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#71
February 11th 05, 08:10 PM
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A function of Chaos -- wow I have been seeing that term used here and also in
the XP general newsgroup. Care to elaborate for us, Gary? Thanks in advance! "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... : "Bill in Co." wrote in message : ... : Gary S. Terhune wrote: : "Bill in Co." wrote in message : ... : Gary S. Terhune wrote: : No, that's not what I'm referring to. Simply put, if you had a : problem : with only a few web pages after the update (as compared to before : the : update,) particularly if it wasn't a widely recognized, repeatable : problem, : : It WAS a repeatable problem. In fact, one of the other guys in : here : commented on the exact same thing, if you recall. He went over : to that : videohelp.com website, and got the same results I did, (with the : History : Icon giving an error beep with a mouseover event (Javascript). : : Honestly, that sounds more like a problem of the site architect : going : outside the bounds of proper coding, not a "problem" in IE. : : No, because it worked flawlessly all the time, and all the way up : *until* I : installed that one cumulative update. And it works flawlessly now : again in : IE 6, since whatever caused the problem in that update has been : removed. : : The error message that popped up was "Object Error" (with a sound : event) (on : the first mouseover event - on repeated mouseovers for the *same* : cell, : nothing happened at all). (This behavior was true for all cells on : that : page). And it shouldn't have done this - it's an IE error on my : side, not : the server's side. : : Bill, please try to see things from a less simplistic view. One page, : out of millions, exhibited this behavior on *your* system. It's a : synergistic thing. It took *all* of those factors, your system, how it : was configured, the progression of updates, and the particular code that : was used on that particular page, or those particular pages, to cause : the anamolous behavior. For all you know, if you reformatted and : reinstalled, then updated using that particular update, the behavior : would not repeat. Yes, I'm sure that when you tested it, once you found : it, and without changing anything, it repeated over and over again. : That's not what is meant by repeatable. I assume that you tried : reinstalling the update, ran IE Repair, perhaps used my Clean Boot : porcedures before installing, etc., (?) : : : : I'm NOT asserting that everybody using IE 5.5 SP2 would : *necessarily* : have : got the same problem with that cumulative update, but OTOH, I : wouldn't : bet : against it, either. And it was repeatable. : : And the other IE 5.5 SP2 problem came about as a direct result of a : newer : MSHTML.DLL file behaving unexpectedly on a Google website (only : AFTER the : update) (Behaving incorrectly in some page rendering). Putting : back : the : older MSHTML.DLL file resolved that issue - I verified that several : times. : : Thus undoing whatever the fix was that was installed. Plus, this : case is : just like the other--anamolous behavior on one or two sites. : : Oh, I don't know how "anomalous" it was... If you want to know the : specifics, if you go to Google, and try to read some newsposts over : there, : there is a tag that allows you to "show quoted text" or "hide quoted : text" - : that stopped working properly (if at all). Again, perfect up to : then, and : perfect right now with IE 6. : : a·nom·a·lous : adj. : 1. Deviating from the normal or common order, form, or rule. : 2. Equivocal, as in classification or nature. : : [From Late Latin anmalos, from Greek, uneven : probably from an-, not; : see a-1 + homalos, even (from homos, same. See sem-1 in Indo-European : Roots).] : : I repeat: This rare, anomolous behavior is not, in my book, symptoms of : a "problem" update. It's a function of Chaos as it applies to PC : computer systems. : : -- : Gary S. Terhune : MS MVP Shell/User : "Clean Boot--What it is and why you need it." : http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm : "Security!" : http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm : : 
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#72
February 11th 05, 08:17 PM
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Sorry for the late reply, Robear. I was too tired to coherently respond last
