KB891711.EXE

In article , Earl says...

snip

Once 891711 has been installed, the problem seems to arise due to a problem
with the hardware and or drivers not being able to process graphics
properly. It appears that 891711 is intercepting some of the graphic data
and "re-handling" it.

Intel systems appear to be nearly, if not completely unaffected by the
problem, which tells me that the patch was most likely tested on Intel
machines only.

snip

Interesting. I have two computers. Both are nearly identical; check my post:

Subject: KB891711.EXE
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:21:06 -0800
Message-ID:

Now, having others point to graphics as a suspect, I will add this (and I
thought I had brought both computers to the same level on the graphics
drivers; I was wrong):

Megumi (kb891711 causes crashes):
Intel 82810 graphics chip; Intel driver version: 4.13.01.3196

Naomi (kb891711 doesn't cause crashes):
Intel 82810 graphics chip; Intel driver version: 4.13.01.3004

Now to head over to the Intel site and see if anything new is available. I
wonder; is it better to leave Kb891711 off, or to roll back the driver to an
earlier version? If there is a newer version, I will try it, and if Kb891711
doesn't work, my question will stand; otherwise, I will have things working
again.

--
Norman
~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint

Sounds like an excellent test of the graphics theory Norman. Please let us
know what you find.

"N. Miller" wrote in message
om...
In article , Earl says...

snip

Once 891711 has been installed, the problem seems to arise due to a
problem
with the hardware and or drivers not being able to process graphics
properly. It appears that 891711 is intercepting some of the graphic data
and "re-handling" it.

Intel systems appear to be nearly, if not completely unaffected by the
problem, which tells me that the patch was most likely tested on Intel
machines only.

snip

Interesting. I have two computers. Both are nearly identical; check my
post:

Subject: KB891711.EXE
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:21:06 -0800
Message-ID:

Now, having others point to graphics as a suspect, I will add this (and I
thought I had brought both computers to the same level on the graphics
drivers; I was wrong):

Megumi (kb891711 causes crashes):
Intel 82810 graphics chip; Intel driver version: 4.13.01.3196

Naomi (kb891711 doesn't cause crashes):
Intel 82810 graphics chip; Intel driver version: 4.13.01.3004

Now to head over to the Intel site and see if anything new is available. I
wonder; is it better to leave Kb891711 off, or to roll back the driver to
an
earlier version? If there is a newer version, I will try it, and if
Kb891711
doesn't work, my question will stand; otherwise, I will have things
working
again.

--
Norman
~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint

Thank you very much, Earl.

I urge you to copy this post to Jim Eshelman using the Feedback tool at his
website:
www.aumha.org
He has much better connections with MS than I do.

The 891711 problem is now clearly NOT confined to AMD cpu's.
I am not aware of any reported extensive correlations with the video adapter
or its driver yet, just some vague murmerings. We should explore this
possibility.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"Earl" wrote in message
...
Jack,

The problem absolutely affects Win2k as well as WinME (see my threads from
last month in the microsoft.public.win2000.windows_update forum).
Apparently
everyone was still oblivious to this issue in February, as not one person
responded to any of my threads. In any event ...

Once 891711 has been installed, the problem seems to arise due to a
problem
with the hardware and or drivers not being able to process graphics
properly. It appears that 891711 is intercepting some of the graphic data
and "re-handling" it.

Intel systems appear to be nearly, if not completely unaffected by the
problem, which tells me that the patch was most likely tested on Intel
machines only.

Non-Intel hardware appears to be solely or mostly affected by this
problem.
In particular, older AMD systems are universally afflicted. I can only
speculate that this has something to do with the way interrupts are
handled
at the processor. In any event, further testing on this patch with
non-Intel
systems needs to be done.

This is not a software issue, although many deceptive symptoms make it
appear so. Exiting game software, running your cursor over hot-links,
anti-virus activity, changing windows, stacking windows, etc. -- any
number
of graphic related events will cause the reboot or "BSOD". In many cases,
an
891711-afflicted system will apparently reboot itself for no reason at
all.

Hopefully you can send that information "upstairs".


"Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message
...
Ditto, Bill. Thank you.
-------
May I report that I've just heard from Jim Eshelman about the KB891711
problem.
He is unable to offer anything new to our discussion.
His recommendation is to disable or uninstall the update until MS offers
a
new fix.
He seems to think the problem is restricted to Win9X machines, but I
think
some W2K boxes have been hit, too.
I have no idea yet what the cause may be, despite several earlier
promising suggestions.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------

SNIP

Please post back details of your findings which will be of interest to
those similarly affected by this problem. It might be a good idea if
those reporting on 891711 (problem or not) were to include details of
their video card and driver as well as their cpu. To help allay one of my
suspicions do both of your systems have the same bios revision?
--
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
In memory of a very dear friend, Windows MVP Alex Nichol

Mike Maltby MS-MVP



N. Miller wrote:

Interesting. I have two computers. Both are nearly identical; check
my post:

Subject: KB891711.EXE
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:21:06 -0800
Message-ID:

Now, having others point to graphics as a suspect, I will add this
(and I thought I had brought both computers to the same level on the
graphics drivers; I was wrong):

Megumi (kb891711 causes crashes):
Intel 82810 graphics chip; Intel driver version: 4.13.01.3196

Naomi (kb891711 doesn't cause crashes):
Intel 82810 graphics chip; Intel driver version: 4.13.01.3004

Now to head over to the Intel site and see if anything new is
available. I wonder; is it better to leave Kb891711 off, or to roll
back the driver to an earlier version? If there is a newer version, I
will try it, and if Kb891711 doesn't work, my question will stand;
otherwise, I will have things working again.

Sure, Earl - I think we all acknowledge that fact. But that the ScanDefrag
Team can respond so quickly with a couple of work-around options, does tend
to put others to shame g

Mart


"Earl" wrote in message
...
The issue has nothing to do with ScanDefrag; it is merely one of many
programs that will trigger a reboot due to 891711 on machines that have
the affected hardware.

"Justin Thyme" wrote in message
...

"Justin Thyme" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Moore" wrote in message
...
Ken, have you checked the ScanDefrag logs to see what has
changed and/or notified the programs authors ??



I have followed your suggestion and will advise here if I hear anything
from
the ScanDefrag group.

Thanx,

Ken Bland



I received a prompt reply from the ScanDefrag group. Here is the answer:

There have been numerous problems with that patch, and has been
all over the newsgroups. Hopefully MS will fix it soon, and integrate
it into the kernel instead of loading it as a service. In the meantime
you may not want to use Restrictive mode, or disable the patch
temporarily using msconfig startup (tab), when running ScanDefrag.

Thanks
Bill Blanton

I was having problems cured by restore;
Video Card = S3 Graphics Savage/Ix
Driver = S3 Graphics, Inc 4.12.01.7107-7.15.28
Processor = Intel PIII 1 gig.

Patrick

"Mike M" wrote in message
...
Please post back details of your findings which will be of interest to
those similarly affected by this problem. It might be a good idea if
those reporting on 891711 (problem or not) were to include details of
their video card and driver as well as their cpu. To help allay one of my
suspicions do both of your systems have the same bios revision?
--
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
In memory of a very dear friend, Windows MVP Alex Nichol

Mike Maltby MS-MVP



N. Miller wrote:

Interesting. I have two computers. Both are nearly identical; check
my post:

Subject: KB891711.EXE
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:21:06 -0800
Message-ID:

Now, having others point to graphics as a suspect, I will add this
(and I thought I had brought both computers to the same level on the
graphics drivers; I was wrong):

Megumi (kb891711 causes crashes):
Intel 82810 graphics chip; Intel driver version: 4.13.01.3196

Naomi (kb891711 doesn't cause crashes):
Intel 82810 graphics chip; Intel driver version: 4.13.01.3004

Now to head over to the Intel site and see if anything new is
available. I wonder; is it better to leave Kb891711 off, or to roll
back the driver to an earlier version? If there is a newer version, I
will try it, and if Kb891711 doesn't work, my question will stand;
otherwise, I will have things working again.

Thank you, Patrick.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"Patrick Casher" wrote in message
...
I was having problems cured by restore;
Video Card = S3 Graphics Savage/Ix
Driver = S3 Graphics, Inc 4.12.01.7107-7.15.28
Processor = Intel PIII 1 gig.

