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Memory Usage Problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 30th 06, 04:46 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.setup
external usenet poster
 
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Default Memory Usage Problem

Hi,

I have WIN ME with all recent patches applied. I have a memory problem. As
applications are opened, memory usage goes up drastically. I first had 512
Meg installed, so yesterday I removed the old memory and added 2 512 Meg
chips. Same exact problem after doubling the memory. My applications just
suck up the memory. What applications? Norton AV, Zonealarm, Wordperfect,
AIM and AOL Radio, Mozilla and Thunderbird.

For some perspective on this, I use the exact same applications on my other
machine running WinXP and 512 Meg memory with absolutely no problems
whatsoever, so there's definitely a memory manager problem. I tried to
adjust theMaxFileCache setting in System.ini, set it at 512 and the problem
actually got worse (suggested in Q253912).

Any ideas?

Thanks
Alan
  #2  
Old January 30th 06, 04:56 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Memory Usage Problem

Norton and ZoneAlarm and AOL are three of the most complex programs that can
run on WinME (when they run at all - and don't break something in ME!)
Memory is there to be used - if it's not being used then you may as well
frame it and put it up on the wall as a trophy to stupidity.
Running Win ME with more than 512MB can be problematic at the best of
times - did you tweak the system.ini filet to allow the upgrade? What's in
the [vcache] section?
I've actually had close to that set of programs sunning in ME with only
128MB RAM, with no problems.

The question is really why you thought you needed more RAM? - unless the
Swapfile actually in use is increasing above about 20MB , then there's no
point in adding RAM, as it's not going to be doing anything truly
constructive.
--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
"Alan Ostrowitz" Alan wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have WIN ME with all recent patches applied. I have a memory problem.
As
applications are opened, memory usage goes up drastically. I first had
512
Meg installed, so yesterday I removed the old memory and added 2 512 Meg
chips. Same exact problem after doubling the memory. My applications
just
suck up the memory. What applications? Norton AV, Zonealarm,
Wordperfect,
AIM and AOL Radio, Mozilla and Thunderbird.

For some perspective on this, I use the exact same applications on my
other
machine running WinXP and 512 Meg memory with absolutely no problems
whatsoever, so there's definitely a memory manager problem. I tried to
adjust theMaxFileCache setting in System.ini, set it at 512 and the
problem
actually got worse (suggested in Q253912).

Any ideas?

Thanks
Alan



  #3  
Old January 30th 06, 04:56 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Memory Usage Problem

Alan,

Memory is there to be used so that memory is being used comes to me as no
surprise, in fact I feel pretty confident that is why you have it
installed. g If memory wasn't there your swap file would simply be
bigger.

May I recommend you read a little about memory management and what this
means in practice. A good place to start would be Jim Eshelman's page on
memory management at http://www.aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm

One final point however. Running Win Me or any Win 9x system with more
than 512MB of RAM installed is going to cause problems unless you limit
the virtual cache to no more than 512MB otherwise you will rapidly run out
of upper memory address space. For details see the KB you mention
KB253912 ""Out of Memory" Error Messages with Large Amounts of RAM
Installed" (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=253912)
--
Mike Maltby



Alan Ostrowitz Alan
wrote:

Hi,

I have WIN ME with all recent patches applied. I have a memory
problem. As applications are opened, memory usage goes up
drastically. I first had 512 Meg installed, so yesterday I removed
the old memory and added 2 512 Meg chips. Same exact problem after
doubling the memory. My applications just suck up the memory. What
applications? Norton AV, Zonealarm, Wordperfect, AIM and AOL Radio,
Mozilla and Thunderbird.

For some perspective on this, I use the exact same applications on my
other machine running WinXP and 512 Meg memory with absolutely no
problems whatsoever, so there's definitely a memory manager problem.
I tried to adjust theMaxFileCache setting in System.ini, set it at
512 and the problem actually got worse (suggested in Q253912).

Any ideas?

