OS Fault or Hardware Failure?...(very descriptive)

Sorry for such a long post but I am trying to be as thorough and
descriptive as possible.

I must say that I am impressed with this group, reguarding the level of
expertise and willingness to help. I am new to this group but am fairly
knowledgable of the ME operating system. However, this problem has me
stumped and I hope that someone may be able to help me, as this PC is
crucial to my job. I am afraid that the following problem may be a result
of hardware failure, but this is out of my area of expertise.


System Info:

Compaq Presario Model 5WV232 - all hardware is the original equiptment
AMD Duron 700mhz Processor
64mb 100mhz RAM
20gb HD
8mb NVIDIA TNT2 AGP Graphics Card
250W Power Supply
Windows Millenium Edition OS
No external or add-on components
No programs set to load at startup


Background:

This PC was bought new in 2000, then given to me by my girlfriend about 6
months ago. Before I received it, it had rarely been used and had spent the
majority of its life in its original packaging. After receiving it, I gave
it the works, driver/software updates, Microsoft updates, complete
virus/spyware scan (using latest McAfee/AdAware), regscan, registry
cleanup, defrag, thorough scandisk, trash clean-up, added the latest
ZoneAlarm Pro, tore down the hardware & cleaned all of the dust from it and
the case, then made sure that all of the hardware/cables were secure...that
was six months ago. Since then, I do pretty much all of the above on a
weekly to bi-weekly basis.

Problem:

Until Wednesday, my PC worked great, no errors or crashes whatsoever.
Tuesday night, I shut the PC down without incident and the next morning
when I attempted to start it up, I could only get to the initial "Compaq"
screen but no further, nor would it respond to any of the function keys.

Since then, I can occasionally get it to completely boot. Sometimes it
will, sometimes it won't. When it does not completely boot, I can only get
as far as the Compaq screen and sometimes the "Starting Windows..." screen
(Windows ME logo screen was disabled by choice). During startup on a failed
boot, I can hear the Floppy & CDROM drives initializing and then the hard
drive as it starts but it will only make it as far as the first short set
of "reading" noises and then nothing.

After fighting with it for about 20 minutes to an hour, I can occasionly
get the system to fully load. However, after loading, sometimes it will
COMPLETELY freeze if I do so much as right-click or open a folder on my
desktop immediately after the OS has completely loaded.

Here is the funny thing about it; when the system manages to completely
load Windows and doesn't freeze after the first couple of actions, I can
start a program or two (such as the internet dialer and then Xnews) and use
them for hours and hours without the first problem. I can use all of the
currently running program's functions (no matter how memory absorbing) and
it will run fine. However, if I try to start another program while one is
already running, or closing the running program and then starting another,
it will freeze either as soon as the icon is clicked or as the program is
loading. After freezing, I have to hold the power button and then it may
take another 20 minutes to an hour to successfully boot up again.


Please Note:

By "freezing", I mean that the screen will freeze in its current state,
without an error message, without an error beep, without any warning
whatsoever. It will not respond to anything at all (mouse, keyboard,
ctrl+alt+del, function keys, etc...).

No changes were made between the time the computer acted normal and the
time the problem began. The problem started overnight.

The PC continues to act this way even using safe-mode, emergency boot disk,
and/or selective startup. Also note that the PC seems to start slightly
easier & run slightly better after remaining off for several hours.
However, there is no noticable heat, even after hours of continuous use,
from any of the hardware components and the system fans all work perfectly.


Troubleshooting actions I have taken so far:

I have run scandisk (plus surface scan), scanreg, anti-virus scan,
spyware/adware scan, & registry clean. All came back clean.

System restore has reaped no results.

I have run a memory error checking utility and tried a memory optimizer in
order to try to isolate a possible memory related hardware failure or
settings problem. When using a system monitor, the memory used is well
within normal and acceptable ranges, even under a normal load. (Virtual
memory is set to allow the system to automaticly optimize itself). Keep in
mind though, this problem occurs suddenly. Therefore, the memory utility,
optimizer, and/or monitor may function properly without error but they are
prone to "freezing" as with everything else if more than one or two other
tasks are performed. Therefore, I consider these memory tests and
observations to be inconclusive because I can't put the system under a
considerable or heavy load without it locking up.

