Windows 98 Scandisk will not run

"Jeff Richards" wrote in message
...
The file system imposes a maximum partition size.

I will tell you once more, but for the last time.
The binary numbering system is the imposer here.
It is the number one most important factor in the computer world.

The drive size is
irrelevant as far as the file system is concerned. I don't know what the
numerical storage referential capability of the binary system is,

Using a one-bit counter , you can reference two addresses,
location 0 and location 1, because the counter can store
two binary values, 0 and 1.
Using a two-bit counter, you can reference four addresses,
locations 0, 1, 2 and 3, because the counter can store
four binary values, 00, 01, 10, 11.
Using a three-bit counter, you can reference eight addresses,
locations 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, because the counter can store
eight binary values, 000, 001, 010, 011, 100, 101, 110, 111.
A four-bit counter? 16 addresses.

An easy way to calculate the referential capability of a given
bit-length counter is to assign each position a number,
starting on the right with 1, and double it as you move left.
Then add up the numbers, and add 1 to account for all zeroes.

So, an 8-bit counter would have 8 positions.
Assign the values as I stated and you end up with
1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 + 128 = 255
Add 1 more for the zero address giving you 256.

but
maximum usable drive sizes are dictated by the BIOS and the way that the
operating system can access BIOS functions.

Which is all dicatated by the capabilities of the binary system.

Other OSes can bypass the BIOS
and go straight to the hardware, but Windows 98 can't.

OT.

Since you claim that the information is from Microsoft, then please
provide
a reference to the directory sizes table.

You are priceless, if not borderline rude.

However, as you come across as a superior sort,
I am confident that you have the ability to find it yourself.

After all, I was quite capable of doing so, in an attemp to help.

Despite your argumentative posture.

As I said, if you dispute what I posted, take it up with Microsoft.

I would very much like to take it up with Microsoft, because if they have
published this information it needs to be withdrawn. But if I can't point
out where they published it, it's a bit difficult. I have googled on
"Maximum Number of Files in a Directory" and got about 110 hits. Not one of
them included the table you have used. This suggests that you have made some
alteration to the table name, or that you got it from somewhere other than
the www, and that's why I asked for the reference. If you regard this
request as rude then you are entitled to ignore it, but don't be surprised
if your table is questioned.

Your description of the binary system explains why any system component
might have a maximum allowable value. What it does not explain is the point
at issue - that, with Windows 98, it is the BIOS and the way W98 uses it,
and not the file system, that determines maximum usable drive size. If your
original assertion was correct then XP would not be able to use a FAT32
partition on a 160Gb drive.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"Hugh Candlin" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Richards" wrote in message
...
The file system imposes a maximum partition size.

I will tell you once more, but for the last time.
The binary numbering system is the imposer here.
It is the number one most important factor in the computer world.

The drive size is
irrelevant as far as the file system is concerned. I don't know what the
numerical storage referential capability of the binary system is,

Using a one-bit counter , you can reference two addresses,
location 0 and location 1, because the counter can store
two binary values, 0 and 1.
Using a two-bit counter, you can reference four addresses,
locations 0, 1, 2 and 3, because the counter can store
four binary values, 00, 01, 10, 11.
Using a three-bit counter, you can reference eight addresses,
locations 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, because the counter can store
eight binary values, 000, 001, 010, 011, 100, 101, 110, 111.
A four-bit counter? 16 addresses.

An easy way to calculate the referential capability of a given
bit-length counter is to assign each position a number,
starting on the right with 1, and double it as you move left.
Then add up the numbers, and add 1 to account for all zeroes.

So, an 8-bit counter would have 8 positions.
Assign the values as I stated and you end up with
1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 + 128 = 255
Add 1 more for the zero address giving you 256.

but
maximum usable drive sizes are dictated by the BIOS and the way that the
operating system can access BIOS functions.

Which is all dicatated by the capabilities of the binary system.

Other OSes can bypass the BIOS
and go straight to the hardware, but Windows 98 can't.

OT.

Since you claim that the information is from Microsoft, then please
provide
a reference to the directory sizes table.

You are priceless, if not borderline rude.

However, as you come across as a superior sort,
I am confident that you have the ability to find it yourself.

