@#$%! Toolbars

" Those who know don't speak ... those who are ignorant never keep
quiet "

MG

Heather wrote:

Beats the hell out of your idiotic ramblings about things you obviously
don't understand!!


moyl

"JAD" wrote in message
...
attacks = anything contrary to your preaching. You think this is an
ATTACK? sad ..

SR worked for me. I don't really know how many people have found it to be
useful.

Indeed, most of the time, it does NOTHING for me (kind of like insurance).
But it worked once when I needed it.

On that special day, Noel Paton, )
said...

Your demonstration of your own ignorance is growing in direct proportion to
the length of this thread.

In other words: This time you couldn't prove that I was completely
wrong, and now you are annoyed.


Gabriele Neukam




--
Ah, Information. A good, too valuable these days, to give it away, just
so, at no cost.

No - in other words, "you still don't have a clue".

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Gabriele Neukam" wrote in message
...
On that special day, Noel Paton, )
said...

Your demonstration of your own ignorance is growing in direct proportion
to
the length of this thread.

In other words: This time you couldn't prove that I was completely
wrong, and now you are annoyed.


Gabriele Neukam




--
Ah, Information. A good, too valuable these days, to give it away, just
so, at no cost.

On that special day, Noel Paton, )
said...

No - in other words, "you still don't have a clue".

His last words...


Gabriele Neukam




--
Often those who most loudly proclaim their freedom to choose in some
fields are the most retentive about 'correcting' others' choices in
other fields.
(Brian Brunner in alt.games.diablo2)

I'm certainly willing to entertain the notion that it is "unrepresentative".

g

Shane

"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
"Just lucky, I guess"


--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Shane" wrote in message
...
Maybe, but I'd be surprised if I hadn't over three years of it.


Shane

"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
"when I was using NAV I didn't have problems as a consequence of
running
SR" - possibly because you never attempted to use SR back across a
LiveUpdate point, which broke the Symantec registry entries?


--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to
NG's

"Shane" wrote in message
...
Quite, Noel.

And yet - on an unrepresentative note, when I was using NAV I didn't
have
problems as a consequence of running SR.

Meanwhile, bear in mind that the advice to disable SR before a scan
is
given
by most of the AV companies.


Shane


"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
Figgs
Your AV, and mine work well after a System Restore for one very good
reason - it's NOT Norton! - I suspect that JAD is using the 'trasher
of
systems' that Symantec continue to peddle as being fit-for-use in
ME.

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to
NG's

"Heather" wrote in message
...
snip
"JAD" wrote in message
...
snip
Tell me, how does your AV work after a system
restore?

My antivirus works just fine after a System Restore......why
wouldn't
it?
Remember what I said above.......I practice safe hex and the last
virus
I
got was Happy99 I believe......yes, 1999, 5 or 6 years ago when
Vecna
released that one. Due to using that blasted Norton as an AV.

"Gabriele Neukam" wrote in message
...
On that special day, Shane, ) said...

System Restore is valuable because backups are rarely made on a daily
basis.
Reasonably often on disinfecting the system, some component is found not
to
work anymore. If System Restore is still available it may provide the
opportunity to restore to before infection but since the last backup
(assuming one has been made).

If you want to give us the idea that system restore is the ultimate
solution to a screwed up computer, you are misunderstanding something.

Well, no, that's not what I want to do and I don't see how you could get the
idea that it was.

It cannot be a do-it-all wonder. It can replace some files with older
versions, and replace messed up registries, and that's it.


Right. And that's all it needs to do.

I myself deactivated my system restore in Windows ME in late 2000, and
guess what. My machine never was screwed up, didn't get infected by any
worm although there were dozens if not hundreds in the mail box, and
hasn't yet been trojanized or hijacked.


So what?

Why? I don't run Outlook Express for fetching mail, but T-Online eMail,
which is an extremely "dumb" mail program, and cannot be coaxed to "run"
"wavefiles" because of a malformed attachment declaration. And I surf
with opera or Mozilla, but never with an Internet Explorer.


I run Internet Explorer and Outlook Express (and Outlook) and I don't get
viruses, trojans, worms or other malware. So you see, Gabriele, it has
nothing whatsoever to do with what you or I achieve. It is in fact about
what those who are insufficiently knowledgable or indeed careful, fail to
achieve, and that they are precisely the ones most likely to benefit from
the ability to reverse loss of network settings, say, having cleaned
malware, with a couple of clicks and the minimum of technical instruction.

So my system is free of any given malware, and this WITHOUT system
restore. Someone who cannot keep his computer clean because of too basic
knowledge about how to operate it, will probably also be unable to tell
apart which restore point might be safe, and which not. And if the

Yes, well that's what I mean about elitism. Learning the principles of Safe
Hex is - except for those pre-disposed to the kind of logical thinking that
comes easily to the computer geek, ie one who is good at mathematics, ie not
the majority of the population - requires something of a philosophical
shift. The requisite understanding of System Restore can be adequately
expressed in a very short paragraph that large numbers of people who are not
innately computer-literate are nonetheless intelligent enough to understand.

Add to this the fact that most viruses are almost certainly discovered
almost immediately following infection and restoring a day or two before
one's AV notified of it will usually be sufficient.

When (if) one suggests the use of System Restore following a malware
infection, one includes - inseperably - the proviso that one restore back to
before the infection. This is leaving the decision about whether or not that
date can be reliably determined, to the user. Unlike - apparently - you, I
do not consider everyone who is not a geek to be stupid.

But bear in mind - and one wonders who the stupid one is here - that at no
point was I suggesting using System Restore to recover from an infection,
but to return to square one in the event of the cleaning causing problems.

malware has planted itself into the _RESTORE folder, it might restore
itself into activity, exactly what you DON'T want to happen.


I assume this is your English rather than that you don't know that malware
does not infiltrate _Restore. System File Protection stops that happening
and, as I said, if the malware can circumvent SFP it really has no need to
infiltrate System Restore. Any arguments along the lines of malware
infiltrating System Restore make no sense.

System restore might work ok in exactly one case - you install a new
driver or a botched Norton, and after restart, your machine gives a lot
of errors. Restoring *immediately* after the screw up, can fix this.


Spoken like someone who has System Restore disabled.

But even then, you have to be able to at least start *into* Windows. If
all you get is a blue screen and a "Windows will now shut down", your
wonderful system restore is moot. Because it can only be run from
*inside* Windows.


System Restore can be run without starting Explorer in the same way Zvi's
Togglemod works. But if you can't even get that far then, no, System Restore
is useless. But then I never remotely suggested System Restore was a cure
all.

Acronis True Image, PowerQuest Drive Image and Norton Ghost on the other
hand, can be run from *outside* Windows. This is what JAD was referring
to, when he spoke of a BACK UP.


Yes, I know. I use Drive Image. Far more people have System Restore than a
drive imaging program and of those who do, few will be making backups more
than once a week.

Got it?


Never realised how obnoxious you are.


Shane

Alright. And would you, please desist from top posting and full quoting?
Both are against the most common rules of the Usenet.


You *really* are a pillock.


Shane

"Papageno" wrote in message
t...
"JAD" wrote in message
...
attacks = anything contrary to your preaching. You think this is an
ATTACK? sad ..

SR worked for me. I don't really know how many people have found it to be
useful.

Indeed, most of the time, it does NOTHING for me (kind of like insurance).
But it worked once when I needed it.


Spot on.


Shane

(just in case the meaning escapes one of such limited horizons.....)
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pillock

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Shane" wrote in message
...
Alright. And would you, please desist from top posting and full quoting?
Both are against the most common rules of the Usenet.


You *really* are a pillock.


Shane