I have checked for possible hardware conflicts and hardware driver
errors...both are reporting no problem.

I do not have (or have ever allowed) any startup programs to start with
Windows. I start everything manually as needed.

I have run extensive tests on my NVIDIA Graphics Card & also on DirectX but
no problems. However, the graphics card is slightly warm to the touch but I
would think that this is normal?

I have used logged boot to create the bootlog.txt file but upon examining
it, all of the needed startup files, drivers, VXDs, fonts, etc... are
loading successfully with none missing.

I have checked for dust and bad connections within the case. Both system
fans are operating properly and I noted that the heat sink above the
processor is not even warm to the touch.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


To me, it would seem as though I may be having sporadic memory-related
hardware failure. It almost seems that this may be a heat related problem
as well, as the system works better after remaining off for several
hours...but I may be wrong on both counts. Is there something I may be
missing here?

In a way, I almost hope that this is an inexpensive hardware related issue
because my dog chewed up my Windows ME system disks.

All of my knowledge relates primarily to the OS itself. I know little more
than the basics about hardware and I have tried everything that I know to
do. I would greatly appreciate any detailed suggestions or insight that
anyone may have.

My sincere thanks to anyone who may be able to help.


~Dalamar

My first suggestion would be to GET RID OF the 'memory optimizer'. They are
ALL - without exception - snake-oil products!
Most will also cause exactly the symptoms you are seeing - although not
usually so severe.

WRT the rest, this does look like it's most probably a RAM issue. Which
RAMtester did you use? - for how long? One pass is not enough to test a
system properly, you need to stress it a little.
Try Docmemory2 from www.simmtester.com - create the boot disk, and then run
it overnight to see what it reports.
Check your BIOS settings - some BIOS tend to be slightly over-ambitious on
the speed settings for the RAM, and it can be worth slowing it down
(particularly on low-cost systems, where the RAM is often lower-grade stuff)
if the settings are available.

That said, this machine is of the right age to have the 'exploding caps'
problem. Inspect the motherboard closely, looking at the electrolytic
capacitors - are the caps domed at all? is there any sign of leakage around
the base of the capacitor? If so, this may be the cause of your problem, and
if so, the only solutions are either to replace the capacitors, or replace
the motherboard.

HTH
--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Dalamar" wrote in message
t...
Sorry for such a long post but I am trying to be as thorough and
descriptive as possible.

I must say that I am impressed with this group, reguarding the level of
expertise and willingness to help. I am new to this group but am fairly
knowledgable of the ME operating system. However, this problem has me
stumped and I hope that someone may be able to help me, as this PC is
crucial to my job. I am afraid that the following problem may be a result
of hardware failure, but this is out of my area of expertise.


System Info:

Compaq Presario Model 5WV232 - all hardware is the original equiptment
AMD Duron 700mhz Processor
64mb 100mhz RAM
20gb HD
8mb NVIDIA TNT2 AGP Graphics Card
250W Power Supply
Windows Millenium Edition OS
No external or add-on components
No programs set to load at startup


Background:

This PC was bought new in 2000, then given to me by my girlfriend about 6
months ago. Before I received it, it had rarely been used and had spent
the
majority of its life in its original packaging. After receiving it, I gave
it the works, driver/software updates, Microsoft updates, complete
virus/spyware scan (using latest McAfee/AdAware), regscan, registry
cleanup, defrag, thorough scandisk, trash clean-up, added the latest
ZoneAlarm Pro, tore down the hardware & cleaned all of the dust from it
and
the case, then made sure that all of the hardware/cables were
secure...that
was six months ago. Since then, I do pretty much all of the above on a
weekly to bi-weekly basis.

Problem:

Until Wednesday, my PC worked great, no errors or crashes whatsoever.
Tuesday night, I shut the PC down without incident and the next morning
when I attempted to start it up, I could only get to the initial "Compaq"
screen but no further, nor would it respond to any of the function keys.

