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#1
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My Network Places hangs
I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router.
Everything works fine - all have internet access, each PC can ping the others. But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they used to). On the ME machine, when I run My Network Places, then choose Entire Network, it freezes and I have to Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out of it. It never shows the workgroup or any other computers. Yet it lists the shares on the other computers. I've tried deleting and reinstalling the protocols. I've tried NetBEUI and IPX, as well as TCP/IP. Any ideas? Thanks, MBD |
#2
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In article , MBD says...
I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router. Everything works fine - all have internet access, each PC can ping the others. But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they used to). On the ME machine, when I run My Network Places, then choose Entire Network, it freezes and I have to Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out of it. It never shows the workgroup or any other computers. Yet it lists the shares on the other computers. I've tried deleting and reinstalling the protocols. I've tried NetBEUI and IPX, as well as TCP/IP. Any ideas? Go back to just TCP/IP; use the 'KISS' principle. If you have ICS, just make sure that you don't bind shares to the TCP/IP protocol on the ICS adapter; that's the one that goes to the Internet. Shares should only be bound to local adapters; never to an Internet adapter. On the Me, in Network Properties, seek out the "File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks", and disable the "browse master". One of the XP computers will want to be the "browser master"; and it is best to not have the Windows Me contending for that honor. I don't have any Windows XP, or Windows 2K computers on my LAN, but I disable browse master on the Windows ME computer with less 'up time'; let the Windows Me computer which is on most often, because of running an MTA, take on that job. -- Norman ~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta ~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain ~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint |
#3
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Thanks for the tips - I've tried them all and it still
hangs. I'm beginning to wonder about my NIC. Is it possible for a NIC to work enough to browse the internet, but still be broken enough to not browse the workgroup? Two weeks ago a lightning strike nearby caused one of my other computer's NICS to completely fail. Maybe it affected this one. Otherwise, I'm at the end of my options - seems like I've tried everything. MBD -----Original Message----- In article , MBD says... I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router. Everything works fine - all have internet access, each PC can ping the others. But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they used to). On the ME machine, when I run My Network Places, then choose Entire Network, it freezes and I have to Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out of it. It never shows the workgroup or any other computers. Yet it lists the shares on the other computers. I've tried deleting and reinstalling the protocols. I've tried NetBEUI and IPX, as well as TCP/IP. Any ideas? Go back to just TCP/IP; use the 'KISS' principle. If you have ICS, just make sure that you don't bind shares to the TCP/IP protocol on the ICS adapter; that's the one that goes to the Internet. Shares should only be bound to local adapters; never to an Internet adapter. On the Me, in Network Properties, seek out the "File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks", and disable the "browse master". One of the XP computers will want to be the "browser master"; and it is best to not have the Windows Me contending for that honor. I don't have any Windows XP, or Windows 2K computers on my LAN, but I disable browse master on the Windows ME computer with less 'up time'; let the Windows Me computer which is on most often, because of running an MTA, take on that job. -- Norman ~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta ~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain ~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint . |
#4
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I would recommend you move the NIC to another slot and plug it into a
