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#11
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"Kentiguous" wrote in message
... | PCR wrote : | Thanks for the clarification about "=0". I have no inclination to | verify | whether it works/not, & will continue to believe it does. And I don't | care what your network administrator may say. | | Ooh, snippy! It's quite possible that what works on your machine, may | not work on _all_ machines, running the same version of the OS. I guess I'll go with that, now that this thread is making me loony. Lord, what a mind-bender Scandisk has turned out to be. And, really, it would be difficult & unwise to intentionally test some of the working of Scandisk. I certainly don't want to force a bad shutdown, not to mention one that would cause a serious enough error to see whether Scandisk asks permission before fixing it. After all, it is said, Scandisk may not do a great job on big errors. See... http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/ ....which actually may contain a few of the answers we seek. | | I've just finished reading a second definition of AUTOSCAN=2; one says | (paraphrasing), "Prompt before auto-running Scandisk", and, the other | says, "Auto-run Scandisk, but prompt before repairs". Can you (or, | anyone else) provide a little clarification, here? Don't make me click that cquirke URL! | | | I wasn't aware that SCANDISK will respect the /CUSTOM settings, when | it | | auto-runs after a bad shutdown. After taking a peek at WIN.COM, I can | | see that it does; thanks for the tip. | | Suddenly, I do dimly recall a thread in which there was some contention | over this. "C:\Windows\Command\Scandisk.ini" says... | | ; ------------------------------------------------------------------- | ; The [CUSTOM] section determines ScanDisk's behavior when ScanDisk is | ; started with the /CUSTOM switch. You can adjust these settings to | ; create a customized "version" of ScanDisk. This can be especially | ; useful for running ScanDisk from a batch file. The [CUSTOM] settings | a | | I'm afraid I don't recall the outcome of the discussion. Personal | experience fails me in the issue, as the only messages I've seen during | an Auto-Scandisk were... | | (a) DOS name length, & | (b) Whether/not to save a... lost cluster, I guess. | | Although I am set to... | | DS_LostClust = Fix ; Internal lost clusters | | Check out "LostClust", in SCANDISK.INI. Huh? What will I see? | | ...I don't know whether it would still ask to save them with that | setting. I do believe it would be DUMB for the Auto-Scandisk to | actually | ignore "/Custom" settings. Why provide that kind of control, & THEN not | have the Auto- honor it! | | See above. See above. | | | I wasn't aware that SCANDISK will respect the /CUSTOM settings, when | it | | auto-runs after a bad shutdown. After taking a peek at WIN.COM, I can | | see that it does; thanks for the tip. | | What did you see? | | I saw the parameters "/CUSTOM" and "/SIMPLEUI", inside the executable | (along with a later occurence of "/SURFACE"). I'm thinking that the | choice of which parameters will actually be used will be tied to an | analysis of the Scandisk flags on the disk (in conjunction with the | associated setting in the MSDOS.SYS file). That was a good thought. However, WIN.com is not DOS; it is Windows. That Auto-Scandisk is running in DOS. IO.sys & Command.com are DOS. Still... I'm not sure, but... finding "/CUSTOM" even in IO.sys probably doesn't prove Auto-Scandisk uses it. | | | scandisk /ALL /NOSUMMARY | | if not errorlevel 1 goto scend2 | | echo Errors found! Press a key to re-scan/fix local drive(s)... | | pausenul | | scandisk /ALL | | :scend2 | | I don't like the looks of that. The second run will not find any | errors. | | Yes, it will (see below). OK. | | The first run did not record it's summary. (It may be the summary & the | error report are two different things, though, not sure.) | | They are two different things; but even if they weren't, the | non-creation (or deletion) of SCANDISK.LOG will not affect Scandisk's | ability to detect subsequent errors. OK, they're different. STILL, the second run will not find the errors that were fixed in the first run. Therefore, it is important to select "append" for the .log, not "overwrite", if you are going to run it twice in a row! | | Ken | | -- | Remove the '4' to reply via email -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, should things get worse after this, PCR |
#12
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Well, here is a post from my "Keepers" that mentions "/CUSTOM" of
