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#1
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Problem getting a new XP computer to join an NT 4.0/Win 98 domain
Hi,
I'm pretty inexperienced with anything beyond simple peer-to- peer networks, although I have set up and worked with a lot of these and know the basics pretty well. This is a recent problem that I need some help with. We have a simple network that was set up years ago and has functioned well enough for quite some time. When I started working here we decided that we would gradually start updating the computers and the file server with the goal of getting things into the 20th century. We just bought a couple of Dell workstations with Windows XP and I've already run into something today that I couldn't solve via trial-and-error. I'll be hitting the books later, but I have a feeling this might be something very simple that more knowledgable folks could answer easily, so I'm posting here and I guess to the Win98 networking group as well. The current setup has a bunch of machines running Win 98 SE and one machine with Win 2000 Pro. There is a file server that runs NT 4.0 and *I believe* is also a domain controller. At least all the existing computers are configured to log onto a domain with a password at bootup. If you scan Network Neighborhood for the Entire Network after booting, there are 3 workgroups: Domain, Office and Workgroup. The workgroup "Domain" (which is also the domain's name... ;-)) has only the server as a member, with a couple of shares set up so all the computers can access and store data files on the server. The other two workgroups have 4 and 5 computers resepectively. All the computers map to the server shares and all is fine. In attempting to set up the new Dell workstation, which has XP Professional, I am able to see the workgroups "Office" and "Workgroup" and all the computers and shares in them. The workgroup "Domain," however, doesn't show up at all. I figured this is because the XP machine hasn't been set up to log onto the domain, "Domain," but whenever I try to set it up that way, i.e., change the workgroup setting to a domain, I just get a quick search and then an error message saying that no domain controller can be found. I've gotten as far as reading the minimal troubleshooting notes in XP and it sounded like there might be some DNS setup issues with the NT 4.0/Windows 98 setup, but I'm just over my head with that. In a nutshell I need to somehow make it possible for the new XP machines to see and map to shares on the NT file server. Once that's all configured and users are getting used to the new interface we'll move on to getting a more up-to-date server, possibly install Small Business Server 2003, etc., etc. But this is like stumbling right out of the blocks of a mile race ;-)! Any pointers/advice/solutions appreciated. Best regards, Stephen Porter Los Angeles, CA |
#2
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"Stephen Porter" wrote in message om... Hi, I'm pretty inexperienced with anything beyond simple peer-to- peer networks, although I have set up and worked with a lot of these and know the basics pretty well. This is a recent problem that I need some help with. We have a simple network that was set up years ago and has functioned well enough for quite some time. When I started working here we decided that we would gradually start updating the computers and the file server with the goal of getting things into the 20th century. We just bought a couple of Dell workstations with Windows XP and I've already run into something today that I couldn't solve via trial-and-error. I'll be hitting the books later, but I have a feeling this might be something very simple that more knowledgable folks could answer easily, so I'm posting here and I guess to the Win98 networking group as well. The current setup has a bunch of machines running Win 98 SE and one machine with Win 2000 Pro. There is a file server that runs NT 4.0 and *I believe* is also a domain controller. At least all the existing computers are configured to log onto a domain with a password at bootup. If you scan Network Neighborhood for the Entire Network after booting, there are 3 workgroups: Domain, Office and Workgroup. The workgroup "Domain" (which is also the domain's name... ;-)) has only the server as a member, with a couple of shares set up so all the computers can access and store data files on the server. The other two workgroups have 4 and 5 computers resepectively. All the computers map to the server shares and all is fine. In attempting to set up the new Dell workstation, which has XP Professional, I am able to see the workgroups "Office" and "Workgroup" and all the computers and shares in them. The workgroup "Domain," however, doesn't show up at all. I figured this is because the XP machine hasn't been set up to log onto the domain, "Domain," but whenever I try to set it up that way, i.e., change the workgroup setting to a domain, I just get a quick search and then an error message saying that no domain controller can be found. I've gotten as far as reading the minimal troubleshooting notes in XP and it sounded like there might be some DNS setup issues with the NT 4.0/Windows 98 setup, but I'm just over my head with that. In a nutshell I need to somehow make it possible for the new XP machines to see and map to shares on the NT file server. Once that's all configured and users are getting used to the new interface we'll move on to getting a more up-to-date server, possibly install Small Business Server 2003, etc., etc. But this is like stumbling right out of the blocks of a