Patrick

"Mike M" wrote in message
...
Please post back details of your findings which will be of interest to
those similarly affected by this problem. It might be a good idea if
those reporting on 891711 (problem or not) were to include details of
their video card and driver as well as their cpu. To help allay one of
my
suspicions do both of your systems have the same bios revision?
--
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
In memory of a very dear friend, Windows MVP Alex Nichol

Mike Maltby MS-MVP



N. Miller wrote:

Interesting. I have two computers. Both are nearly identical; check
my post:

Subject: KB891711.EXE
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:21:06 -0800
Message-ID:

Now, having others point to graphics as a suspect, I will add this
(and I thought I had brought both computers to the same level on the
graphics drivers; I was wrong):

Megumi (kb891711 causes crashes):
Intel 82810 graphics chip; Intel driver version: 4.13.01.3196

Naomi (kb891711 doesn't cause crashes):
Intel 82810 graphics chip; Intel driver version: 4.13.01.3004

Now to head over to the Intel site and see if anything new is
available. I wonder; is it better to leave Kb891711 off, or to roll
back the driver to an earlier version? If there is a newer version, I
will try it, and if Kb891711 doesn't work, my question will stand;
otherwise, I will have things working again.

Don't know if this helps at all but I was still having problems even after
deleting aforesaid "patch" but I then deleted and redownloaded Java (for a
ifferent reason regarding a program I was running) from Sun and the system
seems to be far more stable since although open windows hang around for a
while after closing them). At least I haven't had a permenant "freeze" since.
I have a pentium lll 866 and 128ram an the system uses an Intel 82810E
graphics controller chip.
Hillneerg

"Mart" wrote:

Sure, Earl - I think we all acknowledge that fact. But that the ScanDefrag
Team can respond so quickly with a couple of work-around options, does tend
to put others to shame g

Mart


"Earl" wrote in message
...
The issue has nothing to do with ScanDefrag; it is merely one of many
programs that will trigger a reboot due to 891711 on machines that have
the affected hardware.

"Justin Thyme" wrote in message
...

"Justin Thyme" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Moore" wrote in message
...
Ken, have you checked the ScanDefrag logs to see what has
changed and/or notified the programs authors ??



I have followed your suggestion and will advise here if I hear anything
from
the ScanDefrag group.

Thanx,

Ken Bland



I received a prompt reply from the ScanDefrag group. Here is the answer:

There have been numerous problems with that patch, and has been
all over the newsgroups. Hopefully MS will fix it soon, and integrate
it into the kernel instead of loading it as a service. In the meantime
you may not want to use Restrictive mode, or disable the patch
temporarily using msconfig startup (tab), when running ScanDefrag.

Thanks
Bill Blanton

Jack,

I did copy the body of my most recent post on this subject to Jim.

I've not yet seen this issue arise on any Intel machines, yet as I indicated
in my post, I've not seen any evidence to indicate this was an absolute
exclusion. But I've also not seen any posts that convince me that this patch
is affecting Intel machines. Some issues that folks are attributing to
891711 are simply unrelated to this patch (I would certainly not apply this
patch to a system that already had issues!). However, given the diversity of
hardware that Intel has created over the years, it would not totally
surprise me. Yet the instruction sets in the processors differ more between
Intel and non-Intel than across various generations of Intel chips. It's
been a number of years, but if I recall correctly, the interrupts are wired
differently also on non-Intel CPUs. Whether or not that is the issue, I
doubt we'll ever hear. I suspect Microsoft will simply release an updated
patch at some point.

"Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message
...
Thank you very much, Earl.

I urge you to copy this post to Jim Eshelman using the Feedback tool at
his
website:
www.aumha.org
He has much better connections with MS than I do.

The 891711 problem is now clearly NOT confined to AMD cpu's.
I am not aware of any reported extensive correlations with the video
adapter
or its driver yet, just some vague murmerings. We should explore this
possibility.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"Earl" wrote in message
...
Jack,

The problem absolutely affects Win2k as well as WinME (see my threads
from
last month in the microsoft.public.win2000.windows_update forum).
Apparently
everyone was still oblivious to this issue in February, as not one person
responded to any of my threads. In any event ...

Once 891711 has been installed, the problem seems to arise due to a
problem
with the hardware and or drivers not being able to process graphics
properly. It appears that 891711 is intercepting some of the graphic data
and "re-handling" it.

Intel systems appear to be nearly, if not completely unaffected by the
problem, which tells me that the patch was most likely tested on Intel
machines only.

