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How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 5th 05, 12:28 AM
Jon Danniken
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

Okay, I'll try to spell this out more clearly for you guys.

When I boot into this machine, I have 30Mb of unused physical memory.

When I look at the "Properties" of a 20Mb .wav file, the unused physical
memory drops to 15Mb.

When I close the "Properties" windows, the unused physical memory stays at
15Mb.

If I open 20Mb file (for instance, in SndRec32), the unused physical memory
drops to 0, and a 5Mb page file is used.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hence my original question: How can I get Win98 to release memory after an
application (or the Properties window) is closed?

Note: As I stated as the *first thing* in my original post, adding more RAM
is not an option at the current time; please do not waste time by belaboring
this point.

Thanks,

Jon

  #12  
Old November 5th 05, 03:56 AM
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

You don't get it? If an application does not free up the used memory,
Windows can not free up the memory to use for other applications. Hence, a
Windows restart is the only way to get the memory back.

Like I said, try some other programs. Try searching for a program call
dbPowerAmp. This program even lets you save audio in mp3 format.

HTH...
Chris.


"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Okay, I'll try to spell this out more clearly for you guys.

When I boot into this machine, I have 30Mb of unused physical memory.

When I look at the "Properties" of a 20Mb .wav file, the unused physical
memory drops to 15Mb.

When I close the "Properties" windows, the unused physical memory stays at
15Mb.

If I open 20Mb file (for instance, in SndRec32), the unused physical

memory
drops to 0, and a 5Mb page file is used.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hence my original question: How can I get Win98 to release memory after an
application (or the Properties window) is closed?

Note: As I stated as the *first thing* in my original post, adding more

RAM
is not an option at the current time; please do not waste time by

belaboring
this point.

Thanks,

Jon



  #13  
Old November 5th 05, 03:56 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.performance
Chris[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

You don't get it? If an application does not free up the used memory,
Windows can not free up the memory to use for other applications. Hence, a
Windows restart is the only way to get the memory back.

Like I said, try some other programs. Try searching for a program call
dbPowerAmp. This program even lets you save audio in mp3 format.

HTH...
Chris.


"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Okay, I'll try to spell this out more clearly for you guys.

When I boot into this machine, I have 30Mb of unused physical memory.

When I look at the "Properties" of a 20Mb .wav file, the unused physical
memory drops to 15Mb.

When I close the "Properties" windows, the unused physical memory stays at
15Mb.

If I open 20Mb file (for instance, in SndRec32), the unused physical

memory
drops to 0, and a 5Mb page file is used.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hence my original question: How can I get Win98 to release memory after an
application (or the Properties window) is closed?

Note: As I stated as the *first thing* in my original post, adding more

RAM
is not an option at the current time; please do not waste time by

belaboring
this point.

Thanks,

Jon



  #14  
Old November 6th 05, 06:01 AM
Jeff Richards
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

There is a difference between released memory and unused physical memory.
The application is releasing memory when it ends. However, Windows does not
mark all the released memory as unused physical memory, because it knows the
contents (at least for some of it). Windows tries to track the contents of
as much memory as possible, because this improves performance. You can see
this if you start your application, close it, and start it again. The
second startup is faster. Although the program released its memory, Windows
kept track of the contents and was therefore able to re-load the application
faster.

Applications that fail to release their memory are a problem, but it is a
very rare problem. You need a much more sophisticated monitor than the one
you are using to find it. You don't want to force Windows to return the
released memory to unused physical memory because that will prevent it from
performing the optimisations (when possible) while not providing any
performance improvement.

The example you have quoted is not a valid comparison. Instead, compare the
physical memory and swap file usage after loading the large file for two
cases: one where you have done the prior properties enquiry, and the other
without doing it.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Okay, I'll try to spell this out more clearly for you guys.

When I boot into this machine, I have 30Mb of unused physical memory.

When I look at the "Properties" of a 20Mb .wav file, the unused physical
memory drops to 15Mb.

When I close the "Properties" windows, the unused physical memory stays at
15Mb.