Scandisk. Not fully sure what to make of it, as I AM SURE we both decided there is no "(prompt) to run ScanDisk", but possible some day we'll see a prompt as to whether we want to fix an error. HOWEVER, this does appear to be informative. For instance, you did earlier mention Win.com & I mentioned IO.sys. We both did well with that! ............Quote................... This info is from an old KB article that has since been revised and the info is no longer included in the current article: OSR2 includes versions of the Io.sys and Win.com files that check the Clean Shutdown and Hard Disk Error bits in the Virtual File Allocation Table (VFAT) during startup. If either of these bits is turned on (that is, cleared to 0) on any drive present in real mode, you are prompted to run ScanDisk. If you do not press a key within 60 seconds, ScanDisk runs anyway. The Clean Shutdown and Hard Disk Error bits are the two low-order bits of the FAT entry for cluster 1. If bit 0 is 0, it indicates an unclean shutdown; if bit 1 is 0, it indicates that a hard disk error occurred on that drive. These bits are turned on by VFAT; they are turned off only by ScanDisk. The Clean Shutdown bit is turned off upon completion of a standard run. The Hard Disk Error bit is turned off upon completion of a surface scan (regardless of whether errors were repaired). If either of these bits is on for a real-mode drive, Win.com displays the appropriate error message. Pressing any key starts the following command: SCANDISK.EXE /CUSTOM x: [[y:] ...] If the Hard Disk Error bit is on for any drive, the /SURFACE switch is included in the command. Note that if the Clean Shutdown bits are off, but one or more Hard Disk Error bits is on, you receive a different error message about why ScanDisk is being started. If ScanDisk does not find any errors, or if you choose to fix all errors, ScanDisk should finish and Windows 95 should continue loading. Note that the default behavior of the /CUSTOM switch is that ScanDisk displays a summary screen if any errors are found, but if not, ScanDisk quits silently. If Scandisk.exe is not found, Win.com displays the following error message: SCANDISK.EXE could not be found. You may have problems on your disks(s) that require repairing. Press any key to continue starting Windows... If you quit ScanDisk early, leaving errors on the disk, or if ScanDisk is unable to finish, Win.com displays the following error message: There was an error running SCANDISK.EXE, or it was canceled. You may still have errors on your disk(s). Press any key to continue starting Windows... NOTE: If ScanDisk does not reach the point where it turns the Clean Shut- down and Hard Disk Error bits off, ScanDisk runs again the next time your computer starts. -- Regards Ron Badour, MS MVP W95/98 Systems Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour Knowledge Base Info: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo .........EOQ........................ -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, should things get worse after this, PCR "Kentiguous" wrote in message ... | I started this thread by saying that the various "AutoScan" options for | Scandisk, in MSDOS.SYS, weren't working in my installation of Win98SE. | | The above statement was incorrect, and was based on the following | incomplete definitions for "AutoScan" (and, a lack of testing g): | | 0 = Never run Scandisk on startup. | 1 = Prompt to run Scandisk on startup. | 2 = Always run Scandisk on startup. | | These are the "AutoScan" options, here, based on my test results: | | 0 = Never run Scandisk on startup, after an incomplete shutdown. | 1 = Always run Scandisk on startup, after an incomplete shutdown, and | automatically fix errors (default). | 2= Always run Scandisk on startup, after an incomplete shutdown, and | prompt before making repairs. | | Scandisk will also use SCANDISK.INI's /CUSTOM settings, when | auto-running after an incomplete shutdown. | | Sorry for the confusion, and thanks to all, for your input. | | Ken | | -- | Remove the '4' to reply via email | | |
#13
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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:56:51 -0500, "PCR" wrote:
Auto-Scandisk does NOT ask whether it should run. It doesn't appear to ask whether it should FIX an error, either. It ONLY asks whether it should SAVE a lost cluster/whatever In Win95 and Win98, it is SCANDISK.INI that manages the specifics of what errors are fixed, prompted on or ignored - not MSDOS.SYS or Winboot.ini - but while SCANDISK.INI exists in WinME, it's ignored. That's only polite! WELL, the settings in Scandisk.ini likely do come into play, & will be the ultimate decider. In that case, it better be true that /CUSTOM applies to the Auto-Scandisk. /Custom does invoke Scandisk.ini, and AutoScandisk normally implicitly invokes /Custom. Perhaps the setting you refer to affects that? I haven't read it up as I generally like the was Scandisk comes up as flagged, preferring only to limit what it does to "fix". HOWEVER, my setting in MSDOS.sys is "=1". Remember, a C:\Winboot.ini trumps C:\MSDOS.sys :-) Where on earth is cquirke or Blanton? waves Hi! ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - - Proverbs Unscrolled #37 "Build it and they will come and break it" ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - - |
#14
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"cquirke (MVP Win9x)" wrote in message
