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#41
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HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2
legg wrote:
On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:56:06 -0400, 98 Guy wrote: Your computer's clock is off by an hour, btw. legg wrote: I have the W98 2ed normally in primary master, the W2K SP4 in primary slave positions. Optical and bulk data on the secondary IDE. The 80G drives are WD WD800JB-00JJC0 ca 2006 The new drives are WD WD1600AAJB-00PVA0 ca 2008 As suggested by Mr.Blanton and recently noted to him, the new drives will boot if the primary slave position is vacant. So you are replacing two 80-gb drives with two 160-gb drives - yes? Both connected on the same ribbon cable to the motherboard primary IDE connector? And the motherboard won't boot with that setup? Boot a DOS floppy with fdisk and run fdisk and choose option (5) to see what drive choices it presents to you. Then choose option (4) and check to see that there is at least one partition or volume on the desired boot drive that is marked with "A" under the Status column. "A" means "Active", as in it's a bootable partition or volume. If you can't boot a DOS floppy with both 160 gb drives connected as master/slave, then move one of the drives to the second IDE interface and try again. I have used MANY of the 80-gb Western Digital drives, and quite a few of the 320 gb drives, but I don't think I've ever had my hands on the 160 gb versions. I have a few Seagate 160 gb drives - but they're SATA. I stuck the 'new' W98 Hdd in sec slave, as suggested, with the source w98 hdd in primary master, and w2K in primary slave and booted up into the usual W2K alt OS. W2K disc management shows the old W98 as H:, healthy and boot; the new drive as C:, healthy and active. You don't say what the disc management says about the W2K partition. Can it be it also is an Active partition? If so, BIOS may become confused which one to boot when both the W98 & the W2K hard drives are on the same cable. And it does sound like you are early enough in the boot process for that to be the case. Going by this... http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/window...kmantools.html Management Console Tools ===Quote========== Healthy (boot) - Active primary partition on the first drive. Healthy (system) - if same as boot volume, it is called "Healthy (boot)". ===EOQ=========== ....I'd think your W2K partition is "Healthy (boot)" -- which would mean it's Active. So, you have to remove the Active status of the W98 partition. (Note: when the W98 partition is no longer Active it will no longer boot when it is alone on the cable or when it is with the optical drive on the secondary cable.) After this, it looks to me you have a drive letter problem too. I think the W2K partition needs the W98 partition to have letter H - not C. Maybe post your Boot.ini for inspection. But I won't be much help. Stick with Blanton, really, with that "clear sig" maybe. Swap around their positions, as WDLG intended, and there's no boot. Should be able to do something with the W2K recovery console, if I can only figure out what that is. RL -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR |
#42
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HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2
On 11/5/2010 11:31, legg wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 20:49:19 -0400, Bill Blanton wrote: snip Are you getting to the boot menu where it displays your boot choices? 98 and 2K? Not with both drives present in intended slots. Boot.ini will be in the root of the 98 volume and is easily edited from DOS. If you need help post the contents. There are quite a few tools to clear or edit the NT disk signature, BootitNG, Acronis TI, and later versions of MS diskpart to name a few, but a "trick" you can use is to clear the MBRs with a 98 version of fdisk. At a DOS prompt fdisk /cmbr 1 fdisk /cmbr 2 would clear the sigs on the first two disks. Can't boot to floppy, drive or CD with drives in intended slots. To understand the significance of the signature google it. Here's one of the clearer explanations; http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec slave W2K present. With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98 disk still identified as H:\ in W2K. Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2' with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again. Everything needs to be set up before you boot to Windows. News signatures will be written, but if you don't do it correctly, the old sig will be put back. Do all this before booting Windows. Clear sig on both drives. edit boot.ini connect the drives in the desired config Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail' message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after this message. You might have to move the other disk to the other controller. |
#43
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HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, legg wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 20:49:19 -0400, Bill Blanton wrote: snip Are you getting to the boot menu where it displays your boot choices? 98 and 2K? Not with both drives present in intended slots. Boot.ini will be in the root of the 98 volume and is easily edited from DOS. If you need help post the contents. There are quite a few tools to clear or edit the NT disk signature, BootitNG, Acronis TI, and later versions of MS diskpart to name a few, but a "trick" you can use is to clear the MBRs with a 98 version of fdisk. At a DOS prompt fdisk /cmbr 1 fdisk /cmbr 2 would clear the sigs on the first two disks. Can't boot to floppy, drive or CD with drives in intended slots. To understand the significance of the signature google it. Here's one of the clearer explanations; http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec slave W2K present. With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98 disk still identified as H:\ in W2K. Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2' with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again. Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail' message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after this message. RL |
#44
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HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2