different port on the hub/switch/router with a different cable. If that does not solve the problem then I would replace the NIC. Carey "MBD" wrote in message ... Thanks for the tips - I've tried them all and it still hangs. I'm beginning to wonder about my NIC. Is it possible for a NIC to work enough to browse the internet, but still be broken enough to not browse the workgroup? Two weeks ago a lightning strike nearby caused one of my other computer's NICS to completely fail. Maybe it affected this one. Otherwise, I'm at the end of my options - seems like I've tried everything. MBD -----Original Message----- In article , MBD says... I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router. Everything works fine - all have internet access, each PC can ping the others. But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they used to). On the ME machine, when I run My Network Places, then choose Entire Network, it freezes and I have to Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out of it. It never shows the workgroup or any other computers. Yet it lists the shares on the other computers. I've tried deleting and reinstalling the protocols. I've tried NetBEUI and IPX, as well as TCP/IP. Any ideas? Go back to just TCP/IP; use the 'KISS' principle. If you have ICS, just make sure that you don't bind shares to the TCP/IP protocol on the ICS adapter; that's the one that goes to the Internet. Shares should only be bound to local adapters; never to an Internet adapter. On the Me, in Network Properties, seek out the "File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks", and disable the "browse master". One of the XP computers will want to be the "browser master"; and it is best to not have the Windows Me contending for that honor. I don't have any Windows XP, or Windows 2K computers on my LAN, but I disable browse master on the Windows ME computer with less 'up time'; let the Windows Me computer which is on most often, because of running an MTA, take on that job. -- Norman ~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta ~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain ~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint . |
#5
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You are using a concept called shotgunning to attempt the
repair. First you speculate that this might be a problem. So then you change that. It often leads to confusion and sometimes complicates the problems - makes more things non-working. Some of the unknowns - configurations in each Windows OS, NIC hardware, motherboard of each computer, network cable, hub, AC electric, etc. So we first simplify. Eliminate the hub and networking cable. Simply move two computers together, plug into same wall receptacle, and connect using an ethernet cross over cable - sold most everywhere including Radio Shack. Now load the manufacturers' comprehensive diagnostics for the NIC. Any responsible computer manufacturer provides them for free on their web site (which immediately exposes some computer manufacturers). If they don't have comprehensive diagnostics, then you must download them from the NIC manufacturer. We will test the NIC and computer hardware without other unknown and complicating variables such as Windows, the hub, etc. First the computer must talk to and echo back everything correct from the NIC. Then the NICs can be setup so that one talks to all others. This last test assumes all NICs are from the same manufacturer. Notice why we want NICs from same manufacturer. For example, one NIC worked just fine until the last intertalking test. Only then did that NIC fail after messages exceeded a certain size. You would be spitting in the wind trying to find that problem using the procedure you are currently using. Once we have performed that test, then we have proven hardware, cabling and NICs are OK. Lets expand that solution. Either have those NICs talk to each other using Windows - not other changes. Or put the hub into that 'adjacent computer' network and test the hub using comprehensive diagnostics 'intertalk' test. This is how we locate and solve problems. We confirm each part by breaking the problem down into individual parts. First we confirm hardware before we even begin to look as software - drivers or Windows configuration. And yes, by plugging both computers or hub into same wall receptacle (not just receptacles in same room or into surge protectors), then we also eliminate a building wide electric variable. But I repeat - don't even try to fix anything yet. You want to take the problem step by step. Collect information. Of course you observed those LED lights adjacent to each ethernet wire connection? They lit (at both ends) when cables were properly connected and extinguished on disconnect. Again, notice the concept. We first collect information. Only after sufficient information to suspect a problem, do we then repair that problem. Don't try to solve using a previously recommended solution called shotgunning. MBD wrote: Thanks for the tips - I've tried them all and it still hangs. I'm beginning to wonder about my NIC. Is it possible for a NIC to work enough to browse the internet, but still be broken enough to not browse the workgroup? Two weeks ago a lightning strike nearby caused one of my other computer's NICS to completely fail. Maybe it affected this one. Otherwise, I'm at the end of my options - seems like I've tried everything. MBD |
#6
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In article , MBD says...