... | On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:56:51 -0500, "PCR" wrote: | | Auto-Scandisk does NOT ask whether it should run. It doesn't appear to | ask whether it should FIX an error, either. It ONLY asks whether it | should SAVE a lost cluster/whatever | | In Win95 and Win98, it is SCANDISK.INI that manages the specifics of | what errors are fixed, prompted on or ignored - not MSDOS.SYS or | Winboot.ini - but while SCANDISK.INI exists in WinME, it's ignored. OK. That's what I always said. Really! Scandisk.ini /Custom section WOULD apply to an Auto-Scandisk. Since my HDD crash of 2001, I haven't had a bad enough error for Scandisk to ask about, though I have set Scandisk.ini to PROMPT for a few. And it was horribly traumatic in 2001, too much so for me to recall. Anyway, back then I'm sure I was all FIX in the .ini. Therefore, I am glad to see arrive to settle the issue. http://support.microsoft.com/support.../Q118/5/79.asp Contents of the Windows Msdos.sys File ......Quote..... The [Options] section can contain the following settings. You must manually insert these settings if you want to use them: • AutoScan=Number Default: 1 Purpose: Defines whether or not ScanDisk is run after a bad shutdown. A setting of... 0 does not run ScanDisk; 1 prompts before running ScanDisk; 2 does not prompt before running ScanDisk but prompts you before fixing errors if any errors are found. ......EOQ........ However, I don't want to know whether I am an "=1" or an "=2". Don't tell! MSDOS.sys (have no Winboot.ini) says "=1". But surely I would remember whether the thing asks permission to run. Therefore, very likely I'm an "=2", &-- well, it depends upon Scandisk.ini settings for Prompts before fixing. | | That's only polite! WELL, the settings in Scandisk.ini likely do come | into play, & will be the ultimate decider. In that case, it better be | true that /CUSTOM applies to the Auto-Scandisk. | | /Custom does invoke Scandisk.ini, and AutoScandisk normally implicitly | invokes /Custom. OK, it does apply. | Perhaps the setting you refer to affects that? I | haven't read it up as I generally like the was Scandisk comes up as | flagged, preferring only to limit what it does to "fix". I've never tried "Autoscan=2" explicitly. I do believe my "=1" is behaving as an "=2". Certainly, I've never been asked whether to permit Scandisk itself to RUN. And I haven't the memory nor the recent experience to know whether it will ask before doing a FIX. | | HOWEVER, my setting in MSDOS.sys is "=1". | | Remember, a C:\Winboot.ini trumps C:\MSDOS.sys :-) That I do recall, & I don't have one. | | Where on earth is cquirke or Blanton? | | waves Hi! Good to see you come to the rescue. | | | | ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - - | Proverbs Unscrolled #37 | "Build it and they will come and break it" | ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - - -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, should things get worse after this, PCR |
#15
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"Kentiguous" wrote in message
... | PCR wrote : | | | I'm afraid I don't recall the outcome of the discussion. Personal | | experience fails me in the issue, as the only messages I've seen | during | | an Auto-Scandisk were... | | | | (a) DOS name length, & | | (b) Whether/not to save a... lost cluster, I guess. | | | | Although I am set to... | | | | DS_LostClust = Fix ; Internal lost clusters | | | | Check out "LostClust", in SCANDISK.INI. | | Huh? What will I see? | | You will see that there is an option for "LostClust", as well as one for | "DS_LostClust". The former will control the behaviour to which you | refer, above. Very well, but what is the behavior I spoke of? You mean when I said mine doesn't ask whether to fix "lost files of folders", but only asks whether to save them? It just happened again, by the way, THIS BOOT. Too bad... LostClust = Prompt ; Lost clusters DS_LostClust = Fix ; Internal lost clusters ....those were my settings. NOW, I have made the second to be "Prompt" as well. In fact, as a punishment to me, I have changed every single one of them in that section to "Prompt", where formerly it was only the last one... Boot_Sector = Prompt ; Damaged boot sector on DoubleSpace drive FSInfo_Sector = Prompt ; Incorrect free space count Invalid_MDFAT = Prompt ; Invalid MDFAT entries DS_Crosslinks = Prompt ; Internal (MDFAT-level) crosslinks DS_LostClust = Prompt ; Internal lost clusters DS_Signatures = Prompt ; Missing DoubleSpace volume signatures Mismatch_FAT = Prompt ; Mismatched FATs on non-DoubleSpace drives Bad_Clusters = Prompt ; Physical damage or decompression errors | | | I saw the parameters "/CUSTOM" and "/SIMPLEUI", inside the executable | | (along with a later occurence of "/SURFACE"). I'm thinking that the | | choice of which parameters will actually be used will be tied to an | | analysis of the Scandisk flags on the disk (in conjunction with the | | associated setting in the MSDOS.SYS file). | | That was a good thought. However, WIN.com is not DOS; it is Windows. | That Auto-Scandisk is running in DOS. IO.sys & Command.com are DOS. | Still... I'm not sure, but... finding "/CUSTOM" even in IO.sys probably | doesn't prove Auto-Scandisk uses it. | | There are no references to