Since then, I can occasionally get it to completely boot. Sometimes it
will, sometimes it won't. When it does not completely boot, I can only get
as far as the Compaq screen and sometimes the "Starting Windows..." screen
(Windows ME logo screen was disabled by choice). During startup on a
failed
boot, I can hear the Floppy & CDROM drives initializing and then the hard
drive as it starts but it will only make it as far as the first short set
of "reading" noises and then nothing.

After fighting with it for about 20 minutes to an hour, I can occasionly
get the system to fully load. However, after loading, sometimes it will
COMPLETELY freeze if I do so much as right-click or open a folder on my
desktop immediately after the OS has completely loaded.

Here is the funny thing about it; when the system manages to completely
load Windows and doesn't freeze after the first couple of actions, I can
start a program or two (such as the internet dialer and then Xnews) and
use
them for hours and hours without the first problem. I can use all of the
currently running program's functions (no matter how memory absorbing) and
it will run fine. However, if I try to start another program while one is
already running, or closing the running program and then starting another,
it will freeze either as soon as the icon is clicked or as the program is
loading. After freezing, I have to hold the power button and then it may
take another 20 minutes to an hour to successfully boot up again.


Please Note:

By "freezing", I mean that the screen will freeze in its current state,
without an error message, without an error beep, without any warning
whatsoever. It will not respond to anything at all (mouse, keyboard,
ctrl+alt+del, function keys, etc...).

No changes were made between the time the computer acted normal and the
time the problem began. The problem started overnight.

The PC continues to act this way even using safe-mode, emergency boot
disk,
and/or selective startup. Also note that the PC seems to start slightly
easier & run slightly better after remaining off for several hours.
However, there is no noticable heat, even after hours of continuous use,
from any of the hardware components and the system fans all work
perfectly.


Troubleshooting actions I have taken so far:

I have run scandisk (plus surface scan), scanreg, anti-virus scan,
spyware/adware scan, & registry clean. All came back clean.

System restore has reaped no results.

I have run a memory error checking utility and tried a memory optimizer in
order to try to isolate a possible memory related hardware failure or
settings problem. When using a system monitor, the memory used is well
within normal and acceptable ranges, even under a normal load. (Virtual
memory is set to allow the system to automaticly optimize itself). Keep in
mind though, this problem occurs suddenly. Therefore, the memory utility,
optimizer, and/or monitor may function properly without error but they are
prone to "freezing" as with everything else if more than one or two other
tasks are performed. Therefore, I consider these memory tests and
observations to be inconclusive because I can't put the system under a
considerable or heavy load without it locking up.

I have checked for possible hardware conflicts and hardware driver
errors...both are reporting no problem.

I do not have (or have ever allowed) any startup programs to start with
Windows. I start everything manually as needed.

I have run extensive tests on my NVIDIA Graphics Card & also on DirectX
but
no problems. However, the graphics card is slightly warm to the touch but
I
would think that this is normal?

I have used logged boot to create the bootlog.txt file but upon examining
it, all of the needed startup files, drivers, VXDs, fonts, etc... are
loading successfully with none missing.

I have checked for dust and bad connections within the case. Both system
fans are operating properly and I noted that the heat sink above the
processor is not even warm to the touch.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


To me, it would seem as though I may be having sporadic memory-related
hardware failure. It almost seems that this may be a heat related problem
as well, as the system works better after remaining off for several
hours...but I may be wrong on both counts. Is there something I may be
missing here?

In a way, I almost hope that this is an inexpensive hardware related issue
because my dog chewed up my Windows ME system disks.

All of my knowledge relates primarily to the OS itself. I know little more
than the basics about hardware and I have tried everything that I know to
do. I would greatly appreciate any detailed suggestions or insight that
anyone may have.

My sincere thanks to anyone who may be able to help.


~Dalamar

First of all Noel, thank you for your help and for such a quick reply.

