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Problem with Online Windows Updates for W98SE



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 20th 04, 11:21 PM
Papa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Problem with Online Windows Updates for W98SE

I just finished building a desktop PC consisting of an AMD K6-2/450 MHZ CPU,
256 MB of RAM, a CD-ROM drive, and two Western Digital hard drives of 6 GB
each.

After building this computer and collecting the necessary device drivers, I
installed W98 first edition and then updated it to W98 second edition. After
that I used my copy of the Microsoft Windows Security Update CD of February
2004. No problems of any kind appeared.

Then I went to the Microsoft Windows Update webpage to download and install
any remaining critical updates or Windows updates. During the download and
install process the computer crashed with the following error message:

Error loading user.exe
You must reinstall Windows

Almost immediately after seeing this message, the system powered off.

I investigated this error message, and found that it could be caused by a
damaged DDEML.DLL file, so I extracted another copy of it from my original
W98SE CD. That did not help.

Thinking that possibly the Microsoft Windows Security Update CD of February
2004 was defective, I fdisked my system drive, removed the partition,
created a new partition, formatted it, then reinstalled W98, followed by the
installation of W98SE. This time I did not use the Security CD, but instead
went to the Windows Update webpage again and began downloading and
installing the critical updates.

Again the system crashed just like before, so I went through the entire
process once more of repartitioning, reformatting, and reinstalling W98 and
W98SE. This time I ONLY used the Security CD and DID NOT download/install
any updates from the Microsoft Windows Update webpage.

The result? No crashes, no BSOD, all devices are OK with no yellow
exclamation marks, and the system runs perfectly - even after repeatedly
shutting the system down and powering it back up.

Anyone have any ideas as to the cause of these crashes? Could there be a
conflict between the data on the Security CD and the data at the Windows
Update webpage?

Thank you.


  #2  
Old November 21st 04, 12:35 AM
PCR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(1) I don't know, is there a cure at...
http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/troubleshoot/
But that site was tough to look at, last I looked.

(2) Make a full system backup, before trying Windows Update again...

Once you have a functioning system, especially one close to a clean
install, do a full system backup. If you have multiple partitions, I
guess a backup is a bit more complex. It depends upon the ties between
the Registry & the other partitions, as to whether they must be backed
up concurrently. Also, if you've changed the hardware since the backup,
you may need to change it back before a restore.

http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/index.html Backup & partitioning strategy
http://home.wanadoo.nl/geurt/home.html Extended Operating System Loader
http://powerquest.com/driveimage/ Drive Image
http://www.acronis.com/products/trueimage/ TrueImage
http://www.arjsoftware.com ARJ Archiver
http://www.betterbackup.com/ Retrospect CD Backup
http://www.bootitng.com/ 's BootIt NG, has a variety of backup
capabilities: Copy to HDD, or Image to HDD or to CD. (TBIView, freely
downloadable, can retrieve individual files from an Image.)
Shrink/expand your partitions without data loss. Multi-boot, if you
dare. Free, run from floppy, but pay up as I did if satisfied. To
install & use beyond 30 days, $34.95.
http://www.cdrfaq.org/ CD R/W Backup
http://www.cyberiapc.com/backup.htm MyOwnBackup (MOB) (Free)
http://www.han-soft.com/habt.php Auto Backup (30-day free trial)
http://www.hp.com/cgi-bin/cposupport...&p=hpcdwriter2
Simple Backup
http://www.karenware.com/ PtReplicator (Free)
http://www.lifesaverbackup.com/
http://www.mvps.org/links.html Should have good info
http://www.pcmag.com/ Lots & lots of sturdy downloads. There is a $20
yearly charge now.
http://www.powerquest.com/partitionmagic Partition Magic
http://www.ranish.com/part/ Ranish Partition Manager
http://www.rescue-me.net/gold.html
http://www.simtel.net/pub/dl/58307.shtml Backups
http://www.stompinc.com/bump/bump_details.phtml?stp Backup MyPC
http://www.thirdstar.net/thirdstar_datarecovery.htm Data recovery
http://www.tomsterdam.com/ BU process, performance, etc.
http://www.v-com.com/product/pc_ind.html Partition Commander
http://www.veritas.com Backup apps
http://www.xxcopy.com/ Detailed Procedure Copy (Free)
http://www.zeleps.com/ Partition re-sizer (Free)

All gathered at this site. Whichever you choose, approach it carefully
and verify all is well. After making a copy, run Scandisk/Defrag on it.
If it's an Image, use it's verify option; perhaps, restore it and do a
Scandisk/Defrag.

http://www.pchelpandconsulting.com/links/windows.html WinDrvExpert
http://www.jermar.com/wdrvbck.htm WinDrvBckup free version