After all, I was quite capable of doing so, in an attemp to help.

Despite your argumentative posture.

As I said, if you dispute what I posted, take it up with Microsoft.

"Hugh Candlin" wrote:


"lugnut554" wrote in message
...
I don't think I've run scandisk on this drive--at least not from Windows.
The
drive is 160 Gb and is not partitioned. What is the largest partition
scandisk can work with?

Using FAT32, the largest drive can be up to 2 terabytes [2047 GB],
based on the 32 KB cluster size limitation.

Hi Hugh

That is in theory. As FAT32 is implemented in Windows the largest
workable size is 128 gb (137 billion bytes) for the reasons given in
Rick Chauvin's reply. Norton disk utilities also have problems with
FAT32 partitions with more than 4.1 million total clusters.

FAT32 partitions larger than 128 gb can be created by some third party
tools, especially disk cloning utilities but because the routine
maintenance utilities cannot handle them it is not a desirable
situation.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"The reason computer chips are so small is computers don't eat much."

lugnut554 wrote:

Scandisk will not run because it reports there is not enough "available
memory". I've tried shutting down the majority of programs that run in the
background but Scandisk keeps reporting insufficient available memory. What
else can be preventing scandisk from functioning properly?


Hi.

Rick Chauvin gave you the correct response.

While your 160 gb hard drive can be used as a single FAT32 partition
it cannot be maintained (e.g. Scandisk and Defrag) because of the
excessive number of clusters on the drive.

Your options a

1. Backup your files and wipe out the drive then repartition it into
two or more partitions so that no one partition is larger than 128 gb
(137 billion bytes).

2. Resize the existing partition with a disk partitioning utility
such as Partition Magic (Symantec) or BootItNG (www.bootitng.com) so
that it is not larger than 128 gb (137 billion bytes). The existing
content should be preserved by this procedure although any changes to
the data structure of a hard drive does carry some degree of risk.
Then you can create a second partition using the balance of the drive.
You will thereby have use of the full capacity of the drive although
it will be seen as two logical drives with different drive letters.

3. Leave the drive as it is and continue use it but forego the use of
Scandisk and Defrag on it (risky in my opinion) or search for other
utilities that will perform the equivalent of Scandisk and Defrag on
very large hard drives. I am not aware of any such utilities myself
but perhaps someone else will know of one.

Good luck


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"The reason computer chips are so small is computers don't eat much."

Thanks everyone for your comments/observations. Some of it was a little over
my head but I think I'll go with repartitioning my hard disk from 160Gb into
at least two logical partitions. I may end up even going with 3 logical
partitions.

"Ron Martell" wrote:

lugnut554 wrote:

Scandisk will not run because it reports there is not enough "available
memory". I've tried shutting down the majority of programs that run in the
background but Scandisk keeps reporting insufficient available memory. What
else can be preventing scandisk from functioning properly?


Hi.

Rick Chauvin gave you the correct response.

While your 160 gb hard drive can be used as a single FAT32 partition
it cannot be maintained (e.g. Scandisk and Defrag) because of the
excessive number of clusters on the drive.

Your options a

1. Backup your files and wipe out the drive then repartition it into
two or more partitions so that no one partition is larger than 128 gb
(137 billion bytes).

2. Resize the existing partition with a disk partitioning utility
such as Partition Magic (Symantec) or BootItNG (www.bootitng.com) so
that it is not larger than 128 gb (137 billion bytes). The existing
content should be preserved by this procedure although any changes to
the data structure of a hard drive does carry some degree of risk.
Then you can create a second partition using the balance of the drive.
You will thereby have use of the full capacity of the drive although
it will be seen as two logical drives with different drive letters.

3. Leave the drive as it is and continue use it but forego the use of
Scandisk and Defrag on it (risky in my opinion) or search for other
utilities that will perform the equivalent of Scandisk and Defrag on
very large hard drives. I am not aware of any such utilities myself
but perhaps someone else will know of one.

Good luck


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"The reason computer chips are so small is computers don't eat much."

I thought the max partition size in Win98SE with FAT32 was limited to 32 GB,
without employing some special tricks (?)

lugnut554 wrote:
Thanks everyone for your comments/observations. Some of it was a little
over
my head but I think I'll go with repartitioning my hard disk from 160Gb
into
at least two logical partitions. I may end up even going with 3 logical
partitions.