Thanks
Alan


  #4  
Old January 30th 06, 05:11 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Memory Usage Problem

OK, but I did have 512 installed and I kept running low, so I doubled the
memory with the same result.

I understand that memory is there to be used, but the problem is that the
memory is DEPLETED rapidly using applications that are fairly well behaved on
my XP machine.

"Mike M" wrote:

Alan,

Memory is there to be used so that memory is being used comes to me as no
surprise, in fact I feel pretty confident that is why you have it
installed. g If memory wasn't there your swap file would simply be
bigger.

May I recommend you read a little about memory management and what this
means in practice. A good place to start would be Jim Eshelman's page on
memory management at http://www.aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm

One final point however. Running Win Me or any Win 9x system with more
than 512MB of RAM installed is going to cause problems unless you limit
the virtual cache to no more than 512MB otherwise you will rapidly run out
of upper memory address space. For details see the KB you mention
KB253912 ""Out of Memory" Error Messages with Large Amounts of RAM
Installed" (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=253912)
--
Mike Maltby



Alan Ostrowitz Alan
wrote:

Hi,

I have WIN ME with all recent patches applied. I have a memory
problem. As applications are opened, memory usage goes up
drastically. I first had 512 Meg installed, so yesterday I removed
the old memory and added 2 512 Meg chips. Same exact problem after
doubling the memory. My applications just suck up the memory. What
applications? Norton AV, Zonealarm, Wordperfect, AIM and AOL Radio,
Mozilla and Thunderbird.

For some perspective on this, I use the exact same applications on my
other machine running WinXP and 512 Meg memory with absolutely no
problems whatsoever, so there's definitely a memory manager problem.
I tried to adjust theMaxFileCache setting in System.ini, set it at
512 and the problem actually got worse (suggested in Q253912).

Any ideas?

Thanks
Alan



  #5  
Old January 30th 06, 05:46 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Memory Usage Problem

"Running low" Memory is there to be used so if you don't want to use it
and prefer to use a swap file why not go for 64MB and give the 512MB to
someone who really needs it!

I'm sorry but you really do need to explain what real problems you are
experiencing and forget all about memory usage until perhaps you've read
up a bit on memory management.

I think I can fairly confidently say that any problems you are
experiencing are almost certainly nothing to do with memory usage or
management. Your problems are far more likely to be due to resource
problems, a very finite resource that affects Win 9x systems due to their
legacy nature and XP and other NT kernel systems not at all. Problems
exacerbated by running malware sold you my Symantec and AOL.
--
Mike Maltby



Alan Ostrowitz wrote:

OK, but I did have 512 installed and I kept running low, so I doubled
the memory with the same result.

I understand that memory is there to be used, but the problem is that
the memory is DEPLETED rapidly using applications that are fairly
well behaved on my XP machine.


  #6  
Old January 30th 06, 05:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Memory Usage Problem

Actually, Mike, I used AOL in ME for years, with nary a problem - so I doubt
that it's the cause here.
AOL did at least stop a lot of the b/s that gets installed in XP from
getting into ME - probably because it was more costly to rewrite it for that
purpose
Norton, OTOH, is almost certainly the major factor - and then factor in
ZoneAlarm as well (which, if it's the pro version may have side-apps
conflicting with AOL's compulsory add-ons.....)

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
"Mike M" wrote in message
...
"Running low" Memory is there to be used so if you don't want to use it
and prefer to use a swap file why not go for 64MB and give the 512MB to
someone who really needs it!

I'm sorry but you really do need to explain what real problems you are
experiencing and forget all about memory usage until perhaps you've read
up a bit on memory management.

I think I can fairly confidently say that any problems you are
experiencing are almost certainly nothing to do with memory usage or
management. Your problems are far more likely to be due to resource
problems, a very finite resource that affects Win 9x systems due to their
legacy nature and XP and other NT kernel systems not at all. Problems
exacerbated by running malware sold you my Symantec and AOL.
--
Mike Maltby



Alan Ostrowitz wrote:

OK, but I did have 512 installed and I kept running low, so I doubled
the memory with the same result.