Those last two supposedly back up all currently installed drivers, such
that they can be reinstalled. I never tried it but have seen a favorable
report.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Papa" wrote in message
...
| I just finished building a desktop PC consisting of an AMD K6-2/450
MHZ CPU,
| 256 MB of RAM, a CD-ROM drive, and two Western Digital hard drives of
6 GB
| each.
|
| After building this computer and collecting the necessary device
drivers, I
| installed W98 first edition and then updated it to W98 second edition.
After
| that I used my copy of the Microsoft Windows Security Update CD of
February
| 2004. No problems of any kind appeared.
|
| Then I went to the Microsoft Windows Update webpage to download and
install
| any remaining critical updates or Windows updates. During the download
and
| install process the computer crashed with the following error message:
|
| Error loading user.exe
| You must reinstall Windows
|
| Almost immediately after seeing this message, the system powered off.
|
| I investigated this error message, and found that it could be caused
by a
| damaged DDEML.DLL file, so I extracted another copy of it from my
original
| W98SE CD. That did not help.
|
| Thinking that possibly the Microsoft Windows Security Update CD of
February
| 2004 was defective, I fdisked my system drive, removed the partition,
| created a new partition, formatted it, then reinstalled W98, followed
by the
| installation of W98SE. This time I did not use the Security CD, but
instead
| went to the Windows Update webpage again and began downloading and
| installing the critical updates.
|
| Again the system crashed just like before, so I went through the
entire
| process once more of repartitioning, reformatting, and reinstalling
W98 and
| W98SE. This time I ONLY used the Security CD and DID NOT
download/install
| any updates from the Microsoft Windows Update webpage.
|
| The result? No crashes, no BSOD, all devices are OK with no yellow
| exclamation marks, and the system runs perfectly - even after
repeatedly
| shutting the system down and powering it back up.
|
| Anyone have any ideas as to the cause of these crashes? Could there be
a
| conflict between the data on the Security CD and the data at the
Windows
| Update webpage?
|
| Thank you.
|
|


  #3  
Old November 21st 04, 01:10 AM
Gary S. Terhune
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sounds to me like the *only* time you have any problem is when downloading and
installing from the Windows Update site. Doesn't matter whether you've used the
Security Updates CD or not.
My guess is that there's *one* update that when installing causes this crash,
and that it's where a restart is required that it occurs. I can't find anything
in the KB or elsewhere to specifically match your issue, but what I would do is
to go to Windows Update and download updates one at a time. This may prevent the
problem altogether, or if it doesn't, may at least narrow down the
possibilities.

Also, you should use a "Clean Boot" session to do the updating. Run MSCONFIG
from the Start\Run box, choose Selective Startup, then uncheck all items except
Win.ini and System.ini. Restart your system, then delete everything in the TEMP
folder, then use Internet Settings to delete all Temporary Internet Files and
Cookies. Then, try Windows Updates again.

Also, there is a newsgroup specifically for Windows Updates issues at:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof....windowsupdate

Question: When you say you update to Windows 98 SE after installing 98 ("Gold")
is that because you only have the Win98Win98SE Update CD? The one MS
distributed for ~$20? Or is you 98SE CD a full install version (Full or
Upgrade)?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"Papa" wrote in message
...
I just finished building a desktop PC consisting of an AMD K6-2/450 MHZ CPU,
256 MB of RAM, a CD-ROM drive, and two Western Digital hard drives of 6 GB
each.

After building this computer and collecting the necessary device drivers, I
installed W98 first edition and then updated it to W98 second edition. After
that I used my copy of the Microsoft Windows Security Update CD of February
2004. No problems of any kind appeared.

Then I went to the Microsoft Windows Update webpage to download and install
any remaining critical updates or Windows updates. During the download and
install process the computer crashed with the following error message:

Error loading user.exe
You must reinstall Windows

Almost immediately after seeing this message, the system powered off.

I investigated this error message, and found that it could be caused by a
damaged DDEML.DLL file, so I extracted another copy of it from my original
W98SE CD. That did not help.

Thinking that possibly the Microsoft Windows Security Update CD of February
2004 was defective, I fdisked my system drive, removed the partition,
created a new partition, formatted it, then reinstalled W98, followed by the
installation of W98SE. This time I did not use the Security CD, but instead
went to the Windows Update webpage again and began downloading and
installing the critical updates.

Again the system crashed just like before, so I went through the entire
process once more of repartitioning, reformatting, and reinstalling W98 and
W98SE. This time I ONLY used the Security CD and DID NOT download/install
any updates from the Microsoft Windows Update webpage.

The result? No crashes, no BSOD, all devices are OK with no yellow
exclamation marks, and the system runs perfectly - even after repeatedly
shutting the system down and powering it back up.

Anyone have any ideas as to the cause of these crashes? Could there be a
conflict between the data on the Security CD and the data at the Windows
Update webpage?

Thank you.



  #4  
Old November 21st 04, 02:15 AM
Papa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks Gary:

Yes, I used my $20 Update CD to get from W98 FE to W98SE.

And you are a good detective when you said "My guess is that there's *one*
update that when installing causes this crash, and that it's where a restart
is required that it occurs.". That was exactly when it happened every time,
during the restart.

I'll follow your suggestions and post the results tomorrow. Too many
football games going on right now. ;)


  #5  
Old November 21st 04, 02:18 AM
Papa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wow PCR, you spent some time typing up some very good suggestions. I really
appreciate your effort, and will give them a try. Thanks again. I'll post
the outcome.


