won't defrag <20 GB HDD

.....agreed, but PM does what you tell it to - it just doesn't put
appropriate warnings along the way!!

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Rick T" wrote in message
...
Walterius wrote:
Partition Magic 8 changed the cluster size from 512 bytes to 4 kb (in an
hour or so!) and the partition then defragged without problem.

Many thanks, Noel, for your help.

Walterius



bizarre, PM should know that 9x Defrag won't work on a 512b cluster size.

Rick

I quite agree that PM screwed up, but that's the first time. I find the
program bends over backwards to be helpful and to caution users against
incorrect decisions. In addition, and this is why I love it, it has never
cost me any data.

"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
....agreed, but PM does what you tell it to - it just doesn't put
appropriate warnings along the way!!

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Rick T" wrote in message
...
Walterius wrote:
Partition Magic 8 changed the cluster size from 512 bytes to 4 kb (in
an
hour or so!) and the partition then defragged without problem.

Many thanks, Noel, for your help.

Walterius



bizarre, PM should know that 9x Defrag won't work on a 512b cluster
size.

Rick

With respect, although PM offered the option, it was you who pressed the
'Go' button without understanding the implications.
Somewhere here I have a copy of the PM5 manual, which explained the perils
of improper cluster-sizes - so the information is/was there, if you looked
for it, despite the (undeniable) fact that PM doesn't specifically flag it
as being 'dangerous' at the time (there are a few worse things that can
happen in such cases - you're lucky the drive was still so empty!!).
I must admit that I would have assumed that by v8 they would have learned a
lesson - but maybe by that time Symantec's mentality had taken over?

In short - PM is past it's (very good) best, and has been overtaken by
others in both the functionality and value stakes - and it's current owners'
reputation leaves an awful lot to be desired. If I were you, I'd look at
alternatives. Personally, I use BootItNG (half the price of PM, last I
heard - and it's a lifetime licence with unlimited upgrades!)

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Walterius" wrote in message
...
I quite agree that PM screwed up, but that's the first time. I find the
program bends over backwards to be helpful and to caution users against
incorrect decisions. In addition, and this is why I love it, it has never
cost me any data.

"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
....agreed, but PM does what you tell it to - it just doesn't put
appropriate warnings along the way!!

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Rick T" wrote in message
...
Walterius wrote:
Partition Magic 8 changed the cluster size from 512 bytes to 4 kb (in
an
hour or so!) and the partition then defragged without problem.

Many thanks, Noel, for your help.

Walterius



bizarre, PM should know that 9x Defrag won't work on a 512b cluster
size.

Rick

Well, there you go. In any event, the problem is solved, and I learned
something (painlessly), and those are what count to me.

Take care, and thanks again.

I would generally concur with your comments, Noel - although as yet, I've
not gone down the BootItNG route (far too much messing to pay/register (in
the UK)for the amount of times that I would ever need this utility these
days - in spite of its reputation, can't (yet) justify the hassle)

Further, with XP, I've not had the need (nor inclination) to partition my
HDD(s) and tend to let NTFS (spit) take care of itself (Sorry Chris Q, if
your watching - I strongly agree that NTFS is a PITA - but for some OEM
installations, you don't even get a choice)

Regarding Walterius' final comments (elsewhere on 02/08/2005 @ 22.37 BST) -
Learning something, especially 'painlessly', has to be worth more than money
can buy.

Mart


"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
With respect, although PM offered the option, it was you who pressed the
'Go' button without understanding the implications.
Somewhere here I have a copy of the PM5 manual, which explained the perils
of improper cluster-sizes - so the information is/was there, if you looked
for it, despite the (undeniable) fact that PM doesn't specifically flag it
as being 'dangerous' at the time (there are a few worse things that can
happen in such cases - you're lucky the drive was still so empty!!).
I must admit that I would have assumed that by v8 they would have learned
a lesson - but maybe by that time Symantec's mentality had taken over?

In short - PM is past it's (very good) best, and has been overtaken by
others in both the functionality and value stakes - and it's current
owners' reputation leaves an awful lot to be desired. If I were you, I'd
look at alternatives. Personally, I use BootItNG (half the price of PM,
last I heard - and it's a lifetime licence with unlimited upgrades!)