I understand that memory is there to be used, but the problem is that
the memory is DEPLETED rapidly using applications that are fairly
well behaved on my XP machine.




  #7  
Old January 30th 06, 06:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Memory Usage Problem

Noel,

Fair enough, its just I thought I recalled from a recent post that AOL was
pretty heavy on resources meaning that with AOL running a user might be
pretty limited as to what else they could be doing. Incidentally I
recently found that running ZA conflicted with running AOL but that was on
a dial-up connection where the user was running 98SE.
--
Mike Maltby



Noel Paton wrote:

Actually, Mike, I used AOL in ME for years, with nary a problem - so
I doubt that it's the cause here.
AOL did at least stop a lot of the b/s that gets installed in XP from
getting into ME - probably because it was more costly to rewrite it
for that purpose
Norton, OTOH, is almost certainly the major factor - and then factor
in ZoneAlarm as well (which, if it's the pro version may have
side-apps conflicting with AOL's compulsory add-ons.....)


  #8  
Old January 30th 06, 06:07 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Memory Usage Problem

As far as the real problems, I load a few old DOS programs (which don't use
very much memory, I think each is limited to like 64K), automatically load
NAV & Zonealarm, then load AOL Radio. I note memory useage on the system
meter that comes with Win ME. Everything is in the green. Then I add
Wordperfect, it drops into the "yellow", and if I continue as, for example,
adding Adobe Acrobat, remaining memory goes into the "red zone" and I receive
the error message that "There is not enough memory available to run this
program. Quit one or more programs and then try again." As I close down
programs, memory returns back into the "green" (but never back to where it
started).

How's that for a description.

By the way, I just read Windows 98 & WinME Memory Management as you
suggested. I did try setting the maximum VCache at 512 and, in fact, last
week before I added additional memory I only had 512 MB in the machine.
Adding the additional 512 did not resolve the problem and, as suggested in
the article, by playing with the VCache settings actually exacerbated the
situation.

Thanks
Alan

"Mike M" wrote:

"Running low" Memory is there to be used so if you don't want to use it
and prefer to use a swap file why not go for 64MB and give the 512MB to
someone who really needs it!

I'm sorry but you really do need to explain what real problems you are
experiencing and forget all about memory usage until perhaps you've read
up a bit on memory management.

I think I can fairly confidently say that any problems you are
experiencing are almost certainly nothing to do with memory usage or
management. Your problems are far more likely to be due to resource
problems, a very finite resource that affects Win 9x systems due to their
legacy nature and XP and other NT kernel systems not at all. Problems
exacerbated by running malware sold you my Symantec and AOL.
--
Mike Maltby



Alan Ostrowitz wrote:

OK, but I did have 512 installed and I kept running low, so I doubled
the memory with the same result.

I understand that memory is there to be used, but the problem is that
the memory is DEPLETED rapidly using applications that are fairly
well behaved on my XP machine.



  #9  
Old January 30th 06, 06:31 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Memory Usage Problem

Alan,

For the umpteenth time please FORGET about memory. Concentrate on the
problems you are seeing and don't let yourself be diverted. Don't waste
your time monitoring memory usage IT MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Until you
can accept that you are going to get nowhere. Memory is there to be used.
Once again I have to say if you don't want to use the memory take it and
give it away or hang it on the wall and look at it in all its pristine
glory.

Instead use Win Me's system monitor and look at your resource usage.
Resources are finite and cannot be extended. See Jim Eshelman's "SYSTEM
RESOURCES FAQ" (http://www.aumha.org/win4/a/resource.htm). Win Me like
all Win 9x systems cannot run an infinite number of applications and
having AOL, Symantec's resource hungry cr$p, Zone Alarm, WordPerfect and
Adobe Acrobat all open at the same time is going to suck down those rare
resources.

