destorying the hard drive

"Franc Zabkar" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:48:40 -0600, Jim Madsen put
finger to keyboard and composed:

My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She says no
one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn it
into the local recycling place.

She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if
reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 computer, I
took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't
want to do that.

She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD and
dispose of the computer for $50.00.

Any suggestions?

Jim

Use a "zero fill" utility, eg ...


http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.js...D&locale=en-GB

- Franc Zabkar



This is the best advice yet.

If the drive is zero filled...not only is the data gone...
it cannot be recovered.

Disk Wipe utility - FREE

Disk Redactor is a FREE utility that prevents restoration of the old
(deleted) files at your disks. All free space at your hard disk will be
wiped from old information. This is necessary because the delete function
does not clear the space where deleted file is located and just marks the
entry in directory (folder) that the file is deleted.

Security is very important and this disk wipe utility is FREE

Supported: Windows 95, 98, Me, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows
Server 2003, Windows Vista.
___________

http://www.cezeo.com/products/free/?inref=disk-redactor
Format the drive then wipe the free space,
works.

--
-- -- -- -- --
Adaware http://www.lavasoft.de
spybot http://www.safer-networking.org
AVG free antivirus http://free.grisoft.com/
Etrust/Vet/CA.online Antivirus scan
http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/virusinfo/scan.aspx
Super Antispyware http://www.superantispyware.com/
Panda online AntiVirus scan http://www.activescan.com
Panda online AntiSpyware Scan
http://www.pandasoftware.com/virus_info/spyware/test/
Catalog of removal tools (1)
http://www.pandasoftware.com/download/utilities/
Catalog of removal tools (2)
http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/n...aspx?CID=40387
Trouble Shooting guide to Windows http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/
Blocking Unwanted Parasites with a Hosts file
http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
links provided as a courtesy, read all instructions on the pages before
use
Grateful thanks to the authors/webmasters
_
"Gary S. Terhune" none wrote in message
...
Everything is still left there except the table of contents (FAT). All
FORMAT does is write a new FAT. But it's *easy* to recover data after a
format, ALL of the data. Hell, with RTT, I can recover significant data
from
20 formats back.

And why *aren't* you talking about "special snoop programs"? I have a very
good one and lots are sold for under $100. Why aren't you worried about
someone using one of those?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Come again? (And no, I'm not talking about someone using special
snoop
programs). If you boot up on a DOS floppy, and do a format c: ,
what's
really left there?

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
No, it won't. Not even close.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Reformatting it will destroy all the data.

Jim Madsen wrote:
My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She says
no
one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn it
into the local recycling place.

She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if
reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 computer,
I
took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't
want to do that.

She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD
and
dispose of the computer for $50.00.

Any suggestions?

Jim

philo wrote:

Use a "zero fill" utility, eg ...

This is the best advice yet.

No, it isin't.

The best advice was already given.

Open the computer and remove the hard drive. Throw the rest of the
machine away, give it away - whatever.

If the contents are important enough to be worried about, then
presumably you'd want to copy them to another system.

If the contents are NOT important enough to migrate them to another
system, then this whole thread is pointless.

I have 20 or 30 old hard drives - many of them 10+ years old and under
10 gb in size. Most of them fit into a single shoe-box.

On Mar 20, 6:05*pm, "philo" wrote:
"Franc Zabkar" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:48:40 -0600, Jim Madsen put
finger to keyboard and composed:

My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. *She says no
one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn it
into the local recycling place.

She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. *I wonder if
reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? *My old W95 computer, I
took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't
want to do that.

She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD and
dispose of the computer for $50.00.

Any suggestions?

Jim

Use a "zero fill" utility, eg ...

http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.js...c970ce010VgnVC...



- Franc Zabkar

This is the best advice yet.

If the drive is zero filled...not only is the data gone...
it cannot be recovered.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is
totally incorrect. Gary's cheap tools can recover this data even if
zero filled multiple times.

For the average guy, zero filling is about as far as one needs to go.
Bart's free Disktool will do this and also overwrite the disk with
test patterns over and over just to be double sure the average guy is
not going to be able to recover your credit card number for example -
but it can still be done by those with the more expensive tools.
http://www.nu2.nu/utils/

Reformatting and even FDISK will not delete the data on the drive. If your
daughter is concerned about sensitive information remaining on the disk then
she needs to physically overwrite the whole of the disk surface. This will
make it effectively inaccessible to anyone.

See, for instance:
http://pcworld.about.com/magazine/2105p022id110012.htm

The DOS utility is probably the best option, while the two other free
options are probably suitable, but if you are a bit technically inclined the
low level format is also easy and effective.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"Jim Madsen" wrote in message
...
My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She says no
one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn it into
the local recycling place.

She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if
reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 computer, I
took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't want
to do that.

She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD and
dispose of the computer for $50.00.

Any suggestions?

Jim

I was talking about the utilities that recover data, AlmostBob.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"AlmostBob" wrote in message
...
Disk Wipe utility - FREE

Disk Redactor is a FREE utility that prevents restoration of the old
(deleted) files at your disks. All free space at your hard disk will be
wiped from old information. This is necessary because the delete function
does not clear the space where deleted file is located and just marks the
entry in directory (folder) that the file is deleted.

Security is very important and this disk wipe utility is FREE

Supported: Windows 95, 98, Me, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP,
Windows
Server 2003, Windows Vista.
___________

http://www.cezeo.com/products/free/?inref=disk-redactor
Format the drive then wipe the free space,
works.