Non-Intel hardware appears to be solely or mostly affected by this
problem.
In particular, older AMD systems are universally afflicted. I can only
speculate that this has something to do with the way interrupts are
handled
at the processor. In any event, further testing on this patch with
non-Intel
systems needs to be done.

This is not a software issue, although many deceptive symptoms make it
appear so. Exiting game software, running your cursor over hot-links,
anti-virus activity, changing windows, stacking windows, etc. -- any
number
of graphic related events will cause the reboot or "BSOD". In many cases,
an
891711-afflicted system will apparently reboot itself for no reason at
all.

Hopefully you can send that information "upstairs".


"Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message
...
Ditto, Bill. Thank you.
-------
May I report that I've just heard from Jim Eshelman about the KB891711
problem.
He is unable to offer anything new to our discussion.
His recommendation is to disable or uninstall the update until MS
offers
a
new fix.
He seems to think the problem is restricted to Win9X machines, but I
think
some W2K boxes have been hit, too.
I have no idea yet what the cause may be, despite several earlier
promising suggestions.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------

SNIP

Thank you, Earl. Jim can get it to the right people.
And see Norman Miller's very helpful recent posts about this issue.

I believe we have several reports of trouble on Celeron machines now.
Most problematic machines seem to be older, slower boxes, running Win9X or
W2K.

And we must keep in mind that there may be more than one cause.

Probable date for a new patch is April 12, if past WU history is any guide.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"Earl" wrote in message
...
Jack,

I did copy the body of my most recent post on this subject to Jim.

I've not yet seen this issue arise on any Intel machines, yet as I
indicated
in my post, I've not seen any evidence to indicate this was an absolute
exclusion. But I've also not seen any posts that convince me that this
patch
is affecting Intel machines. Some issues that folks are attributing to
891711 are simply unrelated to this patch (I would certainly not apply
this
patch to a system that already had issues!). However, given the diversity
of
hardware that Intel has created over the years, it would not totally
surprise me. Yet the instruction sets in the processors differ more
between
Intel and non-Intel than across various generations of Intel chips. It's
been a number of years, but if I recall correctly, the interrupts are
wired
differently also on non-Intel CPUs. Whether or not that is the issue, I
doubt we'll ever hear. I suspect Microsoft will simply release an updated
patch at some point.

"Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message
...
Thank you very much, Earl.

I urge you to copy this post to Jim Eshelman using the Feedback tool at
his
website:
www.aumha.org
He has much better connections with MS than I do.

The 891711 problem is now clearly NOT confined to AMD cpu's.
I am not aware of any reported extensive correlations with the video
adapter
or its driver yet, just some vague murmerings. We should explore this
possibility.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"Earl" wrote in message
...
Jack,

The problem absolutely affects Win2k as well as WinME (see my threads
from
last month in the microsoft.public.win2000.windows_update forum).
Apparently
everyone was still oblivious to this issue in February, as not one
person
responded to any of my threads. In any event ...

Once 891711 has been installed, the problem seems to arise due to a
problem
with the hardware and or drivers not being able to process graphics
properly. It appears that 891711 is intercepting some of the graphic
data
and "re-handling" it.

Intel systems appear to be nearly, if not completely unaffected by the
problem, which tells me that the patch was most likely tested on Intel
machines only.

Non-Intel hardware appears to be solely or mostly affected by this
problem.
In particular, older AMD systems are universally afflicted. I can only
speculate that this has something to do with the way interrupts are
handled
at the processor. In any event, further testing on this patch with
non-Intel
systems needs to be done.

This is not a software issue, although many deceptive symptoms make it
appear so. Exiting game software, running your cursor over hot-links,
anti-virus activity, changing windows, stacking windows, etc. -- any
number
of graphic related events will cause the reboot or "BSOD". In many
cases,
an
891711-afflicted system will apparently reboot itself for no reason at
all.

Hopefully you can send that information "upstairs".


"Jack E Martinelli" wrote in message
...
Ditto, Bill. Thank you.
-------
May I report that I've just heard from Jim Eshelman about the
KB891711
problem.
He is unable to offer anything new to our discussion.
His recommendation is to disable or uninstall the update until MS
offers
a
new fix.
He seems to think the problem is restricted to Win9X machines, but I
think
some W2K boxes have been hit, too.
I have no idea yet what the cause may be, despite several earlier
promising suggestions.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------

SNIP