Thanks for the tips - I've tried them all and it still hangs. I'm beginning to wonder about my NIC. Is it possible for a NIC to work enough to browse the internet, but still be broken enough to not browse the workgroup? Two weeks ago a lightning strike nearby caused one of my other computer's NICS to completely fail. Maybe it affected this one. Otherwise, I'm at the end of my options - seems like I've tried everything. Yes, it is possible. I used to work for HP as a board repair technician. I saw partial failure modes, including drivers which could loop back a signal through a test hood, and thus pass a performance test, yet fail to drive a signal down the maximum length of wire specified for the product; the board would pass our production test, yet fail in the field. Follow Carey's advice, or just buy the board. They are pretty cheap these days. -- Norman ~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta ~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain ~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint |
#7
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I have now ruled out the NIC, router, and cables. I have
reinstalled TCP/IP and NIC drivers. I've tried every combination of WINS resolution, browse master, file and print sharing, etc. I have renamed the workgroup and machines. The "bad" computer is not shutting down correctly (it freezes and I have to shut it off manually), and it sometimes doesn't boot up. I'm wondering if it is: 1. The motherboard going bad (there was a lightning strike) 2. A corrupt Windows ME file 3. A bad video card or driver MBD -----Original Message----- In article , MBD says... I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router. Everything works fine - all have internet access, each PC can ping the others. But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they used to). On the ME machine, when I run My Network Places, then choose Entire Network, it freezes and I have to Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out of it. It never shows the workgroup or any other computers. Yet it lists the shares on the other computers. I've tried deleting and reinstalling the protocols. I've tried NetBEUI and IPX, as well as TCP/IP. Any ideas? Go back to just TCP/IP; use the 'KISS' principle. If you have ICS, just make sure that you don't bind shares to the TCP/IP protocol on the ICS adapter; that's the one that goes to the Internet. Shares should only be bound to local adapters; never to an Internet adapter. On the Me, in Network Properties, seek out the "File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks", and disable the "browse master". One of the XP computers will want to be the "browser master"; and it is best to not have the Windows Me contending for that honor. I don't have any Windows XP, or Windows 2K computers on my LAN, but I disable browse master on the Windows ME computer with less 'up time'; let the Windows Me computer which is on most often, because of running an MTA, take on that job. -- Norman ~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta ~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain ~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint . |
#8
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In article , MBD says...
I have now ruled out the NIC, router, and cables. I have reinstalled TCP/IP and NIC drivers. I've tried every combination of WINS resolution, browse master, file and print sharing, etc. I have renamed the workgroup and machines. Don't even mess with the WINS Resolution stuff; it isn't necessary outside of a WinNT server/client network. In the standard Windows peer-to-peer network, it breaks things when activated. In a pure TCP/IP LAN, you don't need to mess with much. Your adapter should have the TCP/IP protocol bound to it. Otherwise nothing will work. Your TCP/IP protocol only needs a few configured settings. Bindings, Advanced, NetBIOS, and WINS Configuration tabs should be left to the defaults. The remaining tabs depend upon your network method of assigning IP addresses. The "bad" computer is not shutting down correctly (it freezes and I have to shut it off manually), and it sometimes doesn't boot up. I'm wondering if it is: 1. The motherboard going bad (there was a lightning strike) 2. A corrupt Windows ME file 3. A bad video card or driver Okay, back to the beginning. You stated: I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router. Everything works fine - all have internet access, each PC can ping the others. That tells me that all NICs, cables, and the router are working. My example of a 'partial failure' applied to a specific case where the test involved looping back a signal on a test hood; no data cable to a remote device. The board in question passed local loopback, but failed on a cable connection to a remote device. You can ping all computers from every other computer, and you can reache the Internet from each computer. If your NIC failure mode was as I described, you could not have ping, or Internet. You also stated: But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they used to). Something has changed. There are only a few things necessary for all computers to see the other computers: All in the same IP address range; including having the same netmask. Pinging doesn't require this; I know, I tested it. I could ping a 192.168.3.0/24 computer from a 192.168.102.0/24 computer on the same hub. All in the same Workgroup. Easy to test. Put one computer of of the workgroup, and try finding it. The concept of the Workgroup was to allow the topology of connected computers to be changed without changing the underlying network topology. No two computers can have the same name. Some computer on the LAN must be the 'browse master'; but not all of them can be. In a mix of WinNT kernel computers (NT/2K/XP) and Win9x kernel computers (95/98/Me), the Win9x computers should not be allowed to be browse master; nearly as I can tell. I would start by disabling browse master on the Windows Me computer, and setting to 'automatic' on the Windows XP computers. If necessary, I would calculate which Windows XP