I totally agree with you in reguards to Memory Optimizers. It came with PC
Tune-Up 2004 which by all means is an excellent program except for the
addition of a mem optimizer. I only used it in order to attempt to "reap"
any sort of different behavior from my system (whether good or bad). At
64mb they all cause a "Low System Resources" error anyways.

I forget the name of the RAM tester that I use (if I go look, the PC will
lock up). It is from a reputable source however. I left it running for 5
hours monitoring 40 out of 64mb (as suggested in the ReadMe file) without
any error messages. I haven't let it run all night but I will try tonight.
Although I am afraid when I turn the monitor on in the morning, the screen
will be frozen but I will try.

You mentioned running it from a boot disk. The one I am using doesn't
mention that. I ran it straight from the hard drive. Is there a difference?
If so, just out of curiosity, what is it?

As for BIOS, would it be possible for the BIOS settings to suddenly effect
the PC differently even though no known changes have been made to it or the
hardware? Is it possible for these settings to change without one's
knowledge? It's been a while since I have been into the BIOS menu. Is it F9
to access it during system startup?

Do you have any detailed reference material from the net for BIOS settings
akin to an "optimizing BIOS settings" or a "what's what" guide? I have
Googled but the PC just froze up again.

I scanned all of the capacitors with a magnifying glass but the tops of all
are flat and smooth. No fluid leakage either.

Sorry for all of the questions but my access to the internet is limited
because IE crashes when I use it. I feel fortunate to have Xnews up and
running.

Thanks for taking the time to give a guy a hand with an irritating problem.

Dalamar








"Noel Paton" wrote in
:

My first suggestion would be to GET RID OF the 'memory optimizer'.
They are ALL - without exception - snake-oil products!
Most will also cause exactly the symptoms you are seeing - although
not usually so severe.

WRT the rest, this does look like it's most probably a RAM issue.
Which RAMtester did you use? - for how long? One pass is not enough to
test a system properly, you need to stress it a little.
Try Docmemory2 from www.simmtester.com - create the boot disk, and
then run it overnight to see what it reports.
Check your BIOS settings - some BIOS tend to be slightly
over-ambitious on the speed settings for the RAM, and it can be worth
slowing it down (particularly on low-cost systems, where the RAM is
often lower-grade stuff) if the settings are available.

That said, this machine is of the right age to have the 'exploding
caps' problem. Inspect the motherboard closely, looking at the
electrolytic capacitors - are the caps domed at all? is there any
sign of leakage around the base of the capacitor? If so, this may be
the cause of your problem, and if so, the only solutions are either to
replace the capacitors, or replace the motherboard.

HTH

If you get as far as the POST screen, it usually comes up with the key
required to enter Setup (which is the BIOS) - if not then try DEL, F2, F1,
CTRL+ESC in that order.

Loading the memory tester from the floppy enables the system to scan more of
the RAM - DocMemory scans almost all of it (IIRC, it actually moves out of
the way of the scan at times), and is only constrained if the system has
onboard Video - since there's no drivers or anything else in the way (and if
Windows is already loaded, then the chances are that you're not seeing a
real RAM test at all!)

Unfortunately every BIOS company has their own way of setting out the BIOS -
and each OEM has a different implementation for each model.....
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/d...name=c00007683
should help, though.
(it may be worth disabling secondary cache as a test to see if it helps -
and even primary - but please remember to reset before trying anything
else!!)

BIOS changes can occur for a number of reasons.....
Hardware changes (even the RAM sticks being swapped around in their sockets
could change something)
Power surges (should be stopped by a decent PSU, but....)
Manual fiddling g
Virus attack (not common)
battery removal/death - this is by far the most common cause, and is almost
always accompanied by the resetting of the system clock to the BIOS default
date (usually 1/1/80)

HTH

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Dalamar" wrote in message
. ..
First of all Noel, thank you for your help and for such a quick reply.

I totally agree with you in reguards to Memory Optimizers. It came with PC
Tune-Up 2004 which by all means is an excellent program except for the
addition of a mem optimizer. I only used it in order to attempt to "reap"
any sort of different behavior from my system (whether good or bad). At
64mb they all cause a "Low System Resources" error anyways.

