What's the deal with MS05-002 (KB891711.EXE) and Windows 98?

Rick Chauvin wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote:
But the issue has been effectively resolved, for all "practical
purposes",
by swapping those two DLL files (IMO). Works GREAT over here!

Yes Bill we know full well your feelings about the issue, and others.
..been there done that...

Not just my feeling - several others in here too.

Hey that reminds me of George Bindar Dundat g ...which I hope he is
doing well.

Bill you are probably a really big guy that no one would want to mess with
in
a bar, and you have you own way and ideas about everything you do and you
do
everything your own way - no matter what anyone tells you on countless
issues over the past years whether they are technically right or wrong.
You
remind me of a stubborn bull in a china closet ...and over the years you
buck
everything and everybody

Not a big guy, but a stubborn ornery one, one not easily swayed by "the
crowd".

Remember Emerson? "whoso would be a man, must be a non-conformist", and
that comes naturally for me. :-)

Technically speaking the dll swap is a backwards hack in so many obvious
ways; however, I do totally understand and respect that you want to use it
and hey afterall I used it for 6 months myself and through that time
supported others in doing it just like you are. Yes I agree and it's
true that the way IE6 is stock with this problem is unacceptable.

TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!!!. If I had to live with THAT, I'd almost consider
switching back to IE 5.5 SP2, but I can't do that easily anyways, besides
which, at least now I have a little more protection, without "relying" on
those "sometimes problematic" "windows updates"

I vote to get it fixed properly though so that those two dll's are
inclusive
of all Numerous Updates that are Missing if swapped, no to mention any
code
disconnects causing the other anomalies you will experience eventually.
Yeah
Yeah I know I know, you don't care about updates anymore... Well, I do

If something is worth doing then it's worth doing right.

Yeah, but do you really think it's gonna happen in our lifetime? Come on
now, let's not be naive. (Of course I never thought I'd live to see the
Berlin Wall come down either)

peace,
..and my post is not a putdown at you - it's just 'call it like it is' bar
talk over a few beers, and so take it in that context.

Rick

Good enough, Rick! :-)


Rick Chauvin wrote:
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:

More on that, please? Which two .DLL files?

cquirke, if you can find a way to solve this problem without having to
swap to the old 5.5 dlls and what that means, you will be W9x's official
grand hero! vbg

The problem is real and is a royal p.i.t.a ..I get around it by
holding
the Shift key when I want to delete anything out of the ordinary - and
that seems to keep me out of the problem, but I would really like to get
this fixed correctly once and for all !

I've seen the work you did with the TS-BATS setup you made for parallel
installs and what that represented in know-how for you to do that, and
other things, and so I'm complementing you forward to see if you can
resolves this issue for us too.

Rick

Yea, but OTOH, I *do* know what got broken by this one this thread is all
about!! Or rather, I'm hearing about it in here - now. :-)

So, "you takes your choices...." :-)

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
And there's *still* no knowing what got broken by employing this "fix".

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"glee" wrote in message
...
:-) For the few, yes......but still a long way from "effectively
resolved
for all practical purposes" s
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
For the few that have reported in here on this issue, it has seemed to
work
for them too.

glee wrote:
Well, that's not really true, Bill. It works for you, but may or may
not
work for others. On some systems it may cause problems or strange
behaviours. That's a long way from "effectively resolved for all
practical
purposes" --

Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
But the issue has been effectively resolved, for all "practical
purposes",
by swapping those two DLL files (IMO). Works GREAT over here!

Rick Chauvin wrote:
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:

More on that, please? Which two .DLL files?

cquirke, if you can find a way to solve this problem without having
to
swap to the old 5.5 dlls and what that means, you will be W9x's
official
grand hero! vbg

The problem is real and is a royal p.i.t.a ..I get around it
by
holding
the
Shift key when I want to delete anything out of the ordinary - and
that
seems to keep me out of the problem, but I would really like to get
this
fixed correctly once and for all !

I've seen the work you did with the TS-BATS setup you made for
parallel
installs and what that represented in know-how for you to do that,
and
other things, and so I'm complementing you forward to see if you can
resolves this issue for us too.

