What's the deal with MS05-002 (KB891711.EXE) and Windows 98?

Basic t-shooting to see what, if anything, else on the affected system
might be at least a pre-condition to the problem. I went through the
details in my post to Win98.Gen_Discussion of 3/14 07:27 PST, titled:
"Review of KB891711.exe issue"

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
...
No BSOD here, but what is/are the simple test(s)?

Indeed it is.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You think that's a simple one, eh?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
The solution is simple: don't take in all the (supposed) "updates".

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
Just read the Win98.Gen_Discussion group, or the WindowsME.General
group, and you'll see several examples of KB891711 causing BSODs.
Believe me, there *is* a problem, and MS *is* working on a solution. The
biggest problem we have, now, is most people who are having trouble with
KB891711 don't seem to be willing to perform some rather simple tests
and return the results.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
...
Well, we live in an era of 'instant PC Experts'

the typical'my brother in law-sez, ......., and the secretary at
work.....

roof is needed not rumors.

I've had the update for 4 days and nothing has raised an ugly head yet.

"Dan" wrote in message
...
It is just what people are saying. I don't have any proof.

"SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
...
Any particular boards?

Is this well founded and some one has absolute proof, or just some
one
saying it must be ...?

"Dan" wrote in message
...
Read the discussion boards and you will see that it is causing havoc
with some user's machines and associated software and/or hardware.
For
some
of
the users baddies are definately involved but definately not with
all
the users.

"SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
...
Whata's the downside of this update?

"Ivan Bútora" wrote in message
...
Dan, please. ANY update is optional. It is up to me if I
want to
install
it on my machine or not. Yes, I think it's good to install
these
updates
in
general, and I have installed all of them except KB891711. But
on
the
other
hand, there are upsides and downsides. In the case of KB891711, the
inconvenience and trouble that is likely to be caused by this
patch
is
far
greater than the risk of a hacker exploiting your machine.
Keep in
mind
that
there have been several updates this year considered "important"
for
Windows 98 that have not been released publicly. As Gary
Terhune
pointed
out,
the
difference between "important" and "critical" is actually not so
significant in terms of the security threat. So yeah, your machine
probably *is* vulnerable to something. But that's life, you
can't be
100%
secure
all
the
time. I don't see the point in making such a big fuss about
not
having
this
one patch installed.

And FYI, since September 2004, my computer has been running
WITHOUT
anti-virus protection, anti-spyware, etc. So yesterday I
decided I
would
run
a SpyBot check just for the hell of it, and guess what -
nothing
found
other
than a couple of IE cookies. My point: The most important thing is
being aware of what you're doing with your computer and on the
Internet.

Frankly, I don't know what your letter to Bill Gates was,
but what
I
do
know is that MS should be ashamed for releasing a patch in this
manner,
without informing the users of the potential caveats, and
apparently
without testing in dial-up systems, etc.



"Dan" wrote in message
...
According to PC Today, April issue it is a critical update
that
has
as
of now
not been exploited by hackers. Guys and Gals you need
this
critical
update
because I am guessing within 3 weeks someone will find a way to
compromise all 98SE and associated 9x machines that need the
patch
and have
not
been
updated. My best guess is that the time for the hackers
will be
a
maximum of
3 weeks and it may be even faster so if your machine is
connected
to
the
Internet do whatever it takes to keep "KB891711.EXE"
running
because
I
am
sure down the line Microsoft will be able to do a better
fix but
this
is
a
temporary solution, hopefully to allow users to be safe
while
on-line.
If
programs are not responding then discover why. People you
need
this
CRITICAL
PATCH and it is not optional. If Windows will not run
with the
patch
because
of BSOD then disconnect from the Internet -- remove
Ethernet
cable,
USB
cable
or phone cable until the problem is resolved because if
you do
not
do
this
and have exited this CRITICAL PATCH then you are just
asking for
your
system
to be hacked and no it will not be by me or my friends
although
I
know
a
lot
about security on computers and weak access points and
could
probably
do
it
without too much trouble if I wanted to but my heart is
with
keeping
the
U.S.A and its Allies and businesses and finally consumers
to try
and
get
one
small leg up on the PEOPLE who hack machines for a hobby, the
terriorists and finally the script kiddies. Let me know how I
and
others
can
help
you
with
your computer problems. Have a nice day!

"98 Guy" wrote in message
...