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Walterius" wrote in message
...
I quite agree that PM screwed up, but that's the first time. I find the
program bends over backwards to be helpful and to caution users against
incorrect decisions. In addition, and this is why I love it, it has never
cost me any data.

"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
....agreed, but PM does what you tell it to - it just doesn't put
appropriate warnings along the way!!

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to
NG's

"Rick T" wrote in message
...
Walterius wrote:
Partition Magic 8 changed the cluster size from 512 bytes to 4 kb (in
an
hour or so!) and the partition then defragged without problem.

Many thanks, Noel, for your help.

Walterius



bizarre, PM should know that 9x Defrag won't work on a 512b cluster
size.

Rick

Points taken - 'live and learn' is the essence of these groups, after all!

You're welcome, and good luck.

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Walterius" wrote in message
...
Well, there you go. In any event, the problem is solved, and I learned
something (painlessly), and those are what count to me.

Take care, and thanks again.

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 00:25:19 +0100, "Mart"

Further, with XP, I've not had the need (nor inclination) to partition my
HDD(s) and tend to let NTFS (spit) take care of itself (Sorry Chris Q, if
your watching - I strongly agree that NTFS is a PITA - but for some OEM
installations, you don't even get a choice)

What I do in those OEM cases is not buy that brand of OEMware.

What I do in cases where that brand of OEMware has been bought, is:
- drop HD into my "slurping system"
- image HD to the "slurping system" using BING
- within the "slurping system" OS, de-bulk the HD
- HD goes back to OEM-crippled system
- BING used to shrink partition
- BING used to create extended, logicals to taste
- HD back to "slurping system", bulk back to new volumes

Commonly after this sort of thing, the systerm won't boot, even though
you resisted the temptation to do the resize on the "slurping system"
that might have a different BIOS HD geometry logic. If that problem
persists after the usual boot record code massages, then resizing the
C: smaller, then back again, usually fixes. Actually, this problem
really only arises after an image graft without resizing.

As to the perils of NTFS, one of two problems is improving. Thanks to
Bart's PE, it's now becoming easier to formally manage active malware
on NTFS, and to evacuate data from a healthy NTFS volume.

But we are still stuck with poor tools to manage a bent NTFS volume.
AutoChk is lethal, as it's not undoable and doesn't query before
"fixing" things. Even when that's disabled, the problem remains that
there's no interactive file system repair tool for NTFS, that prompts
on problems the way that Scandisk does.

Further, there's no equivalent of Norton DiskEdit to edit raw disk
through an UI that understands NTFS file system logic. All we have
are automagical recovery tools that might find a "lost" partition, but
can't cope if the innards of that partition are bent.

So while it's less onerous to be stuck with an installation on an NTFS
C: (as you can at least av-scan it from a Bart-booted CDR), it's still
risky to keep data on NTFS, especially the same NTFS C: that the OS,
temp, pagefile etc. are constantly hammering away on.



-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Tip Of The Day:
To disable the 'Tip of the Day' feature...
-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 00:49:43 +0200 "cquirke" (MVP Windows shell/user)
wrote:-

Further, with XP, I've not had the need (nor inclination) to partition my
HDD(s) and tend to let NTFS (spit) take care of itself (Sorry Chris Q,
if
your watching - I strongly agree that NTFS is a PITA - but for some OEM
installations, you don't even get a choice)

What I do in those OEM cases is not buy that brand of OEMware.

Wasn't an option g

What I do in cases where that brand of OEMware has been bought, is:
- drop HD into my "slurping system"
- image HD to the "slurping system" using BING
- within the "slurping system" OS, de-bulk the HD
- HD goes back to OEM-crippled system
- BING used to shrink partition
- BING used to create extended, logicals to taste
- HD back to "slurping system", bulk back to new volumes

Commonly after this sort of thing, the systerm won't boot, even though
you resisted the temptation to do the resize on the "slurping system"
that might have a different BIOS HD geometry logic. If that problem
persists after the usual boot record code massages, then resizing the
C: smaller, then back again, usually fixes. Actually, this problem
really only arises after an image graft without resizing.