Forget about memory usage, once again it has little or nothing to do with
any of the problems you might be experiencing.
--
Mike Maltby



Alan Ostrowitz wrote:

As far as the real problems, I load a few old DOS programs (which
don't use very much memory, I think each is limited to like 64K),
automatically load NAV & Zonealarm, then load AOL Radio. I note
memory useage on the system meter that comes with Win ME. Everything
is in the green. Then I add Wordperfect, it drops into the "yellow",
and if I continue as, for example, adding Adobe Acrobat, remaining
memory goes into the "red zone" and I receive the error message that
"There is not enough memory available to run this program. Quit one
or more programs and then try again." As I close down programs,
memory returns back into the "green" (but never back to where it
started).

How's that for a description.

By the way, I just read Windows 98 & WinME Memory Management as you
suggested. I did try setting the maximum VCache at 512 and, in fact,
last week before I added additional memory I only had 512 MB in the
machine. Adding the additional 512 did not resolve the problem and,
as suggested in the article, by playing with the VCache settings
actually exacerbated the situation.

Thanks
Alan

"Mike M" wrote:

"Running low" Memory is there to be used so if you don't want to
use it and prefer to use a swap file why not go for 64MB and give
the 512MB to someone who really needs it!

I'm sorry but you really do need to explain what real problems you
are experiencing and forget all about memory usage until perhaps
you've read up a bit on memory management.

I think I can fairly confidently say that any problems you are
experiencing are almost certainly nothing to do with memory usage or
management. Your problems are far more likely to be due to resource
problems, a very finite resource that affects Win 9x systems due to
their legacy nature and XP and other NT kernel systems not at all.
Problems exacerbated by running malware sold you my Symantec and AOL.
--
Mike Maltby



Alan Ostrowitz wrote:

OK, but I did have 512 installed and I kept running low, so I
doubled the memory with the same result.

I understand that memory is there to be used, but the problem is
that the memory is DEPLETED rapidly using applications that are
fairly well behaved on my XP machine.


  #10  
Old January 30th 06, 07:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Memory Usage Problem

That's not a memory problem - that's a resource problem!!
http://www.aumha.org/win4/a/resource.htm

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
"Alan Ostrowitz" wrote in message
...
As far as the real problems, I load a few old DOS programs (which don't
use
very much memory, I think each is limited to like 64K), automatically load
NAV & Zonealarm, then load AOL Radio. I note memory useage on the system
meter that comes with Win ME. Everything is in the green. Then I add
Wordperfect, it drops into the "yellow", and if I continue as, for
example,
adding Adobe Acrobat, remaining memory goes into the "red zone" and I
receive
the error message that "There is not enough memory available to run this
program. Quit one or more programs and then try again." As I close down
programs, memory returns back into the "green" (but never back to where it
started).

How's that for a description.

By the way, I just read Windows 98 & WinME Memory Management as you
suggested. I did try setting the maximum VCache at 512 and, in fact, last
week before I added additional memory I only had 512 MB in the machine.
Adding the additional 512 did not resolve the problem and, as suggested in
the article, by playing with the VCache settings actually exacerbated the
situation.

Thanks
Alan

"Mike M" wrote:

"Running low" Memory is there to be used so if you don't want to use it
and prefer to use a swap file why not go for 64MB and give the 512MB to
someone who really needs it!

I'm sorry but you really do need to explain what real problems you are
experiencing and forget all about memory usage until perhaps you've read
up a bit on memory management.

I think I can fairly confidently say that any problems you are
experiencing are almost certainly nothing to do with memory usage or
management. Your problems are far more likely to be due to resource
problems, a very finite resource that affects Win 9x systems due to their
legacy nature and XP and other NT kernel systems not at all. Problems
exacerbated by running malware sold you my Symantec and AOL.
--
Mike Maltby



Alan Ostrowitz wrote:

OK, but I did have 512 installed and I kept running low, so I doubled
the memory with the same result.

I understand that memory is there to be used, but the problem is that
the memory is DEPLETED rapidly using applications that are fairly
well behaved on my XP machine.





 




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