I forget the name of the RAM tester that I use (if I go look, the PC will
lock up). It is from a reputable source however. I left it running for 5
hours monitoring 40 out of 64mb (as suggested in the ReadMe file) without
any error messages. I haven't let it run all night but I will try tonight.
Although I am afraid when I turn the monitor on in the morning, the screen
will be frozen but I will try.

You mentioned running it from a boot disk. The one I am using doesn't
mention that. I ran it straight from the hard drive. Is there a
difference?
If so, just out of curiosity, what is it?

As for BIOS, would it be possible for the BIOS settings to suddenly effect
the PC differently even though no known changes have been made to it or
the
hardware? Is it possible for these settings to change without one's
knowledge? It's been a while since I have been into the BIOS menu. Is it
F9
to access it during system startup?

Do you have any detailed reference material from the net for BIOS settings
akin to an "optimizing BIOS settings" or a "what's what" guide? I have
Googled but the PC just froze up again.

I scanned all of the capacitors with a magnifying glass but the tops of
all
are flat and smooth. No fluid leakage either.

Sorry for all of the questions but my access to the internet is limited
because IE crashes when I use it. I feel fortunate to have Xnews up and
running.

Thanks for taking the time to give a guy a hand with an irritating
problem.

Dalamar








"Noel Paton" wrote in
:

My first suggestion would be to GET RID OF the 'memory optimizer'.
They are ALL - without exception - snake-oil products!
Most will also cause exactly the symptoms you are seeing - although
not usually so severe.

WRT the rest, this does look like it's most probably a RAM issue.
Which RAMtester did you use? - for how long? One pass is not enough to
test a system properly, you need to stress it a little.
Try Docmemory2 from www.simmtester.com - create the boot disk, and
then run it overnight to see what it reports.
Check your BIOS settings - some BIOS tend to be slightly
over-ambitious on the speed settings for the RAM, and it can be worth
slowing it down (particularly on low-cost systems, where the RAM is
often lower-grade stuff) if the settings are available.

That said, this machine is of the right age to have the 'exploding
caps' problem. Inspect the motherboard closely, looking at the
electrolytic capacitors - are the caps domed at all? is there any
sign of leakage around the base of the capacitor? If so, this may be
the cause of your problem, and if so, the only solutions are either to
replace the capacitors, or replace the motherboard.

HTH

Commiserations, I am having the same problems as you - although its
sometimes days before it will boot up again. I suspect mine could be a
graphics problem (although I have changed the card) I am currently trying
with reduced hardware acceleraton - a shot in the dark really...

--
HTH - Any Advice Appreciated - Please Reply To Newsgroup Only

jel183(UK)

"Dalamar" wrote in message
t...
Sorry for such a long post but I am trying to be as thorough and
descriptive as possible.

I must say that I am impressed with this group, reguarding the level of
expertise and willingness to help. I am new to this group but am fairly
knowledgable of the ME operating system. However, this problem has me
stumped and I hope that someone may be able to help me, as this PC is
crucial to my job. I am afraid that the following problem may be a result
of hardware failure, but this is out of my area of expertise.


System Info:

Compaq Presario Model 5WV232 - all hardware is the original equiptment
AMD Duron 700mhz Processor
64mb 100mhz RAM
20gb HD
8mb NVIDIA TNT2 AGP Graphics Card
250W Power Supply
Windows Millenium Edition OS
No external or add-on components
No programs set to load at startup


Background:

This PC was bought new in 2000, then given to me by my girlfriend about 6
months ago. Before I received it, it had rarely been used and had spent
the
majority of its life in its original packaging. After receiving it, I gave
it the works, driver/software updates, Microsoft updates, complete
virus/spyware scan (using latest McAfee/AdAware), regscan, registry
cleanup, defrag, thorough scandisk, trash clean-up, added the latest
ZoneAlarm Pro, tore down the hardware & cleaned all of the dust from it
and
the case, then made sure that all of the hardware/cables were
secure...that
was six months ago. Since then, I do pretty much all of the above on a
weekly to bi-weekly basis.