On 11/5/2010 14:26, legg wrote:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:10:08 -0400, Bill Blanton wrote: On 11/5/2010 11:31, legg wrote: On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, wrote: snip At a DOS prompt fdisk /cmbr 1 fdisk /cmbr 2 would clear the sigs on the first two disks. Can't boot to floppy, drive or CD with drives in intended slots. To understand the significance of the signature google it. Here's one of the clearer explanations; http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec slave W2K present. With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98 disk still identified as H:\ in W2K. Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2' with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again. Everything needs to be set up before you boot to Windows. News signatures will be written, but if you don't do it correctly, the old sig will be put back. Do all this before booting Windows. Clear sig on both drives. edit boot.ini connect the drives in the desired config Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail' message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after this message. You might have to move the other disk to the other controller. By 'the other' you mean source w98, target w98, or W2K/ Thought you only had two physical HDDs? Depending on your BIOS, the active/booting 98 partition will probably have to remain on the primary/master. The idea is to put them on different controllers since there may be a conflict with both being on the same controller. Again, Boot.ini will have to be edited. |
#45
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HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2
On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:10:08 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote: On 11/5/2010 11:31, legg wrote: On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, wrote: snip At a DOS prompt fdisk /cmbr 1 fdisk /cmbr 2 would clear the sigs on the first two disks. Can't boot to floppy, drive or CD with drives in intended slots. To understand the significance of the signature google it. Here's one of the clearer explanations; http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec slave W2K present. With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98 disk still identified as H:\ in W2K. Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2' with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again. Everything needs to be set up before you boot to Windows. News signatures will be written, but if you don't do it correctly, the old sig will be put back. Do all this before booting Windows. Clear sig on both drives. edit boot.ini connect the drives in the desired config Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail' message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after this message. You might have to move the other disk to the other controller. By 'the other' you mean source w98, target w98, or W2K/ RL |
#46
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HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2
On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:10:08 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote: On 11/5/2010 11:31, legg wrote: On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, wrote: snip Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec slave W2K present. With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98 disk still identified as H:\ in W2K. Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2' with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again. Everything needs to be set up before you boot to Windows. News signatures will be written, but if you don't do it correctly, the old sig will be put back. Do all this before booting Windows. Clear sig on both drives. edit boot.ini connect the drives in the desired config Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail' message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after this message. You might have to move the other disk to the other controller. I can prevent writing to the W98 boot sector by simply refusing permission, or at least I'm given that impression when booting to W98 after a signature clearance. The present boot.ini file should serve, as neither locations of the W98 or W2k OS are intended to change, physically. I've marked each instance (in the text announcement), so that I can tell which file is being processed, or if it has been replaced. No issues with this file (when booting is possible), so far. ........................... At this point, however, after zeroing discs, the W2K installation appears to be broken. When I try to boot into it now, I get past the security cntrl-alt-del and password entry, only to be returned to the security cntrl-alt-delete window again. There is a long black-screen-with-cursor wait the first time this screen is returned, but quicker response on subsequent OS farts. Have attempted an emergency repair (no ERDisk option) with no change in behaviour. I'm exercising usenet from the SW on the source W98 disk now, before contemplating other methods of W2K repair, using the W2K CD or start-up discs. Issues with the W98 back-up target will have to wait. The W2K disc, by the way, is old - courtesy of a long-ago-expired MSDN subscription and still labelled NT5. I suspect that not all typical W2K repair or recovery options are available when using it, but it has served previously. However, anything requiring updating to SP4 on 'Windows Update' could be a serious issue, as I believe there is no longer support for the W2K OS either, nowadays. I appear to be losing the patient. RL |
#47
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HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2