If you don't know what I'm talking about, look he


http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec.../MS05-002.mspx

If you're running Win 98, and have recently (within the past
week)
gone to Windows Updates and updated your computer, you almost
certainly now have the file "KB891711.EXE" running in the
background. It is set to run automatically at startup. First
time
any
such
update
or security patch has been configured to operate (instead of
simply
replacing an existing file).

Even though Micro$loth sez that MS05-002 (KB891711.EXE) is
critical
for Win-98, I've read where some (many) people are simply
deactivating it (via msconfig).

Does anyone really know the truth regarding Win-98 and
KB891711.EXE?

Is there anything special about it (like running it in
safe
mode
to
properly install it) ?

Is it really needed? (for win-98) ?

Is Win-98 really vulnerable to MS05-002 ???

OK, maybe you can share your philosophy on how one decides *which*
updates to install and which not to install.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Indeed it is.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You think that's a simple one, eh?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
The solution is simple: don't take in all the (supposed)
"updates".

Simple. None. (And I'm still here to prove it).

Next?

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
OK, maybe you can share your philosophy on how one decides *which*
updates to install and which not to install.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Indeed it is.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You think that's a simple one, eh?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
The solution is simple: don't take in all the (supposed) "updates".

Unfortunately, the machines I saw the problems on were at work, the update was
removed right away, and I can't put it back on to test, as it is a work computer and
I cannot "test" on those.

I have not been able to repro the problem on another machine yet....maybe this
weekend I can try on some old machines here at home.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
Just read the Win98.Gen_Discussion group, or the WindowsME.General
group, and you'll see several examples of KB891711 causing BSODs.
Believe me, there *is* a problem, and MS *is* working on a solution. The
biggest problem we have, now, is most people who are having trouble with
KB891711 don't seem to be willing to perform some rather simple tests
and return the results.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
...
Well, we live in an era of 'instant PC Experts'

the typical'my brother in law-sez, ......., and the secretary at
work.....

roof is needed not rumors.

I've had the update for 4 days and nothing has raised an ugly head
yet.

"Dan" wrote in message
...
It is just what people are saying. I don't have any proof.

"SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
...
: Any particular boards?
:
: Is this well founded and some one has absolute proof, or just some
one
: saying it must be ...?
:
: "Dan" wrote in message
: ...
: Read the discussion boards and you will see that it is causing
havoc
with
: some user's machines and associated software and/or hardware.
For
some
of
: the users baddies are definately involved but definately not
with all
the
: users.
:
: "SFB - KB3MM" wrote in message
: ...
: : Whata's the downside of this update?
: :
: : "Ivan Bútora" wrote in message
: : ...
: : Dan, please. ANY update is optional. It is up to me if I
want to
: install
: : it on my machine or not. Yes, I think it's good to install
these
updates
: in
: : general, and I have installed all of them except KB891711. But
on
the
: other
: : hand, there are upsides and downsides. In the case of
KB891711, the
: : inconvenience and trouble that is likely to be caused by this
patch
is
: far
: : greater than the risk of a hacker exploiting your machine.
Keep in
mind
: that
: : there have been several updates this year considered
"important" for
: Windows
: : 98 that have not been released publicly. As Gary Terhune
pointed
out,
: the
: : difference between "important" and "critical" is actually not
so
: significant
: : in terms of the security threat. So yeah, your machine
probably *is*
: : vulnerable to something. But that's life, you can't be 100%
secure
all
: the
: : time. I don't see the point in making such a big fuss about
not
having
: this
: : one patch installed.
: :
: : And FYI, since September 2004, my computer has been running
WITHOUT
: : anti-virus protection, anti-spyware, etc. So yesterday I
decided I
would
: run
: : a SpyBot check just for the hell of it, and guess what -
nothing
found
: other
: : than a couple of IE cookies. My point: The most important
thing is
being
: : aware of what you're doing with your computer and on the
Internet.
: :
: : Frankly, I don't know what your letter to Bill Gates was,
but what
I
: do
: : know is that MS should be ashamed for releasing a patch in
this
manner,
: : without informing the users of the potential caveats, and
apparently
: without
: : testing in dial-up systems, etc.
: :
: :
: :
: : "Dan" wrote in message
: : ...
: : According to PC Today, April issue it is a critical update
that
has
: as
: : of now
: : not been exploited by hackers. Guys and Gals you need
this
critical
: : update
: : because I am guessing within 3 weeks someone will find a
way to
: : compromise
: : all 98SE and associated 9x machines that need the patch
and have
not
: : been
: : updated. My best guess is that the time for the hackers
will be
a
: : maximum of
: : 3 weeks and it may be even faster so if your machine is
connected
to
: the
: : Internet do whatever it takes to keep "KB891711.EXE"
running
because
: I
: : am
: : sure down the line Microsoft will be able to do a better
fix but
: this
: is
: : a
: : temporary solution, hopefully to allow users to be safe
while
: on-line.
: : If
: : programs are not responding then discover why. People you
need
this
: : CRITICAL
: : PATCH and it is not optional. If Windows will not run
with the
: patch
: : because
: : of BSOD then disconnect from the Internet -- remove
Ethernet
cable,
: USB
: : cable
: : or phone cable until the problem is resolved because if
you do
not
: do
: : this
: : and have exited this CRITICAL PATCH then you are just
asking for
: your
: : system
: : to be hacked and no it will not be by me or my friends
although
I
: know
: a
: : lot
: : about security on computers and weak access points and
could
: probably
: do
: : it
: : without too much trouble if I wanted to but my heart is
with
keeping
: the
: : U.S.A and its Allies and businesses and finally consumers
to try
and
: get
: : one
: : small leg up on the PEOPLE who hack machines for a hobby,
the
: : terriorists and
: : finally the script kiddies. Let me know how I and others
can
help
: you
: : with
: : your computer problems. Have a nice day!
: :
: : "98 Guy" wrote in message
: ...
: : :
: : : If you don't know what I'm talking about, look he
: : :
: : :
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec.../MS05-002.mspx
: : :
: : : If you're running Win 98, and have recently (within the
past
week)
: : : gone to Windows Updates and updated your computer, you
almost
: : : certainly now have the file "KB891711.EXE" running in
the
: background.
: : : It is set to run automatically at startup. First time
any
such
: update
: : : or security patch has been configured to operate
(instead of
: simply
: : : replacing an existing file).
: : :
: : : Even though Micro$loth sez that MS05-002 (KB891711.EXE)
is
: critical
: : : for Win-98, I've read where some (many) people are
simply
: deactivating
: : : it (via msconfig).
: : :
: : : Does anyone really know the truth regarding Win-98 and
: KB891711.EXE?
: : :
: : : Is there anything special about it (like running it in
safe
mode
: to
: : : properly install it) ?
: : :
: : : Is it really needed? (for win-98) ?
: : :
: : : Is Win-98 really vulnerable to MS05-002 ???
: :
: :
: :
:
:
:

But you are shorter than once you were, Colorado! By 3/4's!

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
| Simple. None. (And I'm still here to prove it).
|
| Next?
|
| Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| OK, maybe you can share your philosophy on how one decides *which*
| updates to install and which not to install.
|
| --
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS MVP Shell/User
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
| "Bill in Co." wrote in message
| ...
| Indeed it is.
|
| Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| You think that's a simple one, eh?
|
| --
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS MVP Shell/User
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
| "Bill in Co." wrote in message
| ...
| The solution is simple: don't take in all the (supposed)
"updates".
|
|

I can tell you this much, everything is working over here, including the
troubleshooters!

Well, except for that stupid file copy/delete problem in copying a large
number of files in Windows Explorer (with IE 6 and Win98SE) - but that's
been fixed by swapping those two DLL files.

So - hunky dory!

Plus I'm on a dial up, another added security benefit!

PCR wrote:
But you are shorter than once you were, Colorado! By 3/4's!

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Simple. None. (And I'm still here to prove it).

Next?

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
OK, maybe you can share your philosophy on how one decides *which*
updates to install and which not to install.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Indeed it is.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You think that's a simple one, eh?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
The solution is simple: don't take in all the (supposed) "updates".