If I open 20Mb file (for instance, in SndRec32), the unused physical
memory
drops to 0, and a 5Mb page file is used.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hence my original question: How can I get Win98 to release memory after an
application (or the Properties window) is closed?

Note: As I stated as the *first thing* in my original post, adding more
RAM
is not an option at the current time; please do not waste time by
belaboring
this point.

Thanks,

Jon



  #15  
Old November 6th 05, 06:01 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.performance
Jeff Richards
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,526
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

There is a difference between released memory and unused physical memory.
The application is releasing memory when it ends. However, Windows does not
mark all the released memory as unused physical memory, because it knows the
contents (at least for some of it). Windows tries to track the contents of
as much memory as possible, because this improves performance. You can see
this if you start your application, close it, and start it again. The
second startup is faster. Although the program released its memory, Windows
kept track of the contents and was therefore able to re-load the application
faster.

Applications that fail to release their memory are a problem, but it is a
very rare problem. You need a much more sophisticated monitor than the one
you are using to find it. You don't want to force Windows to return the
released memory to unused physical memory because that will prevent it from
performing the optimisations (when possible) while not providing any
performance improvement.

The example you have quoted is not a valid comparison. Instead, compare the
physical memory and swap file usage after loading the large file for two
cases: one where you have done the prior properties enquiry, and the other
without doing it.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Okay, I'll try to spell this out more clearly for you guys.

When I boot into this machine, I have 30Mb of unused physical memory.

When I look at the "Properties" of a 20Mb .wav file, the unused physical
memory drops to 15Mb.

When I close the "Properties" windows, the unused physical memory stays at
15Mb.

If I open 20Mb file (for instance, in SndRec32), the unused physical
memory
drops to 0, and a 5Mb page file is used.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hence my original question: How can I get Win98 to release memory after an
application (or the Properties window) is closed?

Note: As I stated as the *first thing* in my original post, adding more
RAM
is not an option at the current time; please do not waste time by
belaboring
this point.

Thanks,

Jon



  #16  
Old November 6th 05, 08:47 AM
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?


"Jeff Richards" wrote in message
...
There is a difference between released memory and unused physical memory.
The application is releasing memory when it ends. However, Windows does

not
mark all the released memory as unused physical memory, because it knows

the
contents (at least for some of it). Windows tries to track the contents of
as much memory as possible, because this improves performance. You can see
this if you start your application, close it, and start it again. The
second startup is faster. Although the program released its memory,

Windows
kept track of the contents and was therefore able to re-load the

application
faster.


"Although the program released its memory, Windows kept track of the
contents and was therefore able to re-load the application faster."

What a bunch of rubish! Windows does not keep track of what memory any
given application allocates! The reason the application loads faster the
second time around is because of "File Cache".

File Cache is used by Windows to store applications ( or files ) which have
been read ( most of the time ) from the hard drive. So if you do close an
application and open it again, that application is read from memory instead
of a disk. Any memory which is allocated once the application is up and
running, takes the same amount of time to allocate as it did the first time
the application was launched.

Applications that fail to release their memory are a problem, but it is a
very rare problem


Another false statement. MOST applications out there which were not created
with a programming language like JAVA ( which handles the memory
management ) are all prone to memory leaks. The only question is how bad is
the leak? The reason for this is because most programmers use a method of
software engineering forced onto them by management called "Had to be done
yesterday". Most of a programmers time is spent on programing and very
little time is spent on software engineering.

The proof that this is more then a rare problem is the very application he's
using.



  #17  
Old November 6th 05, 08:47 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.performance
Chris[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?


"Jeff Richards" wrote in message
...
There is a difference between released memory and unused physical memory.
The application is releasing memory when it ends. However, Windows does

not
mark all the released memory as unused physical memory, because it knows

the
contents (at least for some of it). Windows tries to track the contents of
as much memory as possible, because this improves performance. You can see
this if you start your application, close it, and start it again. The
second startup is faster. Although the program released its memory,

Windows
kept track of the contents and was therefore able to re-load the

application
faster.