mile race ;-)! Any pointers/advice/solutions appreciated. Best regards, Stephen Porter Los Angeles, CA Your post needs some clarification. Your Subject line reads "Problem getting a new XP computer to join an NT 4.0/Win 98 domain". There is no such thing as a Win98 domain. You can have an NT4 domain, if you run WinNT4 server. You have to establish once and for all if you run in a workgroup environment or in a domain environment. If your existing NT4/ Win2000/WinXP clients show three boxes on the logon screen (User name, Password, Domain name), and if you can select "Domain" as a logon domain then you are in a domain environment. Domains are here to - validate user accounts centrally - run centralised logon scripts - apply policies Domains have nothing at all to do with file or folder sharing. In other words, you can share a folder on some server regardless of its status as a domain controller or as a file server. However: If you operate in a workgroup environment then you must manually synchronise every account name and password on every machine. In a domain environment, account details are held centrally on the domain controller, hence no synchronisation is required. Lastly: If all your machines belong to the same workgroup or to the same domain then you can see the various shares in Explorer. If they belong to different workgroups or domains then you cannot easily see shares on other machines. However, you can still map a share - if you know the address! You could, for example, type this command from a Command Prompt: net use x: \\SomeServer\SomeShare The command is completely independent of any domain or workgroup settings that you might have in place. It only depends on these things: - IP address - User name / password - Existence of the nominated share - Firewall settings (firewall tend to block things, including your attempt at registering your WinXP machine on the domain!) |
#3
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You're really getting things STAY into the 20th century with Win98 and NT4
) Sounds like there is the workgroups only. Keep in mind XP should have NetBIOS enabled over TCP/IP in pre-W2k network and XP can win master browser elections over any NT4 and W2k system. |
#4
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Hi,
I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond to your comments and suggestions until now. I've been doing several other things, but this is still a problem. I understand all your points. I did a bit more poking around and all of the computers on this network do log onto a domain, in this case named "Domain" (just to make things confusing!). I'm going to insert another write-up of the situation here in the hopes that you might be able to point me further in the right direction. As you will read, the problem seems to be that the XP box will NOT recognize the NT 4.0 machine as a valid domain controller. Why this should affect the XP box's ability to "see" the server, I'm not sure. I'm hoping that you will see this be able to respond again. TIA. __________________________________________ More details on the XP/Win 98/NT 4.0 network problem: Situation: the place where I work has a very simple network setup that has been functioning without problems for several years--before I came on board and ended up with the responsibility for handling the occasional glitch and other computer-related things. There are about 9 computers on the network. The file server runs NT 4.0 and 7 of the workstations are running Win 98 SE. One workstation runs Win 2K Professional. All of the computers are set up to logon onto a domain--although they really don't have to be set up this way in this simple scenario, at least I don't know of any reason they should. The domain name is "Domain". The owner of the company wants to gradually upgrade all the computers on the network and as a first step I ordered two Dell boxes with XP Professional on them. I'm trying to get the first one set up as a workstation on the network and am not able to either log on to the domain, nor am I able to see the file server at all. Further details: there are 3 workgroups defined on the network. Again, I inherited all this setup and would like to simplify/streamline and improve everything, but I want to do it gradually and hopefully not break anything in the process. Workgroup 1: "Domain" -- 1 member, which is the file server itself. Workgroup 2: "Workgroup" -- 5 members Workgroup 3: "Office" -- 4 members ALL of the OLD workstations see all 3 of these workgroups and can access any shares enabled on the file server and/or any workstation with shares defined. The NEW XP workstation sees only the two non-server workgroups: "Workgroup" and "Office". The XP box itself is currently a member of the "Workgroup" workgroup, but I've tried changing it to "Office" and "Domain" with no joy. I was/am working on theory that in order to see the file server the XP box needs to log onto the domain, "Domain," and have tried to get it to do so by changing the Network ID dialog with the radio button for setting it up to log on to a domain controller. Whenever I set it up this way, I get an error message saying that "no domain controller can be found" and that's that--it just reverts back to the workgroup setting, and I can see all the computer in the two other workgroups, but not the file server, which is in the workgroup "Domain." (I hope this isn't too confusing ;-). Once I feel I can work with this without breaking anything I intend to remove these ambiguous/confusing names.) The people who originally set up and have worked on this network in the past are all scattered to