On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:08:15 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote: On 11/5/2010 14:26, legg wrote: On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:10:08 -0400, Bill Blanton wrote: On 11/5/2010 11:31, legg wrote: On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, wrote: snip At a DOS prompt fdisk /cmbr 1 fdisk /cmbr 2 would clear the sigs on the first two disks. Can't boot to floppy, drive or CD with drives in intended slots. To understand the significance of the signature google it. Here's one of the clearer explanations; http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec slave W2K present. With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98 disk still identified as H:\ in W2K. Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2' with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again. Everything needs to be set up before you boot to Windows. News signatures will be written, but if you don't do it correctly, the old sig will be put back. Do all this before booting Windows. Clear sig on both drives. edit boot.ini connect the drives in the desired config Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail' message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after this message. You might have to move the other disk to the other controller. By 'the other' you mean source w98, target w98, or W2K/ Thought you only had two physical HDDs? Depending on your BIOS, the active/booting 98 partition will probably have to remain on the primary/master. The idea is to put them on different controllers since there may be a conflict with both being on the same controller. Again, Boot.ini will have to be edited. I have the three listed above currently in play. I can zero the W98 target when it's solo in pri master. I can zero the W98 source and W2K (option) in primary master and primary slave. That's what I did, without resolving the boot freeze when W98 target was returned to pri master with W2K in pri slave. RL |
#48
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HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2
"legg" wrote in message
... I can prevent writing to the W98 boot sector by simply refusing permission, or at least I'm given that impression when booting to W98 after a signature clearance. The present boot.ini file should serve, as neither locations of the W98 or W2k OS are intended to change, physically. I've marked each instance (in the text announcement), so that I can tell which file is being processed, or if it has been replaced. No issues with this file (when booting is possible), so far. .......................... At this point, however, after zeroing discs, the W2K installation appears to be broken. When I try to boot into it now, I get past the security cntrl-alt-del and password entry, only to be returned to the security cntrl-alt-delete window again. There is a long black-screen-with-cursor wait the first time this screen is returned, but quicker response on subsequent OS farts. snip Drive letter assignment changed? Unable to log on if the boot partition drive letter has changed http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249321 -- Glen Ventura MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 CompTIA A+ http://dts-l.net/ |
#49
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HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:00:41 -0400, "glee"
wrote: "legg" wrote in message .. . I can prevent writing to the W98 boot sector by simply refusing permission, or at least I'm given that impression when booting to W98 after a signature clearance. The present boot.ini file should serve, as neither locations of the W98 or W2k OS are intended to change, physically. I've marked each instance (in the text announcement), so that I can tell which file is being processed, or if it has been replaced. No issues with this file (when booting is possible), so far. .......................... At this point, however, after zeroing discs, the W2K installation appears to be broken. When I try to boot into it now, I get past the security cntrl-alt-del and password entry, only to be returned to the security cntrl-alt-delete window again. There is a long black-screen-with-cursor wait the first time this screen is returned, but quicker response on subsequent OS farts. snip Drive letter assignment changed? Unable to log on if the boot partition drive letter has changed http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249321 I just looooove MS support docs. Can you log on as administrator, if the problem you're trying to solve is logging on? Unfortunately, this machine is not on a network - running regedt32 requires a W2K or later OS to run from, as well. Of course they're not anticipating people intentionally wiping mbrs. The only un-networked action suggested is removing recently cloned drives. The source W98 HD isn'y the clone. Might be able to use the http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223188/ link to rename drive H:\ to C:\, without rewriting signatures, if I'm ever back in that working condition. Was reluctant to start editing the registry while the main boot freeze issue dominated. I'm going to see if the recovery console will do anything first. RL RL |
#50
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HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2
On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 16:40:31 -0500, legg wrote:
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:00:41 -0400, "glee" wrote: "legg" wrote in message . .. I can prevent writing to the W98 boot sector by simply refusing permission, or at least I'm given that impression when booting to W98 after a signature clearance. The present boot.ini file should serve, as neither locations of the W98 or W2k OS are intended to change, physically. I've marked each instance (in the text announcement), so that I can tell which file is being processed, or if it has been replaced. No issues with this file (when booting is possible), so far. .......................... At this point, however, after zeroing discs, the W2K installation appears to be broken. When I try to boot into it now, I get past the security cntrl-alt-del and password entry, only to be returned to the security cntrl-alt-delete window again. There is a long black-screen-with-cursor wait the first time this screen is returned, but quicker response on subsequent OS farts. snip Drive letter assignment changed? Unable to log on if the boot partition drive letter has changed http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249321 I just looooove MS support docs. Can you log on as administrator, if the problem you're trying to solve is logging on? Unfortunately, this machine is not on a network - running regedt32 requires a W2K or later OS to run from, as well. Of course they're not anticipating people intentionally wiping mbrs. The only un-networked action suggested is removing recently cloned drives. The source W98 HD isn'y the clone. Might be able to use the http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223188/ link to rename drive H:\ to C:\, without rewriting signatures, if I'm ever back in that working condition. Was reluctant to start editing the registry while the main boot freeze issue dominated. I'm going to see if the recovery console will do anything first. Can't log on to the recovery console. Same issue, I guess. RL |
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