"Although the program released its memory, Windows kept track of the
contents and was therefore able to re-load the application faster."

What a bunch of rubish! Windows does not keep track of what memory any
given application allocates! The reason the application loads faster the
second time around is because of "File Cache".

File Cache is used by Windows to store applications ( or files ) which have
been read ( most of the time ) from the hard drive. So if you do close an
application and open it again, that application is read from memory instead
of a disk. Any memory which is allocated once the application is up and
running, takes the same amount of time to allocate as it did the first time
the application was launched.

Applications that fail to release their memory are a problem, but it is a
very rare problem


Another false statement. MOST applications out there which were not created
with a programming language like JAVA ( which handles the memory
management ) are all prone to memory leaks. The only question is how bad is
the leak? The reason for this is because most programmers use a method of
software engineering forced onto them by management called "Had to be done
yesterday". Most of a programmers time is spent on programing and very
little time is spent on software engineering.

The proof that this is more then a rare problem is the very application he's
using.



  #18  
Old November 6th 05, 11:27 AM
Jon Danniken
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

Thank you, Jeff; I appreciate that you read my query and I also appreciate
your reality-based explanation as to what exactly is going in this this
case. The mechanism makes sense now, and I appreciate knowing this.

You asked about about the memory usage in a different case; here it is:

Start -- 30 Mb unused RAM
Open 20Mb file -- 10 Mb unused RAM
Close 20Mb. file -- 30 Mb unused RAM
Check Properties of 20Mb file -- 15 Mb. unused RAM
Close Properties -- *** no change in unused RAM ***
Open 20Mb. file -- 0Mb. unused RAM, 5 Mb Swap

I guess my question at this point would be asking how to turn *off* the
"optimization" of Windows to that it returns the
released memory to unused physical memory after checking the properties.
(Or maybe I should just stop checking properties lol).

While I appreciate that the optimizations are handy in most circumstances, I
would much rather wait a little bit for the application to load than have
what little memory I have taken up (IMHO) by the "optimization". This
machine is currently only doing a few specific tasks, so I am willing (and
would prefer) to accept this mode of operation.

Is this possible, and if so, how?

Thanks again,

Jon

"Jeff Richards" wrote:
There is a difference between released memory and unused physical memory.
The application is releasing memory when it ends. However, Windows does

not
mark all the released memory as unused physical memory, because it knows

the
contents (at least for some of it). Windows tries to track the contents of
as much memory as possible, because this improves performance. You can see
this if you start your application, close it, and start it again. The
second startup is faster. Although the program released its memory,

Windows
kept track of the contents and was therefore able to re-load the

application
faster.

Applications that fail to release their memory are a problem, but it is a


very rare problem. You need a much more sophisticated monitor than the one
you are using to find it. You don't want to force Windows to return the
released memory to unused physical memory because that will prevent it

from
performing the optimisations (when possible) while not providing any
performance improvement.

The example you have quoted is not a valid comparison. Instead, compare

the
physical memory and swap file usage after loading the large file for two
cases: one where you have done the prior properties enquiry, and the other
without doing it.


"Jon Danniken" wrote:
Okay, I'll try to spell this out more clearly for you guys.

When I boot into this machine, I have 30Mb of unused physical memory.

When I look at the "Properties" of a 20Mb .wav file, the unused physical
memory drops to 15Mb.

When I close the "Properties" windows, the unused physical memory stays

at
15Mb.

If I open 20Mb file (for instance, in SndRec32), the unused physical
memory
drops to 0, and a 5Mb page file is used.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hence my original question: How can I get Win98 to release memory after

an
application (or the Properties window) is closed?

Note: As I stated as the *first thing* in my original post, adding more
RAM
is not an option at the current time; please do not waste time by
belaboring
this point.


  #19  
Old November 6th 05, 11:27 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.performance
Jon Danniken
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?

Thank you, Jeff; I appreciate that you read my query and I also appreciate
your reality-based explanation as to what exactly is going in this this
case. The mechanism makes sense now, and I appreciate knowing this.