night when I got home from work at about midnight. Robear, due to certain limitations and confidentiality, I will e-mail you the information you request. "PA Bear" wrote in message ... : Sorry to hear this, Roger. : : 867282 /should/ have been found in Add/Remove Programs as either 'IE - : Q867282' or 'Windows XX Hotfix - KB86728'. : : 891781 /should/ have been found in Add/Remove Programs as 'Windows XX : Hotfix - KB891781'. : : [Dan, what do you find in A/RP for these?] : : Any reference to either in WindowsUpdate.log or iuhist.xml (both are files : on your machine)? : : Did you close your anti-virus application and all other running programs : before installing them? : -- : ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) : MS MVP-Windows (Shell, IE/OE) & Security : : : Roger Fink wrote: : Sorry to have to report this but the news is mostly bad: : : 1. When you install the updates, you lose the Troubleshooter function even : when you start it with the workaround, at least that's what happened to : me. : 2. Neither of the updates appeared in Add/Remove. : : Fortunately, GoBack was successful so that now the workaround functions as : it should. Since I now know I can uninstall these updates I'm willing to : try again, but first I'll need a method to uninstall/reinstall the : Troublshooter workaround, or else have some confidence going into it that : reinstalling it over itself will recharge it. : : : PA Bear wrote: : While no one can guarantee it, neither *critical* security update : /should/ cause you any problems, Roger. Each was beta-tested in : Win98. If on the off-chance they do, both are fully uninstallable : via Add/Remove Programs. : : These updates are only available for Win9x users via Windows Update. : : To assure a clean install, your anti-virus application should be : disabled and all other running processes closed before installing : anything, including Windows Updates. : : Roger Fink wrote: : Can someone please explain in clear, direct English, as opposed to : what is on the WU site, what loss in OS or IE functionality will : result from downloading the latest two security updates? (KB867282 & : KB891781) : : For the previous update, I lost Help Troubleshooter, but managed to : bring it back thanks to the Dundat Workaround plus some expert help : from the board. Will I need to reinstall this? Or apply other fixes : for other problems? : : I'm afraid I've finally reached the point where downloading a : critical security update has become a cost/benefit decision. :
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#73
February 11th 05, 08:26 PM
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Nope. Google it. "Chaos Theory". In one aspect, it's a mathematical
explanation of Murphy's Law, sort of. Careful, though. I spent a few years enamored of CT. One of the most rabid scholarly pursuits in my life until I got into Windows. Come to think of it, Dan, dive right in. Maybe it will grab you strong enough to get you to take more breaks from this group, eg. Try applying it to psychology. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Clean Boot--What it is and why you need it." http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm "Security!" http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm "Dan" wrote in message ... A function of Chaos -- wow I have been seeing that term used here and also in the XP general newsgroup. Care to elaborate for us, Gary? Thanks in advance!
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#74
February 11th 05, 08:53 PM
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I see that evil grin and will take your words with a grain of salt. LOL!!
"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... : Nope. Google it. "Chaos Theory". In one aspect, it's a mathematical : explanation of Murphy's Law, sort of. : : Careful, though. I spent a few years enamored of CT. One of the most : rabid scholarly pursuits in my life until I got into Windows. Come to : think of it, Dan, dive right in. Maybe it will grab you strong enough to : get you to take more breaks from this group, eg. Try applying it to : psychology. : : -- : Gary S. Terhune : MS MVP Shell/User : "Clean Boot--What it is and why you need it." : http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm : "Security!" : http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm : : "Dan" wrote in message : ... : A function of Chaos -- wow I have been seeing that term used here and : also in : the XP general newsgroup. Care to elaborate for us, Gary? Thanks in : advance! :
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#75
February 11th 05, 09:28 PM
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Chaos = getting thru PCR's Master Posts.