  #6  
Old November 21st 04, 06:56 AM
PCR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You are welcome. Keep us informed.

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Papa" wrote in message
...
| Wow PCR, you spent some time typing up some very good suggestions. I
really
| appreciate your effort, and will give them a try. Thanks again. I'll
post
| the outcome.
|
|


  #7  
Old November 21st 04, 05:46 PM
Papa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi PCR, Gary, and anyone else interested. Here are the results:

The bottom line is, I was able to install all online Critical and Windows
non-critical updates (with one exception), did not encounter any errors
(with one exception), and my PC is running just fine. As for these 2
problems, please see my questions about them in paragraph 5.

I followed Gary's suggestion of first doing a clean boot. Then I began
installing the online updates. To start with, there was a list of 6 Critical
Updates and 45 Windows non-critical updates. Of the 45 Windows updates, one
was the Euro Conversion Tool and 34 more were the multilanguage features. I
did not install any of them because I don't need them. So actually I only
installed 10 of the 45 windows updates, and blocked the rest by using the
Personalize Windows Update tool.

My first step was to install, one at a time, each Critical Update. These
updates included KB834707, KB837009, KB833989, KB 870669, KB840315, and
816093, None of these installs caused a problem.

Then I began installing the non-critical Windows Updates, one at a time. The
first one I tried installing was the DirectX 9.0c End-User Runtime update.
Sometime during the download or install process, I got the BSOD, but was
able to continue by hitting a keyboard key. Then a little later I got
another BSOD, hit a keyboard key, and was brought to my regular desktop
screen with the Windows Update page gone. I went back into the Windows
Update page and checked the Installation History, which listed a status of
"In Progress" for this DirectX 9.0c update.

Does this mean that the DirectX 9.0c End-User Runtime update is not fully
installed? If so, how do I get it installed completely? And why did the BSOD
appear during the download/install process?

Other than that, the other 9 Windows non-critical updates went through the
download/install process without any glitches. After installing the
Microsoft .NET Framework version 1.1 update and restarting, two more
Critical Updates appeared in the list. They were KB873374 and the Microsoft
..NET Framework 1.1 SP 1. As with the other Critical Updates, I installed
them one at a time before continuing with the remaining Windows non-critical
updates.

After completing these installations, I tried all of the shutdown options
(shutdown, restart, restart in MS-DOS mode) and also tried Safe Mode. The
only glitch that occurred was that after getting into MS-DOS mode, the
system just hung when I typed "exit". I used Ctrl-Alt-Del to get back the
system, then went into MS-DOS mode a second time, and the EXIT command
worked.

Thanks to both of you for your expertise and willing help. Much appreciated.


  #8  
Old November 21st 04, 07:53 PM
Papa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Follow Up:

Later I went to the Microsoft web page, www.microsoft.com, and downloaded
and installed the DirectX 9.0c End-User Runtime update. It downloaded and
installed OK, no errors, but the Installation History (even after a re-boot)
still says "In Progress".

Regards.


  #9  
Old November 21st 04, 08:36 PM
PA Bear
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

To assure a clean install, your anti-virus application should be disabled
and all other running processes closed before installing anything, including
Windows Updates.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)

Posting and You
http://www.trials-shack.co.uk/posting.html

Papa wrote:
I just finished building a desktop PC consisting of an AMD K6-2/450 MHZ
CPU,
256 MB of RAM, a CD-ROM drive, and two Western Digital hard drives of 6 GB
each.

After building this computer and collecting the necessary device drivers,
I
installed W98 first edition and then updated it to W98 second edition.
After
that I used my copy of the Microsoft Windows Security Update CD of
February
2004. No problems of any kind appeared.

Then I went to the Microsoft Windows Update webpage to download and
install
any remaining critical updates or Windows updates. During the download and
install process the computer crashed with the following error message:

Error loading user.exe
You must reinstall Windows

Almost immediately after seeing this message, the system powered off.

I investigated this error message, and found that it could be caused by a
damaged DDEML.DLL file, so I extracted another copy of it from my original
W98SE CD. That did not help.

Thinking that possibly the Microsoft Windows Security Update CD of
February
2004 was defective, I fdisked my system drive, removed the partition,
created a new partition, formatted it, then reinstalled W98, followed by
the
installation of W98SE. This time I did not use the Security CD, but
instead
went to the Windows Update webpage again and began downloading and
installing the critical updates.

Again the system crashed just like before, so I went through the entire
process once more of repartitioning, reformatting, and reinstalling W98
and
W98SE. This time I ONLY used the Security CD and DID NOT download/install
any updates from the Microsoft Windows Update webpage.

The result? No crashes, no BSOD, all devices are OK with no yellow
exclamation marks, and the system runs perfectly - even after repeatedly
shutting the system down and powering it back up.

Anyone have any ideas as to the cause of these crashes? Could there be a
conflict between the data on the Security CD and the data at the Windows
Update webpage?

Thank you.


  #10  
Old November 21st 04, 09:30 PM
Papa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks PA Bear. AV and other packages all disabled, closed, or not yet
installed.

Regards.


 




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