More power to you. Off the record, I've never had a virus, nor has a
usually up-to-date McAfee ever informed me one had attempted. STILL, it
only takes one. Also, I'm sure, some of the security "flaws" MS are
always fixing don't need a virus to cause harm, but just a malicious WEB
site.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
| I can tell you this much, everything is working over here, including
the
| troubleshooters!
|
| Well, except for that stupid file copy/delete problem in copying a
large
| number of files in Windows Explorer (with IE 6 and Win98SE) - but
that's
| been fixed by swapping those two DLL files.
|
| So - hunky dory!
|
| Plus I'm on a dial up, another added security benefit!
|
| PCR wrote:
| But you are shorter than once you were, Colorado! By 3/4's!
|
| --
| Thanks or Good Luck,
| There may be humor in this post, and,
| Naturally, you will not sue,
| should things get worse after this,
| PCR
|
| "Bill in Co." wrote in message
| ...
| Simple. None. (And I'm still here to prove it).
|
| Next?
|
| Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| OK, maybe you can share your philosophy on how one decides *which*
| updates to install and which not to install.
|
| --
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS MVP Shell/User
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
| "Bill in Co." wrote in message
| ...
| Indeed it is.
|
| Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| You think that's a simple one, eh?
|
| --
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS MVP Shell/User
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
| "Bill in Co." wrote in message
| ...
| The solution is simple: don't take in all the (supposed)
"updates".
|
|

I've gotten a virus/trojan horse/malware or two in the past, but I took care
of it. (I think I was off on some wild goose chase in my web searches, as
I recall). And I don't remember if I had my virus program up to date (I
don't think so).

One of them was a a bit of a pain to get rid of, but restoring the registry
saved the day (and actually was necessary, unless you wanted to spend some
pruning time in there). I think that was the MALWARE one (the infamous
"180solutions" one).

PCR wrote:
More power to you. Off the record, I've never had a virus, nor has a
usually up-to-date McAfee ever informed me one had attempted. STILL, it
only takes one. Also, I'm sure, some of the security "flaws" MS are
always fixing don't need a virus to cause harm, but just a malicious WEB
site.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
I can tell you this much, everything is working over here, including the
troubleshooters!

Well, except for that stupid file copy/delete problem in copying a large
number of files in Windows Explorer (with IE 6 and Win98SE) - but that's
been fixed by swapping those two DLL files.

So - hunky dory!

Plus I'm on a dial up, another added security benefit!

PCR wrote:
But you are shorter than once you were, Colorado! By 3/4's!

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Simple. None. (And I'm still here to prove it).

Next?

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
OK, maybe you can share your philosophy on how one decides *which*
updates to install and which not to install.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Indeed it is.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You think that's a simple one, eh?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
The solution is simple: don't take in all the (supposed)
"updates".

I would go for my full system backup in that circumstance. Although I've
created a ton of partitions now, still I'm not that complex to restore.
Good for you, though, to beat them in hand to hand combat, Colorado.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
| I've gotten a virus/trojan horse/malware or two in the past, but I
took care
| of it. (I think I was off on some wild goose chase in my web
searches, as
| I recall). And I don't remember if I had my virus program up to
date (I
| don't think so).
|
| One of them was a a bit of a pain to get rid of, but restoring the
registry
| saved the day (and actually was necessary, unless you wanted to spend
some
| pruning time in there). I think that was the MALWARE one (the
infamous
| "180solutions" one).
|
| PCR wrote:
| More power to you. Off the record, I've never had a virus, nor has a
| usually up-to-date McAfee ever informed me one had attempted. STILL,
it
| only takes one. Also, I'm sure, some of the security "flaws" MS are
| always fixing don't need a virus to cause harm, but just a malicious
WEB
| site.
|
|
| --
| Thanks or Good Luck,
| There may be humor in this post, and,
| Naturally, you will not sue,
| should things get worse after this,
| PCR
|
| "Bill in Co." wrote in message
| ...
| I can tell you this much, everything is working over here,
including the
| troubleshooters!
|
| Well, except for that stupid file copy/delete problem in copying a
large
| number of files in Windows Explorer (with IE 6 and Win98SE) - but
that's
| been fixed by swapping those two DLL files.
|
| So - hunky dory!
|
| Plus I'm on a dial up, another added security benefit!
|
| PCR wrote:
| But you are shorter than once you were, Colorado! By 3/4's!
|
| --
| Thanks or Good Luck,
| There may be humor in this post, and,
| Naturally, you will not sue,
| should things get worse after this,
| PCR
|
| "Bill in Co." wrote in message
| ...
| Simple. None. (And I'm still here to prove it).
|
| Next?
|
| Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| OK, maybe you can share your philosophy on how one decides
*which*
| updates to install and which not to install.
|
| --
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS MVP Shell/User
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
| "Bill in Co." wrote in message
| ...
| Indeed it is.
|
| Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| You think that's a simple one, eh?
|
| --
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS MVP Shell/User
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
| http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
|
| "Bill in Co." wrote in message
| ...
| The solution is simple: don't take in all the (supposed)
| "updates".
|
|