Problem:

Until Wednesday, my PC worked great, no errors or crashes whatsoever.
Tuesday night, I shut the PC down without incident and the next morning
when I attempted to start it up, I could only get to the initial "Compaq"
screen but no further, nor would it respond to any of the function keys.

Since then, I can occasionally get it to completely boot. Sometimes it
will, sometimes it won't. When it does not completely boot, I can only get
as far as the Compaq screen and sometimes the "Starting Windows..." screen
(Windows ME logo screen was disabled by choice). During startup on a
failed
boot, I can hear the Floppy & CDROM drives initializing and then the hard
drive as it starts but it will only make it as far as the first short set
of "reading" noises and then nothing.

After fighting with it for about 20 minutes to an hour, I can occasionly
get the system to fully load. However, after loading, sometimes it will
COMPLETELY freeze if I do so much as right-click or open a folder on my
desktop immediately after the OS has completely loaded.

Here is the funny thing about it; when the system manages to completely
load Windows and doesn't freeze after the first couple of actions, I can
start a program or two (such as the internet dialer and then Xnews) and
use
them for hours and hours without the first problem. I can use all of the
currently running program's functions (no matter how memory absorbing) and
it will run fine. However, if I try to start another program while one is
already running, or closing the running program and then starting another,
it will freeze either as soon as the icon is clicked or as the program is
loading. After freezing, I have to hold the power button and then it may
take another 20 minutes to an hour to successfully boot up again.


Please Note:

By "freezing", I mean that the screen will freeze in its current state,
without an error message, without an error beep, without any warning
whatsoever. It will not respond to anything at all (mouse, keyboard,
ctrl+alt+del, function keys, etc...).

No changes were made between the time the computer acted normal and the
time the problem began. The problem started overnight.

The PC continues to act this way even using safe-mode, emergency boot
disk,
and/or selective startup. Also note that the PC seems to start slightly
easier & run slightly better after remaining off for several hours.
However, there is no noticable heat, even after hours of continuous use,
from any of the hardware components and the system fans all work
perfectly.


Troubleshooting actions I have taken so far:

I have run scandisk (plus surface scan), scanreg, anti-virus scan,
spyware/adware scan, & registry clean. All came back clean.

System restore has reaped no results.

I have run a memory error checking utility and tried a memory optimizer in
order to try to isolate a possible memory related hardware failure or
settings problem. When using a system monitor, the memory used is well
within normal and acceptable ranges, even under a normal load. (Virtual
memory is set to allow the system to automaticly optimize itself). Keep in
mind though, this problem occurs suddenly. Therefore, the memory utility,
optimizer, and/or monitor may function properly without error but they are
prone to "freezing" as with everything else if more than one or two other
tasks are performed. Therefore, I consider these memory tests and
observations to be inconclusive because I can't put the system under a
considerable or heavy load without it locking up.

I have checked for possible hardware conflicts and hardware driver
errors...both are reporting no problem.

I do not have (or have ever allowed) any startup programs to start with
Windows. I start everything manually as needed.

I have run extensive tests on my NVIDIA Graphics Card & also on DirectX
but
no problems. However, the graphics card is slightly warm to the touch but
I
would think that this is normal?

I have used logged boot to create the bootlog.txt file but upon examining
it, all of the needed startup files, drivers, VXDs, fonts, etc... are
loading successfully with none missing.

I have checked for dust and bad connections within the case. Both system
fans are operating properly and I noted that the heat sink above the
processor is not even warm to the touch.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


To me, it would seem as though I may be having sporadic memory-related
hardware failure. It almost seems that this may be a heat related problem
as well, as the system works better after remaining off for several
hours...but I may be wrong on both counts. Is there something I may be
missing here?

In a way, I almost hope that this is an inexpensive hardware related issue
because my dog chewed up my Windows ME system disks.

All of my knowledge relates primarily to the OS itself. I know little more
than the basics about hardware and I have tried everything that I know to
do. I would greatly appreciate any detailed suggestions or insight that
anyone may have.

