely, however I don't actually know of a Windows 98
tablet edition so one couldn't rule out a poorly remembered
tablet sales tragedy.


I guess laptops took hold so much they tended to eclipse all else. For
handhelds, durability was a problem. For a long time, and even now, the old
Psion XP is preferred on aircraft carriers, and Amazon explorers, etc,
because for all its limits, it has strengths not matched by anything else for
twenty five years. It's also extremely cheap now, on eBay. For me, it's still
the only serious pocket computer in existence, I just have a hard time
beleiving there is no better one. I thought the Dell X50V was until cost,
fraility, and other problems became apparent with time and real-world use.

Taking the T200 as an example of tablets from the time, it does
indeed seem sturdy (not to mention weighty), but how a machine
with its screen open to the world could be more appealing in
terms of durability than a laptop isn't really apparent to me.


Agreed, though that changed. Well, maybe.. The best touchscreen I know of is
an ELO surface wave acoustic sensor, but it's not capable of the extremely
high resolution of the type used on X50V's. Maybe it could be if a higher
frequency was used. These screens have low light loss, and are so strong they
can take impacts from moderately heavy steel objects. They have no film
overlay so are also very scratch resistant. This method can make a screen
that is as invulnerablt to attack as a glazed ceramic tile. If supported by a
strong frame it would be the toughest part of the machine, not the weakest. I
guess the iPad is based on this notion, though I don't want one. Expensive,
and no W98.

A final note in respect to buying an early tablet if there is
one which suits. I've found that NiCad or NiMH batteries of this
age are usually capable of powering their computer for about a
second at most, if possible I'd look for a Lithium Ion option
unless you want to try and replace the innards of the old
battery yourself.

I'd find a way. Batteries are one of the easier things to solve, if the
cavity that holds them has enough space. The main problem with older gear is
lower efficiency, unless it is as limited as the Psion Organiser XP in what
it can do. It's not an easy compromise at all. I hope that there is an ARM
chipped device that can run W98 natively, but I suspect not, as ARM became
popular only after W98 was widely considered dead.

"Lostgallifreyan" wrote in message
. ..
"Hot-text" wrote in -
privat.org:

You a nymphs, for Young grasshoppers are referred to as nymphs,

Mr. Lostgallifreyan

Reminder for you,
New Technique,
Always have New Methods of doing Things,
it the same with Computer Hardware and Software ...


*plonk* You stopped being funny when you started repeating the same
inanity.

It stop being funny when you started with you started the name calling!

--
http://hot-text.ath.cx