the winds, but I did call someone a colleague recommended as a possible consultant. He seemed to be well-credentialed and sounded as though he knew what he was talking about, although he thought that our network and company are too small for him to take on as a client, and, frankly, he's quite expensive and only works on monthly contracts. But he was congenial and in a nutshell he told me that XP boxes will not recognize NT 4.0 boxes--at least as domain controllers. According to him our only two choices in this situation would be to revert the new XP boxes to Win 2K Pro OR to upgrade the server to Server 2002/3 OR to possibly just use another Win XP box as the server and make it a REALLY simple, peer-to-peer network. I thanked him and started thinking about this problem and recalled that I do have experience with another company where the file server is running NT 4.0 and it has SEVERAL XP boxes that have no trouble at all seeing the file server and any shares on it. In this case, however, there is NO domain to be logged onto. So I'm not entirely trusting what the $175/hour consultant is saying--is the "incompatibility" (which he claims MS built into XP in order to get people to upgrade from NT servers) is domain- related? Or is it just not true and there is some other solution. If he is right and the problem is related to the fact that I can't seem to get the XP box to recognize the domain, "Domain," then is there some way to safely revert the file server from being a domain controller and just change all the workstations to simple peer-to-peer mode?? Target # 1 here is to just get these XP boxes running as workstations with as little fuss as possible. Then we will address the issue of adding more XP boxes at the workstations and also buying an upgraded server. We're thinking about getting Small Business Server 2003, although that's probably overkill also. I would like to get a server with a RAID setup to provide some redundancy--but that's secondary now. Thanks in advance for any help. I'm sure the people here will be able to steer me in the right direction on this one. |
#5
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Problem getting a new XP computer to join an NT 4.0/Win 98 domain
Hi,
I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond to your comments and suggestions until now. I've been doing several other things, but this is still a problem. I understand all your points. I did a bit more poking around and all of the computers on this network do log onto a domain, in this case named "Domain" (just to make things confusing!). I'm going to insert another write-up of the situation here in the hopes that you might be able to point me further in the right direction. As you will read, the problem seems to be that the XP box will NOT recognize the NT 4.0 machine as a valid domain controller. Why this should affect the XP box's ability to "see" the server, I'm not sure. I'm hoping that you will see this be able to respond again. TIA. __________________________________________ More details on the XP/Win 98/NT 4.0 network problem: Situation: the place where I work has a very simple network setup that has been functioning without problems for several years--before I came on board and ended up with the responsibility for handling the occasional glitch and other computer-related things. There are about 9 computers on the network. The file server runs NT 4.0 and 7 of the workstations are running Win 98 SE. One workstation runs Win 2K Professional. All of the computers are set up to logon onto a domain--although they really don't have to be set up this way in this simple scenario, at least I don't know of any reason they should. The domain name is "Domain". The owner of the company wants to gradually upgrade all the computers on the network and as a first step I ordered two Dell boxes with XP Professional on them. I'm trying to get the first one set up as a workstation on the network and am not able to either log on to the domain, nor am I able to see the file server at all. Further details: there are 3 workgroups defined on the network. Again, I inherited all this setup and would like to simplify/streamline and improve everything, but I want to do it gradually and hopefully not break anything in the process. Workgroup 1: "Domain" -- 1 member, which is the file server itself. Workgroup 2: "Workgroup" -- 5 members Workgroup 3: "Office" -- 4 members ALL of the OLD workstations see all 3 of these workgroups and can access any shares enabled on the file server and/or any workstation with shares defined. The NEW XP workstation sees only the two non-server workgroups: "Workgroup" and "Office". The XP box itself is currently a member of the "Workgroup" workgroup, but I've tried changing it to "Office" and "Domain" with no joy. I was/am working on theory that in order to see the file server the XP box needs to log onto the domain, "Domain," and have tried to get it to do so by changing the Network ID dialog with the radio button for setting it up to log on to a domain controller. Whenever I set it up this way, I get an error message saying that "no domain controller can be found" and that's that--it just reverts back to the workgroup setting, and I can see all the computer in the two other workgroups, but not the file server, which is in the workgroup "Domain." (I hope this isn't too confusing ;-). Once I feel I can work with this without breaking anything I intend to remove these ambiguous/confusing names.) The people who originally set up and have worked on this network in the past are all scattered to the winds, but I did call someone a colleague recommended