Scandisk in either IO.SYS or COMMAND.COM, | in Win98SE. WIN.COM is a DOS executable file. That's odd. Did you see my quote of Badour...?... ....elsewhere in this thread. | | | | | | scandisk /ALL /NOSUMMARY | | | if not errorlevel 1 goto scend2 | | | echo Errors found! Press a key to re-scan/fix local drive(s)... | | | pausenul | | | scandisk /ALL | | | :scend2 | | | | I don't like the looks of that. The second run will not find any | | errors. | | | | Yes, it will (see below). | | OK. | | | | | The first run did not record it's summary. (It may be the summary & | the | | error report are two different things, though, not sure.) | | | | They are two different things; but even if they weren't, the | | non-creation (or deletion) of SCANDISK.LOG will not affect Scandisk's | | ability to detect subsequent errors. | | OK, they're different. STILL, the second run will not find the errors | that were fixed in the first run. Therefore, it is important to select | "append" for the .log, not "overwrite", if you are going to run it | twice | in a row! | | The first run will not fix the errors, here (hence, the need for the | second run). If the first run did fix the errors, it would be rather | difficult for Scandisk to fix them, during the second run, if they no | longer existed. g Logging is irrelevant WRT Scandisk's ability to fix | errors. You can use "SaveLog=Off", in SCANDISK.INI to disable logging. I thought/think it is "/CHECKONLY" that does that, not "/NOSUMMARY". | | Ken | | -- | Remove the '4' to reply via email -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, should things get worse after this, PCR |
#16
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"Kentiguous" wrote in message
... | PCR wrote : | | http://support.microsoft.com/support.../Q118/5/79.asp | | Contents of the Windows Msdos.sys File | | .....Quote..... | | The [Options] section can contain the following settings. You must | | manually insert these settings if you want to use them: | | | | • AutoScan=Number | | Default: 1 | | Purpose: Defines whether or not ScanDisk is run after a bad shutdown. | | A setting of... | | 0 does not run ScanDisk; | | 1 prompts before running ScanDisk; | | 2 does not prompt before running ScanDisk but prompts you before | fixing | | errors if any errors are found. | | .....EOQ........ | | I think I'm going batty now. Am I an "=1", or am I an "=2"...?... | | Auto-Scandisk does NOT ask whether it should run. It doesn't appear to | ask whether it should FIX an error, either. It ONLY asks whether it | should SAVE a lost cluster/whatever, after it's presumably already been | fixed. OTOH, it is possible, in the case of a lost cluster/whatever, | there is no fixing involved. It's either save the lost one or don't | save | it. THEREFORE... | | I think that the definition of "AutoScan=1", above, is incorrect, and | should read: | | 1 = Always run Scandisk on startup, after an incomplete shutdown, and | automatically fix errors (default). Well, the article (above) just says... "1 prompts before running ScanDisk". You say, not only does it not Prompt, BUT it will Auto-fix the errors. Elsewhere in this thread, (I think) you said it was the setting of... LostClust = Prompt ; Lost clusters ....that determines what happens with those "lost files of folders", which are the only ones I can remember clearly, (especially as it just happened this boot). You also mentioned... DS_LostClust = Fix ; Internal lost clusters ...., but said that wasn't the one. (Damn, I should go back to cquirke's site.) WELL... (a) I am set to Prompt for LostClust. (b) I am still =1 in MSDOS.sys. (c) I have no Winboot.ini & likely never will. THEREFORE... My experience/memory of my crash of 2001 is too limited to determine the issue. WOULD there be a prompt to FIX a lost file or folder, instead of JUST a Prompt as to whether it should be SAVED? With my =1, I certainly do not get the former, but I do get the latter. | | My FINAL belief is... I am an "=2", which is what I first said (I | think). And, should there be a fix involved, I presume I will be asked. | That's only polite! WELL, the settings in Scandisk.ini likely do come | into play, & will be the ultimate decider. In that case, it better be | true that /CUSTOM applies to the Auto-Scandisk. | | The /CUSTOM settings work, here, in AutoScan mode, if SCANDISK.INI | exists (I'm using "AutoScan=2"). Uhuh. That is good to know. It is what I thought to begin with. Also, cquirke has agreed with us. | | HOWEVER, my setting in MSDOS.sys is "=1". THEREFORE, it is "=1" that is | the illusion. | | If your AutoScan setting is a "1" (in MSDOS.SYS's [Options] section), | then you are, indeed, a "1" (unless, as Chris said, WINBOOT.INI exists, | with a different setting). You could try altering SCANDISK.INI's | settings to generate the prompts you desire (or, rename SCANDISK.INI, | and use "AutoScan=2"). See above. | | Ken | | -- | Remove the '4' to reply via email -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, should things get worse after this, PCR |
#17
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"PCR" wrote in message ...