"Ron Martell" wrote:

lugnut554 wrote:

Scandisk will not run because it reports there is not enough "available
memory". I've tried shutting down the majority of programs that run in
the
background but Scandisk keeps reporting insufficient available memory.
What
else can be preventing scandisk from functioning properly?


Hi.

Rick Chauvin gave you the correct response.

While your 160 gb hard drive can be used as a single FAT32 partition
it cannot be maintained (e.g. Scandisk and Defrag) because of the
excessive number of clusters on the drive.

Your options a

1. Backup your files and wipe out the drive then repartition it into
two or more partitions so that no one partition is larger than 128 gb
(137 billion bytes).

2. Resize the existing partition with a disk partitioning utility
such as Partition Magic (Symantec) or BootItNG (www.bootitng.com) so
that it is not larger than 128 gb (137 billion bytes). The existing
content should be preserved by this procedure although any changes to
the data structure of a hard drive does carry some degree of risk.
Then you can create a second partition using the balance of the drive.
You will thereby have use of the full capacity of the drive although
it will be seen as two logical drives with different drive letters.

3. Leave the drive as it is and continue use it but forego the use of
Scandisk and Defrag on it (risky in my opinion) or search for other
utilities that will perform the equivalent of Scandisk and Defrag on
very large hard drives. I am not aware of any such utilities myself
but perhaps someone else will know of one.

Good luck


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"The reason computer chips are so small is computers don't eat much."

Have you confirmed that the drive and system is capable of using a 160Gb
disk without errors under Windows 98 and that it is correctly configured for
this size disk?
http://www.48bitlba.com/
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"lugnut554" wrote in message
...
Thanks everyone for your comments/observations. Some of it was a little
over
my head but I think I'll go with repartitioning my hard disk from 160Gb
into
at least two logical partitions. I may end up even going with 3 logical
partitions.

AFAIK, 137 gb's is the limit 98SE can take unless the user has a controller
card.

"lugnut554" wrote in message
...
: Thanks everyone for your comments/observations. Some of it was a little
over
: my head but I think I'll go with repartitioning my hard disk from 160Gb
into
: at least two logical partitions. I may end up even going with 3 logical
: partitions.
:
: "Ron Martell" wrote:
:
: lugnut554 wrote:
:
: Scandisk will not run because it reports there is not enough "available
: memory". I've tried shutting down the majority of programs that run in
the
: background but Scandisk keeps reporting insufficient available memory.
What
: else can be preventing scandisk from functioning properly?
:
:
: Hi.
:
: Rick Chauvin gave you the correct response.
:
: While your 160 gb hard drive can be used as a single FAT32 partition
: it cannot be maintained (e.g. Scandisk and Defrag) because of the
: excessive number of clusters on the drive.
:
: Your options a
:
: 1. Backup your files and wipe out the drive then repartition it into
: two or more partitions so that no one partition is larger than 128 gb
: (137 billion bytes).
:
: 2. Resize the existing partition with a disk partitioning utility
: such as Partition Magic (Symantec) or BootItNG (www.bootitng.com) so
: that it is not larger than 128 gb (137 billion bytes). The existing
: content should be preserved by this procedure although any changes to
: the data structure of a hard drive does carry some degree of risk.
: Then you can create a second partition using the balance of the drive.
: You will thereby have use of the full capacity of the drive although
: it will be seen as two logical drives with different drive letters.
:
: 3. Leave the drive as it is and continue use it but forego the use of
: Scandisk and Defrag on it (risky in my opinion) or search for other
: utilities that will perform the equivalent of Scandisk and Defrag on
: very large hard drives. I am not aware of any such utilities myself
: but perhaps someone else will know of one.
:
: Good luck
:
:
: Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
: --
: Microsoft MVP
: On-Line Help Computer Service
: http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
:
: "The reason computer chips are so small is computers don't eat much."
:

But not in one partition, I believe. I think it's 32 GB per partition
max, isn't it? (without some tricks)

Dan wrote:
AFAIK, 137 gb's is the limit 98SE can take unless the user has a
controller
card.