as a possible consultant. He seemed to be well-credentialed and sounded as though he knew what he was talking about, although he thought that our network and company are too small for him to take on as a client, and, frankly, he's quite expensive and only works on monthly contracts. But he was congenial and in a nutshell he told me that XP boxes will not recognize NT 4.0 boxes--at least as domain controllers. According to him our only two choices in this situation would be to revert the new XP boxes to Win 2K Pro OR to upgrade the server to Server 2002/3 OR to possibly just use another Win XP box as the server and make it a REALLY simple, peer-to-peer network. I thanked him and started thinking about this problem and recalled that I do have experience with another company where the file server is running NT 4.0 and it has SEVERAL XP boxes that have no trouble at all seeing the file server and any shares on it. In this case, however, there is NO domain to be logged onto. So I'm not entirely trusting what the $175/hour consultant is saying--is the "incompatibility" (which he claims MS built into XP in order to get people to upgrade from NT servers) is domain- related? Or is it just not true and there is some other solution. If he is right and the problem is related to the fact that I can't seem to get the XP box to recognize the domain, "Domain," then is there some way to safely revert the file server from being a domain controller and just change all the workstations to simple peer-to-peer mode?? Target # 1 here is to just get these XP boxes running as workstations with as little fuss as possible. Then we will address the issue of adding more XP boxes at the workstations and also buying an upgraded server. We're thinking about getting Small Business Server 2003, although that's probably overkill also. I would like to get a server with a RAID setup to provide some redundancy--but that's secondary now. Thanks in advance for any help. I'm sure the people here will be able to steer me in the right direction on this one. |
#6
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See below.
"Stephen Porter" wrote in message om... Hi, I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond to your comments and suggestions until now. I've been doing several other things, but this is still a problem. I understand all your points. I did a bit more poking around and all of the computers on this network do log onto a domain, in this case named "Domain" (just to make things confusing!). I'm going to insert another write-up of the situation here in the hopes that you might be able to point me further in the right direction. As you will read, the problem seems to be that the XP box will NOT recognize the NT 4.0 machine as a valid domain controller. Why this should affect the XP box's ability to "see" the server, I'm not sure. I'm hoping that you will see this be able to respond again. TIA. __________________________________________ More details on the XP/Win 98/NT 4.0 network problem: Situation: the place where I work has a very simple network setup that has been functioning without problems for several years--before I came on board and ended up with the responsibility for handling the occasional glitch and other computer-related things. There are about 9 computers on the network. The file server runs NT 4.0 and 7 of the workstations are running Win 98 SE. One workstation runs Win 2K Professional. All of the computers are set up to logon onto a domain--although they really don't have to be set up this way in this simple scenario, at least I don't know of any reason they should. The domain name is "Domain". The owner of the company wants to gradually upgrade all the computers on the network and as a first step I ordered two Dell boxes with XP Professional on them. I'm trying to get the first one set up as a workstation on the network and am not able to either log on to the domain, nor am I able to see the file server at all. Further details: there are 3 workgroups defined on the network. Again, I inherited all this setup and would like to simplify/streamline and improve everything, but I want to do it gradually and hopefully not break anything in the process. Workgroup 1: "Domain" -- 1 member, which is the file server itself. Workgroup 2: "Workgroup" -- 5 members Workgroup 3: "Office" -- 4 members ALL of the OLD workstations see all 3 of these workgroups and can access any shares enabled on the file server and/or any workstation with shares defined. There is a widespread misconception that "workgroups" and "domains" control the degree of access that users have to networked resources. Not so. Domains are a convenient way of managing accounts centrally. Workgroups are a convenient way of showing network resources in "Explorer". They do NOT restrict a user's access to a given resource! While your WinXP PCs are unable to access shares defined on the other PCs, get back to basics and start working from a Command Prompt on a WinXP PC. Look at these things: - Run ipconfig.exe /all. Are the IP address details compatible with your WinNT machine? Can you ping the server? - Accounts. Does your local WinXP account/password have an identical account defined on your WinNT machine? - Firewall: Is your WinXP firewall turned off? Is the firewall that is bundled with your virus scanner turned off? - Share. What do you get when you type this command: net use x: \\YourServer\YourShare The NEW XP workstation sees only the two non-server workgroups: "Workgroup" and "Office". The XP box itself is currently a member of the "Workgroup" workgroup, but I've tried changing it to "Office" and "Domain" with