My sincere thanks to anyone who may be able to help.


~Dalamar

On most Compaq computers, F10 is the key to access the BIOS. You have to
press it when the Compaq logo is showing and a white square flashing in the
upper right corner. However, most Compaq Setup programs are very limited.
As I was told by one Compaq Tech. "We don't want you adjusting setting in
the BIOS and therefore do not give you much to access." My compaq would not
even let me change the boot sequence.

"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
If you get as far as the POST screen, it usually comes up with the key
required to enter Setup (which is the BIOS) - if not then try DEL, F2, F1,
CTRL+ESC in that order.

Loading the memory tester from the floppy enables the system to scan more
of the RAM - DocMemory scans almost all of it (IIRC, it actually moves
out of the way of the scan at times), and is only constrained if the
system has onboard Video - since there's no drivers or anything else in
the way (and if Windows is already loaded, then the chances are that
you're not seeing a real RAM test at all!)

Unfortunately every BIOS company has their own way of setting out the
BIOS - and each OEM has a different implementation for each model.....
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/d...name=c00007683
should help, though.
(it may be worth disabling secondary cache as a test to see if it helps -
and even primary - but please remember to reset before trying anything
else!!)

BIOS changes can occur for a number of reasons.....
Hardware changes (even the RAM sticks being swapped around in their
sockets could change something)
Power surges (should be stopped by a decent PSU, but....)
Manual fiddling g
Virus attack (not common)
battery removal/death - this is by far the most common cause, and is
almost always accompanied by the resetting of the system clock to the BIOS
default date (usually 1/1/80)

HTH

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Dalamar" wrote in message
. ..
First of all Noel, thank you for your help and for such a quick reply.

I totally agree with you in reguards to Memory Optimizers. It came with
PC
Tune-Up 2004 which by all means is an excellent program except for the
addition of a mem optimizer. I only used it in order to attempt to "reap"
any sort of different behavior from my system (whether good or bad). At
64mb they all cause a "Low System Resources" error anyways.

I forget the name of the RAM tester that I use (if I go look, the PC will
lock up). It is from a reputable source however. I left it running for 5
hours monitoring 40 out of 64mb (as suggested in the ReadMe file) without
any error messages. I haven't let it run all night but I will try
tonight.
Although I am afraid when I turn the monitor on in the morning, the
screen
will be frozen but I will try.

You mentioned running it from a boot disk. The one I am using doesn't
mention that. I ran it straight from the hard drive. Is there a
difference?
If so, just out of curiosity, what is it?

As for BIOS, would it be possible for the BIOS settings to suddenly
effect
the PC differently even though no known changes have been made to it or
the
hardware? Is it possible for these settings to change without one's
knowledge? It's been a while since I have been into the BIOS menu. Is it
F9
to access it during system startup?

Do you have any detailed reference material from the net for BIOS
settings
akin to an "optimizing BIOS settings" or a "what's what" guide? I have
Googled but the PC just froze up again.

I scanned all of the capacitors with a magnifying glass but the tops of
all
are flat and smooth. No fluid leakage either.

Sorry for all of the questions but my access to the internet is limited
because IE crashes when I use it. I feel fortunate to have Xnews up and
running.

Thanks for taking the time to give a guy a hand with an irritating
problem.

Dalamar








"Noel Paton" wrote in
:

My first suggestion would be to GET RID OF the 'memory optimizer'.
They are ALL - without exception - snake-oil products!
Most will also cause exactly the symptoms you are seeing - although
not usually so severe.

WRT the rest, this does look like it's most probably a RAM issue.
Which RAMtester did you use? - for how long? One pass is not enough to
test a system properly, you need to stress it a little.
Try Docmemory2 from www.simmtester.com - create the boot disk, and
then run it overnight to see what it reports.
Check your BIOS settings - some BIOS tend to be slightly
over-ambitious on the speed settings for the RAM, and it can be worth
slowing it down (particularly on low-cost systems, where the RAM is
often lower-grade stuff) if the settings are available.