"lugnut554" wrote in message
...
Thanks everyone for your comments/observations. Some of it was a little
over
my head but I think I'll go with repartitioning my hard disk from 160Gb
into
at least two logical partitions. I may end up even going with 3 logical
partitions.

"Ron Martell" wrote:

lugnut554 wrote:

Scandisk will not run because it reports there is not enough "available
memory". I've tried shutting down the majority of programs that run in
the
background but Scandisk keeps reporting insufficient available memory.
What
else can be preventing scandisk from functioning properly?


Hi.

Rick Chauvin gave you the correct response.

While your 160 gb hard drive can be used as a single FAT32 partition
it cannot be maintained (e.g. Scandisk and Defrag) because of the
excessive number of clusters on the drive.

Your options a

1. Backup your files and wipe out the drive then repartition it into
two or more partitions so that no one partition is larger than 128 gb
(137 billion bytes).

2. Resize the existing partition with a disk partitioning utility
such as Partition Magic (Symantec) or BootItNG (www.bootitng.com) so
that it is not larger than 128 gb (137 billion bytes). The existing
content should be preserved by this procedure although any changes to
the data structure of a hard drive does carry some degree of risk.
Then you can create a second partition using the balance of the drive.
You will thereby have use of the full capacity of the drive although
it will be seen as two logical drives with different drive letters.

3. Leave the drive as it is and continue use it but forego the use of
Scandisk and Defrag on it (risky in my opinion) or search for other
utilities that will perform the equivalent of Scandisk and Defrag on
very large hard drives. I am not aware of any such utilities myself
but perhaps someone else will know of one.

Good luck


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"The reason computer chips are so small is computers don't eat much."

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:42:33 -0700, "Bill in Co."
wrote:

But not in one partition, I believe. I think it's 32 GB per partition
max, isn't it? (without some tricks)

No -- that was very long ago. Read, say
"ScanDisk Errors on IDE Hard Disks Larger Than 32 GB"
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;Q243450

There is also one MS KB absolutely relevant article about 32-GB limit in
Win95-OSR2 -- but I can't find fast its number (deleted from my
archive).

Related links -- limitations of FAT-32, 137-GB limit, etc.:
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;Q140365
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;Q154997
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;Q184006
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;Q253774
--
Mikhail Zhilin
http://www.aha.ru/~mwz
Sorry, no technical support by e-mail.
Please reply to the newsgroups only.
======
Dan wrote:
AFAIK, 137 gb's is the limit 98SE can take unless the user has a
controller
card.

"lugnut554" wrote in message
...
Thanks everyone for your comments/observations. Some of it was a little
over
my head but I think I'll go with repartitioning my hard disk from 160Gb
into
at least two logical partitions. I may end up even going with 3 logical
partitions.

"Ron Martell" wrote:

lugnut554 wrote:

Scandisk will not run because it reports there is not enough "available
memory". I've tried shutting down the majority of programs that run in
the
background but Scandisk keeps reporting insufficient available memory.
What
else can be preventing scandisk from functioning properly?


Hi.

Rick Chauvin gave you the correct response.

While your 160 gb hard drive can be used as a single FAT32 partition
it cannot be maintained (e.g. Scandisk and Defrag) because of the
excessive number of clusters on the drive.

Your options a

1. Backup your files and wipe out the drive then repartition it into
two or more partitions so that no one partition is larger than 128 gb
(137 billion bytes).

2. Resize the existing partition with a disk partitioning utility
such as Partition Magic (Symantec) or BootItNG (www.bootitng.com) so
that it is not larger than 128 gb (137 billion bytes). The existing
content should be preserved by this procedure although any changes to
the data structure of a hard drive does carry some degree of risk.
Then you can create a second partition using the balance of the drive.
You will thereby have use of the full capacity of the drive although
it will be seen as two logical drives with different drive letters.

3. Leave the drive as it is and continue use it but forego the use of
Scandisk and Defrag on it (risky in my opinion) or search for other
utilities that will perform the equivalent of Scandisk and Defrag on
very large hard drives. I am not aware of any such utilities myself
but perhaps someone else will know of one.

Good luck


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"The reason computer chips are so small is computers don't eat much."