Rick

Yea, but OTOH, I *do* know what got broken by this one this thread is all
about!! Or rather, I'm hearing about it in here - now. :-)

So, "you takes your choices...." :-)

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
And there's *still* no knowing what got broken by employing this "fix".

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"glee" wrote in message
...
:-) For the few, yes......but still a long way from "effectively
resolved
for all practical purposes" s
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
For the few that have reported in here on this issue, it has seemed to
work
for them too.

glee wrote:
Well, that's not really true, Bill. It works for you, but may or may
not
work for others. On some systems it may cause problems or strange
behaviours. That's a long way from "effectively resolved for all
practical
purposes" --

Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
But the issue has been effectively resolved, for all "practical
purposes",
by swapping those two DLL files (IMO). Works GREAT over here!

Rick Chauvin wrote:
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:

More on that, please? Which two .DLL files?

cquirke, if you can find a way to solve this problem without having
to
swap to the old 5.5 dlls and what that means, you will be W9x's
official
grand hero! vbg

The problem is real and is a royal p.i.t.a ..I get around it
by
holding
the
Shift key when I want to delete anything out of the ordinary - and
that
seems to keep me out of the problem, but I would really like to get
this
fixed correctly once and for all !

I've seen the work you did with the TS-BATS setup you made for
parallel
installs and what that represented in know-how for you to do that,
and
other things, and so I'm complementing you forward to see if you can
resolves this issue for us too.

Rick

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:39:23 -0500, "PCR" wrote:

OK. But I'm thinking a WEB site can get one infected or otherwise be
malicious in a many ways.

Yep - increase in broadband and servers has changed things a bit.

First it was viruses spreading via disks, then via email.

Once you infect and spread between servers, things change in that
because servers don't get rebooted often and are always online,
there's less need to persist across reboots. So pure worms can run
purely as an in-memory process without ever existing as files; sure,
they die when the server's rebooted, but it's easy to re-infect the
server from some other infected server that's "watching" it.

OTOH, malware's generally gone pro, and there are so many
opportunities to make money in so many ways that are not legally
challenged, that it's easier to run your own site and exploit
visitors. In fact, web browsers and script-exteded HTML are designed
for exactly this purpose. As long as you stick to first-generation
spread (i.e. from site to victim, or via spam to victim) you're just
an aggressive business enterprise, not a virus bad guy.

In that sense; yes, both HTML via web pages and via spam are likely to
pose risks to your system.



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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:33:35 -0700, "Bill in Co."
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:50:26 -0700, "Bill in Co."

Well, except for that stupid file copy/delete problem in copying a large
number of files in Windows Explorer (with IE 6 and Win98SE) - but that's
been fixed by swapping those two DLL files.

More on that, please? Which two .DLL files?

browseui.dll
browselc.dll

If you swap these two with the older IE 5.5 versions, that problem goes
away. But be sure to put the newer IE6 ones in \program files\intenet
explorer

OK. Jeez, that problem took a long time to get sorted out... and no
thanks to MS, by the look of it.

Here is the reference article:
http://www.frankprovo.com/win98ie6filesproblem.htm

When you say "IE5.5", do you mean IE 5.5 SP0, SP1 or SP2?



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Gone to bloggery: http://cquirke.blogspot.com
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:34:13 -0500, "Rick Chauvin"
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:

More on that, please? Which two .DLL files?

cquirke, if you can find a way to solve this problem without having to swap
to the old 5.5 dlls and what that means, you will be W9x's official grand
hero! vbg

I would sooo like to fix this problem. It drives me mad, on my own
system - it's pathetic when you have to spwn a C: (command prompt)
just to delete or rename files and create new dirs, because Windows is
too incompitent to do it properly. I haven't seen that degree of core
file management uselessness since Win3.yuk's UnDelete screw-up.