Dan wrote: A function of Chaos -- wow I have been seeing that term used here and also in the XP general newsgroup. Care to elaborate for us, Gary? Thanks in advance! "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... "Bill in Co." wrote in message ... Gary S. Terhune wrote: "Bill in Co." wrote in message ... Gary S. Terhune wrote: No, that's not what I'm referring to. Simply put, if you had a problem with only a few web pages after the update (as compared to before the update,) particularly if it wasn't a widely recognized, repeatable problem, It WAS a repeatable problem. In fact, one of the other guys in here commented on the exact same thing, if you recall. He went over to that videohelp.com website, and got the same results I did, (with the History Icon giving an error beep with a mouseover event (Javascript). Honestly, that sounds more like a problem of the site architect going outside the bounds of proper coding, not a "problem" in IE. No, because it worked flawlessly all the time, and all the way up *until* I installed that one cumulative update. And it works flawlessly now again in IE 6, since whatever caused the problem in that update has been removed. The error message that popped up was "Object Error" (with a sound event) (on the first mouseover event - on repeated mouseovers for the *same* cell, nothing happened at all). (This behavior was true for all cells on that page). And it shouldn't have done this - it's an IE error on my side, not the server's side. Bill, please try to see things from a less simplistic view. One page, out of millions, exhibited this behavior on *your* system. It's a synergistic thing. It took *all* of those factors, your system, how it was configured, the progression of updates, and the particular code that was used on that particular page, or those particular pages, to cause the anamolous behavior. For all you know, if you reformatted and reinstalled, then updated using that particular update, the behavior would not repeat. Yes, I'm sure that when you tested it, once you found it, and without changing anything, it repeated over and over again. That's not what is meant by repeatable. I assume that you tried reinstalling the update, ran IE Repair, perhaps used my Clean Boot porcedures before installing, etc., (?) I'm NOT asserting that everybody using IE 5.5 SP2 would *necessarily* have got the same problem with that cumulative update, but OTOH, I wouldn't bet against it, either. And it was repeatable. And the other IE 5.5 SP2 problem came about as a direct result of a newer MSHTML.DLL file behaving unexpectedly on a Google website (only AFTER the update) (Behaving incorrectly in some page rendering). Putting back the older MSHTML.DLL file resolved that issue - I verified that several times. Thus undoing whatever the fix was that was installed. Plus, this case is just like the other--anamolous behavior on one or two sites. Oh, I don't know how "anomalous" it was... If you want to know the specifics, if you go to Google, and try to read some newsposts over there, there is a tag that allows you to "show quoted text" or "hide quoted text" - that stopped working properly (if at all). Again, perfect up to then, and perfect right now with IE 6. a·nom·a·lous adj. 1. Deviating from the normal or common order, form, or rule. 2. Equivocal, as in classification or nature. [From Late Latin anmalos, from Greek, uneven : probably from an-, not; see a-1 + homalos, even (from homos, same. See sem-1 in Indo-European Roots).] I repeat: This rare, anomolous behavior is not, in my book, symptoms of a "problem" update. It's a function of Chaos as it applies to PC computer systems. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Clean Boot--What it is and why you need it." http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm "Security!" http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
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#76
February 11th 05, 09:30 PM
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Actually, I meant what I said insofar as CT being an enthralling study,
s. And you sound like just the type of person to get totally wrapped up in it. I recommend a book or two on the subject. However, my memory is shot and I can't pull any specific titles or authors up at this time. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Clean Boot--What it is and why you need it." http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm "Security!" http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm "Dan" wrote in message ... I see that evil grin and will take your words with a grain of salt. LOL!! "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message ... : Nope. Google it. "Chaos Theory". In one aspect, it's a mathematical : explanation of Murphy's Law, sort of. : : Careful, though. I spent a few years enamored of CT. One of the most : rabid scholarly pursuits in my life until I got into Windows. Come to : think of it, Dan, dive right in. Maybe it will grab you strong enough to : get you to take more breaks from this group, eg. Try applying it to : psychology. : : -- : Gary S. Terhune : MS MVP Shell/User : "Clean Boot--What it is and why you need it." : http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm : "Security!" : http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm : : "Dan" wrote in message : ... : A function of Chaos -- wow I have been seeing that term used here and : also in : the XP general newsgroup. Care to elaborate for us, Gary? Thanks in : advance! :