You asked about about the memory usage in a different case; here it is:

Start -- 30 Mb unused RAM
Open 20Mb file -- 10 Mb unused RAM
Close 20Mb. file -- 30 Mb unused RAM
Check Properties of 20Mb file -- 15 Mb. unused RAM
Close Properties -- *** no change in unused RAM ***
Open 20Mb. file -- 0Mb. unused RAM, 5 Mb Swap

I guess my question at this point would be asking how to turn *off* the
"optimization" of Windows to that it returns the
released memory to unused physical memory after checking the properties.
(Or maybe I should just stop checking properties lol).

While I appreciate that the optimizations are handy in most circumstances, I
would much rather wait a little bit for the application to load than have
what little memory I have taken up (IMHO) by the "optimization". This
machine is currently only doing a few specific tasks, so I am willing (and
would prefer) to accept this mode of operation.

Is this possible, and if so, how?

Thanks again,

Jon

"Jeff Richards" wrote:
There is a difference between released memory and unused physical memory.
The application is releasing memory when it ends. However, Windows does

not
mark all the released memory as unused physical memory, because it knows

the
contents (at least for some of it). Windows tries to track the contents of
as much memory as possible, because this improves performance. You can see
this if you start your application, close it, and start it again. The
second startup is faster. Although the program released its memory,

Windows
kept track of the contents and was therefore able to re-load the

application
faster.

Applications that fail to release their memory are a problem, but it is a


very rare problem. You need a much more sophisticated monitor than the one
you are using to find it. You don't want to force Windows to return the
released memory to unused physical memory because that will prevent it

from
performing the optimisations (when possible) while not providing any
performance improvement.

The example you have quoted is not a valid comparison. Instead, compare

the
physical memory and swap file usage after loading the large file for two
cases: one where you have done the prior properties enquiry, and the other
without doing it.


"Jon Danniken" wrote:
Okay, I'll try to spell this out more clearly for you guys.

When I boot into this machine, I have 30Mb of unused physical memory.

When I look at the "Properties" of a 20Mb .wav file, the unused physical
memory drops to 15Mb.

When I close the "Properties" windows, the unused physical memory stays

at
15Mb.

If I open 20Mb file (for instance, in SndRec32), the unused physical
memory
drops to 0, and a 5Mb page file is used.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hence my original question: How can I get Win98 to release memory after

an
application (or the Properties window) is closed?

Note: As I stated as the *first thing* in my original post, adding more
RAM
is not an option at the current time; please do not waste time by
belaboring
this point.


  #20  
Old November 6th 05, 04:29 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.performance
Buffalo
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 182
Default How can I get Win98 to release memory when an application is closed?


"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am running Win98 on a box with 64Mb RAM, and adding more RAM is not an
option at this time.

When I open up an application, for instance Window's Sound Recorder, it uses
a certain amount of RAM. The problem is that when the application is
closed, the RAM memory which it used is not released.

I noticed this by using "Windows System Monitor". In the category "Memory
Manager, Unused Physical Memory", it shows a certain amount of "free" RAM.
When I open up the application, it becomes lowered, but when I close the
application, it does not return to the "pre application" amount.

This is leading to the swapfile being used, which has undesired
consequences, especially in regards to using Sound Recorder to make a
recording.

Is there a method of releasing this RAM after an application which used it
is closed?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Jon


There are some free programs that will 'release' ram, although these programs
require some ram themselves.
Most msvp here will tell you that these programs are useless or some even call
them 'crapware'.
Try one for yourself and see if it 'really' helps and post back.
Otherwise:
Close down all unnecessary running programs, including your
anti-virus,(firewall,anti-adware) etc when using Sound Recorder to make a
recording.
Of course, don't be connected to the Internet and only use pre-scanned files.
This should make more physical ram available, even if not shown as unused.
Do you use a defrag that allows putting the swap file at the start of the C:
drive?
PS: How much ram does Sound Recorder list as the minimum ram required in Win98?


 




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