The problem is real and is a royal p.i.t.a ..I get around it by holding the
Shift key when I want to delete anything out of the ordinary - and that seems
to keep me out of the problem

I routinely do that (it has the effect of bypassing Recycle Bin
directly to trash) and it doesn't fix the problem for me. What fixes
the problem (for a while) is Ctl+Alt+Del and killing Explorer, so that
the shell restarts. I've seen resource heaps go down with this
problem, but I've also seen the problem when the heaps were OK.

At one time I thought it had to do with damaged \Recyced folders, i.e.
those that lack the "special" Desktop.ini and thus look like regular
yellow folders in the drive's root dir. I played with that, and for a
while it looked like I could initiate the problem that way, but the
results were inconclusive and I abandoned testing.

I've seen the work you did with the TS-BATS setup you made for parallel
installs and what that represented in know-how for you to do that, and other
things, and so I'm complementing you forward to see if you can resolves this
issue for us too.

I'm flattered, but I doubt if I'll lick this - I'll certainly give it
a go, though. If time permitted, I might get medieval with FC and
pasting between .DLLs to find the rotten function call :-)



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Gone to bloggery: http://cquirke.blogspot.com
---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

OK. Protection against HTML is important, & against Script, too. Too bad
such wonderful tools must be emasculated, though. That might go a long
way toward protection against non-malicious WEB sites, that just somehow
picked up an infection. But a truly malicious site likely can destroy a
computer in any number of other ways, I'm still thinking.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" wrote
in message ...
| On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:39:23 -0500, "PCR" wrote:
|
| OK. But I'm thinking a WEB site can get one infected or otherwise be
| malicious in a many ways.
|
| Yep - increase in broadband and servers has changed things a bit.
|
| First it was viruses spreading via disks, then via email.
|
| Once you infect and spread between servers, things change in that
| because servers don't get rebooted often and are always online,
| there's less need to persist across reboots. So pure worms can run
| purely as an in-memory process without ever existing as files; sure,
| they die when the server's rebooted, but it's easy to re-infect the
| server from some other infected server that's "watching" it.
|
| OTOH, malware's generally gone pro, and there are so many
| opportunities to make money in so many ways that are not legally
| challenged, that it's easier to run your own site and exploit
| visitors. In fact, web browsers and script-exteded HTML are designed
| for exactly this purpose. As long as you stick to first-generation
| spread (i.e. from site to victim, or via spam to victim) you're just
| an aggressive business enterprise, not a virus bad guy.
|
| In that sense; yes, both HTML via web pages and via spam are likely to
| pose risks to your system.
|
|
|
| ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
| Gone to bloggery: http://cquirke.blogspot.com
| ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:33:35 -0700, "Bill in Co."
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:50:26 -0700, "Bill in Co."

Well, except for that stupid file copy/delete problem in copying a
large
number of files in Windows Explorer (with IE 6 and Win98SE) - but
that's
been fixed by swapping those two DLL files.

More on that, please? Which two .DLL files?

browseui.dll
browselc.dll

If you swap these two with the older IE 5.5 versions, that problem goes
away. But be sure to put the newer IE6 ones in \program files\intenet
explorer

OK. Jeez, that problem took a long time to get sorted out... and no
thanks to MS, by the look of it.

Nope. And I wouldn't hold my breath either (on MS fixing it).

Here is the reference article:
http://www.frankprovo.com/win98ie6filesproblem.htm

When you say "IE5.5", do you mean IE 5.5 SP0, SP1 or SP2?

I believe you can use any of them. (I happened to have had IE 5.5 SP2
installed at the time, before I "upgraded" to IE 6 SP1).

The point being: the problem developed with the newer versions (IE 6) of
browseui.dll and browselc.dll (although I think the main problem is due to
browseui.dll)


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Gone to bloggery: http://cquirke.blogspot.com
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cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:34:13 -0500, "Rick Chauvin"
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:

More on that, please? Which two .DLL files?

cquirke, if you can find a way to solve this problem without having to
swap
to the old 5.5 dlls and what that means, you will be W9x's official grand
hero! vbg

I would sooo like to fix this problem.

It is "fixed" - just swap the damn files! Well, at least it's fixed over
here! And I'm in heaven for it now!! There is NO WAY I'll put those
files back, unless something major comes up - and it hasn't!