--
-- -- -- -- --
Adaware http://www.lavasoft.de
spybot http://www.safer-networking.org
AVG free antivirus http://free.grisoft.com/
Etrust/Vet/CA.online Antivirus scan
http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/virusinfo/scan.aspx
Super Antispyware http://www.superantispyware.com/
Panda online AntiVirus scan http://www.activescan.com
Panda online AntiSpyware Scan
http://www.pandasoftware.com/virus_info/spyware/test/
Catalog of removal tools (1)
http://www.pandasoftware.com/download/utilities/
Catalog of removal tools (2)
http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/n...aspx?CID=40387
Trouble Shooting guide to Windows http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/
Blocking Unwanted Parasites with a Hosts file
http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
links provided as a courtesy, read all instructions on the pages before
use
Grateful thanks to the authors/webmasters
_
"Gary S. Terhune" none wrote in message
...
Everything is still left there except the table of contents (FAT). All
FORMAT does is write a new FAT. But it's *easy* to recover data after a
format, ALL of the data. Hell, with RTT, I can recover significant data
from
20 formats back.

And why *aren't* you talking about "special snoop programs"? I have a
very
good one and lots are sold for under $100. Why aren't you worried about
someone using one of those?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Come again? (And no, I'm not talking about someone using special
snoop
programs). If you boot up on a DOS floppy, and do a format c: ,
what's
really left there?

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
No, it won't. Not even close.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Reformatting it will destroy all the data.

Jim Madsen wrote:
My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She
says
no
one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn
it
into the local recycling place.

She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if
reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 computer,
I
took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't
want to do that.

She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD
and
dispose of the computer for $50.00.

Any suggestions?

Jim

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:21:25 -0700 (PDT), Lee put
finger to keyboard and composed:

... your advice on zero filled data is
totally incorrect. Gary's cheap tools can recover this data even if
zero filled multiple times.

How is it possible to recover data without the use of forensic tools?
(I'm assuming that Gary doesn't have these.) Surely if a particular
sector has been filled with zeroes, even if only once, then any time
your OS reads this sector, your drive's uP will retrieve those exact
same zeroes. I would think that in order to retrieve any previous
data, you would need special access to the servo and to the read/write
heads, and to bypass the uP's control of the drive.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:41:24 -0700, "Gary S. Terhune" none put
finger to keyboard and composed:

Everything is still left there except the table of contents (FAT). All
FORMAT does is write a new FAT. But it's *easy* to recover data after a
format, ALL of the data. Hell, with RTT, I can recover significant data from
20 formats back.

And why *aren't* you talking about "special snoop programs"? I have a very
good one and lots are sold for under $100. Why aren't you worried about
someone using one of those?

Typing "help format" at the DOS prompt documents the function of
several switches, including /U, which is supposed to "destroy all
existing data":

================================================== ==================
/U
Specifies an unconditional format of a disk. Unconditional
formatting destroys all existing data on a disk and prevents you from
later "unformatting" the disk. You should use /U if you have received
read and write errors during use of a disk. For information about
unformatting a disk, see the UNFORMAT command.
================================================== ==================

I always use this switch when formatting from the DOS prompt, but I
can't remember how it compares to a "Full" format from within the GUI.
I suspect a "full" format performs a "quick" format followed by a scan
for bad sectors.

Note that typing ...

format /?

.... at the DOS prompt does not display a /U switch, but a hex dump of
format.com shows that it is still there.

BTW, there is also an Unformat command in the old DOS help docs, but
there is no such file in the Windows\Command directory.

IIRC, the help docs can be found in the Oldmsdos directory of your
Win9x CD.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

I'm talking about the normal FULL format. Are you? NOT a "quick
format"!
I'm not obsessive about worrying about people using some special recovery
programs in such a case. If you've looked at a disk that has been full
formatted, I think you'll have a hard time finding much there.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
Everything is still left there except the table of contents (FAT). All
FORMAT does is write a new FAT. But it's *easy* to recover data after a
format, ALL of the data. Hell, with RTT, I can recover significant data
from
20 formats back.

And why *aren't* you talking about "special snoop programs"? I have a very
good one and lots are sold for under $100. Why aren't you worried about
someone using one of those?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Come again? (And no, I'm not talking about someone using special snoop
programs). If you boot up on a DOS floppy, and do a format c: , what's
really left there?

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
No, it won't. Not even close.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Reformatting it will destroy all the data.

Jim Madsen wrote:
My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She says
no
one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn it
into the local recycling place.

She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if
reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 computer, I
took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't
want to do that.

She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD and
dispose of the computer for $50.00.

Any suggestions?

Jim

No, I don't think that is true for a regular full format.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
Everything is still left there except the table of contents (FAT). All
FORMAT does is write a new FAT. But it's *easy* to recover data after a
format, ALL of the data. Hell, with RTT, I can recover significant data
from
20 formats back.

And why *aren't* you talking about "special snoop programs"? I have a very
good one and lots are sold for under $100. Why aren't you worried about
someone using one of those?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Come again? (And no, I'm not talking about someone using special snoop
programs). If you boot up on a DOS floppy, and do a format c: , what's
really left there?

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
No, it won't. Not even close.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." wrote in message
...
Reformatting it will destroy all the data.

Jim Madsen wrote:
My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She says
no
one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn it
into the local recycling place.

She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if
reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 computer, I
took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't
want to do that.

She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD and
dispose of the computer for $50.00.

Any suggestions?

Jim