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#77
February 11th 05, 09:33 PM
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Well, ok, maybe something on my system was a bit unique. I, for one,
certainly can't deny that! That said, I'm keeping the status quo here, with just IE 6 SP1. I don't need/want anymore "unique" chaotic experiences in my life right now. :-) Gary S. Terhune wrote: "Bill in Co." wrote in message ... Gary S. Terhune wrote: "Bill in Co." wrote in message ... Gary S. Terhune wrote: No, that's not what I'm referring to. Simply put, if you had a problem with only a few web pages after the update (as compared to before the update,) particularly if it wasn't a widely recognized, repeatable problem, It WAS a repeatable problem. In fact, one of the other guys in here commented on the exact same thing, if you recall. He went over to that videohelp.com website, and got the same results I did, (with the History Icon giving an error beep with a mouseover event (Javascript). Honestly, that sounds more like a problem of the site architect going outside the bounds of proper coding, not a "problem" in IE. No, because it worked flawlessly all the time, and all the way up *until* I installed that one cumulative update. And it works flawlessly now again in IE 6, since whatever caused the problem in that update has been removed. The error message that popped up was "Object Error" (with a sound event) (on the first mouseover event - on repeated mouseovers for the *same* cell, nothing happened at all). (This behavior was true for all cells on that page). And it shouldn't have done this - it's an IE error on my side, not the server's side. Bill, please try to see things from a less simplistic view. One page, out of millions, exhibited this behavior on *your* system. It's a synergistic thing. It took *all* of those factors, your system, how it was configured, the progression of updates, and the particular code that was used on that particular page, or those particular pages, to cause the anamolous behavior. For all you know, if you reformatted and reinstalled, then updated using that particular update, the behavior would not repeat. Yes, I'm sure that when you tested it, once you found it, and without changing anything, it repeated over and over again. That's not what is meant by repeatable. I assume that you tried reinstalling the update, ran IE Repair, perhaps used my Clean Boot porcedures before installing, etc., (?) I'm NOT asserting that everybody using IE 5.5 SP2 would *necessarily* have got the same problem with that cumulative update, but OTOH, I wouldn't bet against it, either. And it was repeatable. And the other IE 5.5 SP2 problem came about as a direct result of a newer MSHTML.DLL file behaving unexpectedly on a Google website (only AFTER the update) (Behaving incorrectly in some page rendering). Putting back the older MSHTML.DLL file resolved that issue - I verified that several times. Thus undoing whatever the fix was that was installed. Plus, this case is just like the other--anamolous behavior on one or two sites. Oh, I don't know how "anomalous" it was... If you want to know the specifics, if you go to Google, and try to read some newsposts over there, there is a tag that allows you to "show quoted text" or "hide quoted text" - that stopped working properly (if at all). Again, perfect up to then, and perfect right now with IE 6. a·nom·a·lous adj. 1. Deviating from the normal or common order, form, or rule. 2. Equivocal, as in classification or nature. [From Late Latin anmalos, from Greek, uneven : probably from an-, not; see a-1 + homalos, even (from homos, same. See sem-1 in Indo-European Roots).] I repeat: This rare, anomolous behavior is not, in my book, symptoms of a "problem" update. It's a function of Chaos as it applies to PC computer systems. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Clean Boot--What it is and why you need it." http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm "Security!" http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
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#78
February 11th 05, 10:22 PM
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Don't let the "C" in PCR fool you!
-- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, should things get worse after this, PCR "Bill in Co." wrote in message ... | Chaos = getting thru PCR's Master Posts. | | Dan wrote: | A function of Chaos -- wow I have been seeing that term used here and also | in | the XP general newsgroup. Care to elaborate for us, Gary? Thanks in | advance! | | "Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message | ... ....snip
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#80
February 11th 05, 10:27 PM
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Well, I can understand that, s. I occasionally idly wish I was less
inclined to change simply for the sake of change--alas, that's just not the way I'm wired, g. -- Gary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User "Clean Boot--What it is and why you need it." http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm "Security!" http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm "Bill in Co." wrote in message ... Well, ok, maybe something on my system was a bit unique. I, for one, certainly can't deny that! That said, I'm keeping the status quo here, with just IE 6 SP1. I don't need/want anymore "unique" chaotic experiences in my life right now. :-)
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