You have two choices now:
1) live with the problem, and suffer needlessly, or
2) join me in full contentment. :-)

(your call)

It drives me mad, on my own
system - it's pathetic when you have to spwn a C: (command prompt)
just to delete or rename files and create new dirs, because Windows is
too incompetent to do it properly. I haven't seen that degree of core
file management uselessness since Win3.yuk's UnDelete screw-up.

The problem is real and is a royal p.i.t.a ..I get around it by holding
the
Shift key when I want to delete anything out of the ordinary - and that
seems
to keep me out of the problem

I routinely do that (it has the effect of bypassing Recycle Bin
directly to trash) and it doesn't fix the problem for me. What fixes
the problem (for a while) is Ctl+Alt+Del and killing Explorer, so that
the shell restarts. I've seen resource heaps go down with this
problem, but I've also seen the problem when the heaps were OK.

At one time I thought it had to do with damaged \Recyced folders, i.e.
those that lack the "special" Desktop.ini and thus look like regular
yellow folders in the drive's root dir. I played with that, and for a
while it looked like I could initiate the problem that way, but the
results were inconclusive and I abandoned testing.

I've seen the work you did with the TS-BATS setup you made for parallel
installs and what that represented in know-how for you to do that, and
other
things, and so I'm complementing you forward to see if you can resolves
this
issue for us too.

I'm flattered, but I doubt if I'll lick this - I'll certainly give it
a go, though. If time permitted, I might get medieval with FC and
pasting between .DLLs to find the rotten function call :-)



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Gone to bloggery: http://cquirke.blogspot.com
---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

COLORADO, RUN! There is an MSFT on the prowl, going by the name of
Bryant!


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
| cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:
| On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:34:13 -0500, "Rick Chauvin"
| cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:
|
| More on that, please? Which two .DLL files?
|
| cquirke, if you can find a way to solve this problem without having
to
| swap
| to the old 5.5 dlls and what that means, you will be W9x's official
grand
| hero! vbg
|
| I would sooo like to fix this problem.
|
| It is "fixed" - just swap the damn files! Well, at least it's
fixed over
| here! And I'm in heaven for it now!! There is NO WAY I'll put
those
| files back, unless something major comes up - and it hasn't!
|
| You have two choices now:
| 1) live with the problem, and suffer needlessly, or
| 2) join me in full contentment. :-)
|
| (your call)
|
| It drives me mad, on my own
| system - it's pathetic when you have to spwn a C: (command prompt)
| just to delete or rename files and create new dirs, because Windows
is
| too incompetent to do it properly. I haven't seen that degree of
core
| file management uselessness since Win3.yuk's UnDelete screw-up.
|
| The problem is real and is a royal p.i.t.a ..I get around it by
holding
| the
| Shift key when I want to delete anything out of the ordinary - and
that
| seems
| to keep me out of the problem
|
| I routinely do that (it has the effect of bypassing Recycle Bin
| directly to trash) and it doesn't fix the problem for me. What
fixes
| the problem (for a while) is Ctl+Alt+Del and killing Explorer, so
that
| the shell restarts. I've seen resource heaps go down with this
| problem, but I've also seen the problem when the heaps were OK.
|
| At one time I thought it had to do with damaged \Recyced folders,
i.e.
| those that lack the "special" Desktop.ini and thus look like regular
| yellow folders in the drive's root dir. I played with that, and for
a
| while it looked like I could initiate the problem that way, but the
| results were inconclusive and I abandoned testing.
|
| I've seen the work you did with the TS-BATS setup you made for
parallel
| installs and what that represented in know-how for you to do that,
and
| other
| things, and so I'm complementing you forward to see if you can
resolves
| this
| issue for us too.
|
| I'm flattered, but I doubt if I'll lick this - I'll certainly give
it
| a go, though. If time permitted, I might get medieval with FC and
| pasting between .DLLs to find the rotten function call :-)
|
|
|
| ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
| Gone to bloggery: http://cquirke.blogspot.com
| ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
|
|