computer is on the most, and only enable it for that computer; at least for long enough to see if that helped matters. The Windows Me computer doesn't need to be the browse master. If it is the only one on, there will be nothing to browse. If any of the Windows XP computers comes up, and has the browse master set to 'automatic', it should be become the browse master. Try this: Identify the components in the list for each computer on your network. Just a simple list will do; like this (my two computers as an example): Megumi: Client for Microsoft Networks Dial-up Adapter HP EN1207D-TX PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter LapLink USB Network CAble TCP/IP - Dial-Up Adapter TCP/IP - HP EN1207D-TX PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter TCP/IP - LapLink USB Network CAble USB-USB Network Bridge - HP EN1207D-TX PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter USB-USB Network Bridge - LapLink USB Network CAble File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks Naomi: Client for Microsoft Networks Dial-up Adapter HP EN1207D-TX PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter TCP/IP - Dial-Up Adapter TCP/IP - HP EN1207D-TX PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks Post that (I used the actual NetBIOS names of the computers, but you can supply a generic name, if you wish, and you can relate the next step correctly to the actual computers, when I submit it), and I will take it to the next step. Don't worry about what the stuff means, don't worry about revealing any "national secrets"; your adapters are not unique. I will attempt to prune the lists down to what we are really concerned with when I see them. Hint: There is only one 'hardware' adapter in each of my lists I would look at (the 'hardware' adapter is the one with the icon of a printed circuit assembly (PCA); in Megumi, only two of the three are physical PCAs.) -- Norman ~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta ~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain ~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint |
#9
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So what did the manufacturer's comprehensive diagnostics
report for the NICs and for other hardware components? Especially important, was the comprehensive diagnostic used to transfer data between NICs in those large blocks that tend to find intermittents? What does the Device Manager display? For example how were the NIC, router, and cables eliminated as potential reasons for failure? By shotgunning or by using trial and error which often does not detect intermittents? Were previously cited comprehensive diagnostics used? No one can answer your question if facts are rationed. Is motherboard going bad? Is power supply slowly failing? Each has a specific and simple procedure to answer that question. Tasks to perform are numerous which is why some basic facts first need be provided - to limit the list of tasks to what is really important. Is it a hardware or software problem? I don't even see where that question was even answered. ?All I see are examples of shotgunning. MBD wrote: I have now ruled out the NIC, router, and cables. I have reinstalled TCP/IP and NIC drivers. I've tried every combination of WINS resolution, browse master, file and print sharing, etc. I have renamed the workgroup and machines. The "bad" computer is not shutting down correctly (it freezes and I have to shut it off manually), and it sometimes doesn't boot up. I'm wondering if it is: 1. The motherboard going bad (there was a lightning strike) 2. A corrupt Windows ME file 3. A bad video card or driver MBD |
#10
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At the risk of another lecture...
Mfg. diagnostics - passed all. The NIC, router, and cables are eliminated because I replaced all of them. The device manager states everything is ok and working properly. I have renamed the workgroup and the computers. The other 2 machines show the offending ME computer and reflect the new name, but when "properties" is chosen, it says it can't access the computer. So, the problem remains: the ME computer freezes when "Entire Network" is chosen from the My Network Neighborhood window. A few times it has returned the message "Cannot access the network." I have no problems accessing the router or the DSL internet from any computer, including the ME one. The computer also has problems shutting down. It often hangs - when I press ctl-alt-del it shows rundll32 as the only program remaining. Thanks for any advice. MBD -----Original Message----- So what did the manufacturer's comprehensive diagnostics report for the NICs and for other hardware components? Especially important, was the comprehensive diagnostic used to transfer data between NICs in those large blocks that tend to find intermittents? What does the Device Manager display? For example how were the NIC, router, and cables eliminated as potential reasons for failure? By shotgunning or by using trial and error which often does not detect intermittents? Were previously cited comprehensive diagnostics used? No one can answer your question if facts are rationed. Is motherboard going bad? Is power supply slowly failing? Each has a specific and simple procedure to answer that question. Tasks to perform are numerous which is why some basic facts first need be provided - to limit the list of tasks to what is really important. Is it a hardware or software problem? I don't even see where that question was even answered. ?All I see are examples of shotgunning. MBD wrote: I have now ruled out the NIC, router, and cables. I have reinstalled TCP/IP and NIC drivers. I've tried every combination of WINS resolution, browse master, file and print sharing, etc. I have renamed the workgroup and machines. The "bad" computer is not shutting down correctly (it freezes and I have to shut it off manually), and it sometimes doesn't boot up. I'm wondering if it is: 1. The motherboard going bad (there was a lightning strike) 2. A corrupt Windows ME file 3. A bad video card or driver MBD . |
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