Well, here is a post from my "Keepers" that mentions "/CUSTOM" of Scandisk. ...........Quote................... This info is from an old KB article that has since been revised and the info is no longer included in the current article: [snip] The Clean Shutdown and Hard Disk Error bits are the two low-order bits of the FAT entry for cluster 1. If bit 0 is 0, it indicates an unclean shutdown; if bit 1 is 0, it indicates that a hard disk error occurred on that drive. These bits are turned on by VFAT; they are turned off only by ScanDisk. The KB author says "the two low-order bits", but that isn't right. The MS FAT spec defines it correctly- quote The second reserved cluster, FAT[1], is set by FORMAT to the EOC mark. On FAT12 volumes, it is not used and is simply always contains an EOC mark. For FAT16 and FAT32, the file system driver may use the high two bits of the FAT[1] entry for dirty volume flags (all other bits, are always left set to 1). Note that the bit location is different for FAT16 and FAT32, because they are the high 2 bits of the entry. /quote "high two bits", not "two low order bits". FAT32 only uses 28 bits for cluster entries so it will be bit-26 and bit-27 of the dword FAT[1} entry. That glossed over fact actually drove me insane one day.. :-[] |
#18
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"Kentiguous" wrote in message ...
cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote : On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:56:51 -0500, "PCR" wrote: Auto-Scandisk does NOT ask whether it should run. It doesn't appear to ask whether it should FIX an error, either. It ONLY asks whether it should SAVE a lost cluster/whatever In Win95 and Win98, it is SCANDISK.INI that manages the specifics of what errors are fixed, prompted on or ignored - not MSDOS.SYS or Winboot.ini - but while SCANDISK.INI exists in WinME, it's ignored. In Win98SE, I've found that AutoScan=2 will cause Scandisk to prompt to fix errors, if SCANDISK.INI does not exist. That's good to know. I wonder if that's true for all errors.. What if scandisk.ini does exist? Does it take precedence? |
#19
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#20
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"PCR" wrote in message ... "Bill Blanton" wrote in message ... | "PCR" wrote in message ... | ...........Quote................... | This info is from an old KB article | The Clean Shutdown and Hard Disk Error bits are the two low-order bits | of the FAT | entry for cluster 1. | The KB author says "the two low-order bits", but that isn't right. | The MS FAT spec defines it correctly- | | quote | For FAT16 and FAT32, the file system driver may use the high two bits of | the FAT[1] entry for dirty volume flags | /quote | | | "high two bits", not "two low order bits". FAT32 only uses 28 bits | for cluster entries so it will be bit-26 and bit-27 of the dword FAT[1} | entry. It's the two high-order (or rightmost) bits of a double-word, then. Not the high order bits of the dword,, the high order bits of the 28 bit "subthing". There's no name for that, afaik.. It's a WordByteNybble. The intel little endian architecture stores bytes "backwards", but not the bits within the bytes. Dword 0x12345678 would be stored in memory as 0x78 0x56 0x34 0x12, if looking at it from a "low to high" address point of view. (and is naturally carried over to HD storage) Considering dword 11111111 11111111 11111111 01111111 the high order bit (bit-31) is only one clear. If only refering to 28-bits, it would look like this, with the high order bit cleared- 11111111 11111111 11111111 11110111. Using the term "right" or "left" just confuses the already insane! And I suppose it applies separately for each partition in the system known to Windows. For each volume ;-). FAT16 and FAT32, but not NT-based systems. They moved it to the boot sector somewheres.. |
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