As to the perils of NTFS, one of two problems is improving. Thanks to
Bart's PE, it's now becoming easier to formally manage active malware
on NTFS, and to evacuate data from a healthy NTFS volume.

Sounds good and makes sense (subject to my proviso hassle obtaining
BING) and I will review your Bart's PE advice.

But we are still stuck with poor tools to manage a bent NTFS volume.
AutoChk is lethal, as it's not undoable and doesn't query before
"fixing" things. Even when that's disabled, the problem remains that
there's no interactive file system repair tool for NTFS, that prompts
on problems the way that Scandisk does.

Further, there's no equivalent of Norton DiskEdit to edit raw disk
through an UI that understands NTFS file system logic. All we have
are automagical recovery tools that might find a "lost" partition, but
can't cope if the innards of that partition are bent.

So while it's less onerous to be stuck with an installation on an NTFS
C: (as you can at least av-scan it from a Bart-booted CDR), it's still
risky to keep data on NTFS, especially the same NTFS C: that the OS,
temp, pagefile etc. are constantly hammering away on.

However, when faced with an 'unbootable' OS and no tools and time being of
the essence (day before xmas eve), the simplest 'solution' (for me) was to
dump the contents of the 'suspect' HDD - via a USB-IDE adapter - onto
another (XP) machine and salvage the data at leisure (most was already
backed-up anyway). Then re-format and re-install OEM package (NTFS of
course, Duh!)

Then tried to MaxBlast it to an identical HDD - which didn't work, on
hindsight, probably due to the "common" reasons you expounded earlier.

Does MaxBlast let you image and 'slurp' from NTFS to FAT32? - Must
investigate!!

As it was a 'one-off', it did me a favour because it gave me the excuse not
to re-install all the crxp I'd gathered over the previous couple of years.
So I'm left with the C: drive as NTFS and the D: as FAT32 with my back-ups
on my D: and/or CD and DVD media and I can live with the NTFS issues - but
will investigate the Barts PE option

Thanks for your ideas, they're appreciated.

Mart



-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Tip Of The Day:
To disable the 'Tip of the Day' feature...
-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

Mart,

Sounds good and makes sense (subject to my proviso hassle
obtaining BING) and I will review your Bart's PE advice.

Don't quite understand the hassle you seem to be having in purchasing
BING. Things must have changed somewhat as I did this in the same way as
I make any other internet purchase and received my key by return e-mail.
Of the three vendor sites mentioned I used SWEG and got charged in UKP.
Current price appears to be £20.51 although it seems as if RegNow are
cheaper at £20.08.

Incidentally I think that you can legally use BING for 30 days without a
licence and I shouldn't say this but I think after then it is only a nag
screen and delayed load if you have BING installed as a boot manager and
haven't licensed it. I don't think there is a nag screen if using BING
from a floppy or CD for partition work, only if installed as a boot
manager and the 30 days is up.
--
Mike


Mart wrote:


snip

Mike wrote :-

Don't quite understand the hassle you seem to be having in purchasing
BING. Things must have changed ....

You may well be correct, Mike - I seem to recall PayPal was involved at some
point in time or site I tried. But after a 'nasty experience' with PP, I've
never bothered since. I'll re-visit and see if things look better - just
checked and can't see any mention of PP, so will reconsider g

Thanks Mike, for the extra info. too.

Mart


"Mike M" wrote in message
...
Mart,

Sounds good and makes sense (subject to my proviso hassle
obtaining BING) and I will review your Bart's PE advice.

somewhat as I did this in the same way as
I make any other internet purchase and received my key by return e-mail.
Of the three vendor sites mentioned I used SWEG and got charged in UKP.
Current price appears to be £20.51 although it seems as if RegNow are
cheaper at £20.08.

Incidentally I think that you can legally use BING for 30 days without a
licence and I shouldn't say this but I think after then it is only a nag
screen and delayed load if you have BING installed as a boot manager and
haven't licensed it. I don't think there is a nag screen if using BING
from a floppy or CD for partition work, only if installed as a boot
manager and the 30 days is up.
--
Mike


Mart wrote:


snip