That said, this machine is of the right age to have the 'exploding
caps' problem. Inspect the motherboard closely, looking at the
electrolytic capacitors - are the caps domed at all? is there any
sign of leakage around the base of the capacitor? If so, this may be
the cause of your problem, and if so, the only solutions are either to
replace the capacitors, or replace the motherboard.

HTH

Hey Noel, thanks for the suggestion about the BIOS settings. I noticed that
when I was having the problem, my PC was accessing my CD drive but going no
further. My floppy drive was not being accessed at all. I remembered your
suggestion so I went in the day after my last post and changed my boot
order.

It was set as:

CD Drive
Floppy Drive
Hard Drive

I changed it to:

Floppy Drive
CD Drive
Hard Drive

That was almost two weeks ago and I haven't had a single problem since. I'm
not sure what would have changed the boot order but in any case, thanks
again!

Dalamar



"Noel Paton" wrote in
:
If you get as far as the POST screen, it usually comes up with the key
required to enter Setup (which is the BIOS) - if not then try DEL, F2,
F1, CTRL+ESC in that order.

Loading the memory tester from the floppy enables the system to scan
more of the RAM - DocMemory scans almost all of it (IIRC, it actually
moves out of the way of the scan at times), and is only constrained if
the system has onboard Video - since there's no drivers or anything
else in the way (and if Windows is already loaded, then the chances
are that you're not seeing a real RAM test at all!)

Unfortunately every BIOS company has their own way of setting out the
BIOS - and each OEM has a different implementation for each model.....
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/d...&cc=us&dlc=en&
product=93905&docname=c00007683 should help, though.
(it may be worth disabling secondary cache as a test to see if it
helps - and even primary - but please remember to reset before trying
anything else!!)

BIOS changes can occur for a number of reasons.....
Hardware changes (even the RAM sticks being swapped around in their
sockets could change something)
Power surges (should be stopped by a decent PSU, but....)
Manual fiddling g
Virus attack (not common)
battery removal/death - this is by far the most common cause, and is
almost always accompanied by the resetting of the system clock to the
BIOS default date (usually 1/1/80)

HTH

Glad that I made sense to someone - looking back at it, it doesn't even make
much sense to me!
Whatever - glad to have pointed you in the right direction.

Good Luck!

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Dalamar" wrote in message
. ..
Hey Noel, thanks for the suggestion about the BIOS settings. I noticed
that
when I was having the problem, my PC was accessing my CD drive but going
no
further. My floppy drive was not being accessed at all. I remembered your
suggestion so I went in the day after my last post and changed my boot
order.

It was set as:

CD Drive
Floppy Drive
Hard Drive

I changed it to:

Floppy Drive
CD Drive
Hard Drive

That was almost two weeks ago and I haven't had a single problem since.
I'm
not sure what would have changed the boot order but in any case, thanks
again!

Dalamar



"Noel Paton" wrote in
:
If you get as far as the POST screen, it usually comes up with the key
required to enter Setup (which is the BIOS) - if not then try DEL, F2,
F1, CTRL+ESC in that order.

Loading the memory tester from the floppy enables the system to scan
more of the RAM - DocMemory scans almost all of it (IIRC, it actually
moves out of the way of the scan at times), and is only constrained if
the system has onboard Video - since there's no drivers or anything
else in the way (and if Windows is already loaded, then the chances
are that you're not seeing a real RAM test at all!)

Unfortunately every BIOS company has their own way of setting out the
BIOS - and each OEM has a different implementation for each model.....
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/d...&cc=us&dlc=en&
product=93905&docname=c00007683 should help, though.
(it may be worth disabling secondary cache as a test to see if it
helps - and even primary - but please remember to reset before trying
anything else!!)

BIOS changes can occur for a number of reasons.....
Hardware changes (even the RAM sticks being swapped around in their
sockets could change something)
Power surges (should be stopped by a decent PSU, but....)
Manual fiddling g
Virus attack (not common)
battery removal/death - this is by far the most common cause, and is
almost always accompanied by the resetting of the system clock to the
BIOS default date (usually 1/1/80)

HTH