no joy. What does "see" in "The NEW XP workstation sees only . . ." mean? Are you working out of Explorer? Use a Command Prompt - it is much more direct, it makes fewer assumptions and generates has far more informative error messages. GUIS are for users; administrators must get used to working from the command line! I was/am working on theory that in order to see the file server the XP box needs to log onto the domain, "Domain," and have tried to get it to do so by changing the Network ID dialog with the radio button for setting it up to log on to a domain controller. Whenever I set it up this way, I get an error message saying that "no domain controller can be found" and that's that--it just reverts back to the workgroup setting, This usually happens when a firewall blocks traffic. and I can see all the computer in the two other workgroups, but not the file server, which is in the workgroup "Domain." (I hope this isn't too confusing ;-). When I want to "see" another machine then I do this: - Log on as administrator. - Start a Command Prompt. - Issue this command: dir \\OtherPC\SomeShare I never use Explorer for trouble-shooting, because it was never intended as a trouble-shooting tool. Once I feel I can work with this without breaking anything I intend to remove these ambiguous/confusing names.) The people who originally set up and have worked on this network in the past are all scattered to the winds, but I did call someone a colleague recommended as a possible consultant. He seemed to be well-credentialed and sounded as though he knew what he was talking about, although he thought that our network and company are too small for him to take on as a client, and, frankly, he's quite expensive and only works on monthly contracts. But he was congenial and in a nutshell he told me that XP boxes will not recognize NT 4.0 boxes--at least as domain controllers. I doubt that this is correct but then I don't have any NT domains left, and setting one up just to give you an authoritative answer to your question seems a little over the top. You might try one of these newsgroups to settle this issue: - comp.os.ms.windows.nt.admin.networking - comp.os.ms.windows.nt.admin.misc According to him our only two choices in this situation would be to revert the new XP boxes to Win 2K Pro OR to upgrade the server to Server 2002/3 OR to possibly just use another Win XP box as the server and make it a REALLY simple, peer-to-peer network. I thanked him and started thinking about this problem and recalled that I do have experience with another company where the file server is running NT 4.0 and it has SEVERAL XP boxes that have no trouble at all seeing the file server and any shares on it. In this case, however, there is NO domain to be logged onto. So I'm not entirely trusting what the $175/hour consultant is saying--is the "incompatibility" (which he claims MS built into XP in order to get people to upgrade from NT servers) is domain- related? Or is it just not true and there is some other solution. If he is right and the problem is related to the fact that I can't seem to get the XP box to recognize the domain, "Domain," then is there some way to safely revert the file server from being a domain controller and just change all the workstations to simple peer-to-peer mode?? Target # 1 here is to just get these XP boxes running as workstations with as little fuss as possible. Then we will address the issue of adding more XP boxes at the workstations and also buying an upgraded server. We're thinking about getting Small Business Server 2003, although that's probably overkill also. I would like to get a server with a RAID setup to provide some redundancy--but that's secondary now. Thanks in advance for any help. I'm sure the people here will be able to steer me in the right direction on this one. |
#7
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Problem getting a new XP computer to join an NT 4.0/Win 98 domain
See below.
"Stephen Porter" wrote in message om... Hi, I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond to your comments and suggestions until now. I've been doing several other things, but this is still a problem. I understand all your points. I did a bit more poking around and all of the computers on this network do log onto a domain, in this case named "Domain" (just to make things confusing!). I'm going to insert another write-up of the situation here in the hopes that you might be able to point me further in the right direction. As you will read, the problem seems to be that the XP box will NOT recognize the NT 4.0 machine as a valid domain controller. Why this should affect the XP box's ability to "see" the server, I'm not sure. I'm hoping that you will see this be able to respond again. TIA. __________________________________________ More details on the XP/Win 98/NT 4.0 network problem: Situation: the place where I work has a very simple network setup that has been functioning without problems for several years--before I came on board and ended up with the responsibility for handling the occasional glitch and other computer-related things. There are about 9 computers on the network. The file server runs NT 4.0 and 7 of the workstations are running Win 98 SE. One workstation runs Win 2K Professional. All of the computers are set up to logon onto a domain--although they really don't have to be set up this way in this simple scenario, at least I don't know of any reason they should. The domain name is "Domain". The owner of the company wants to gradually upgrade all the computers on the network and as a first step I ordered two Dell boxes with XP Professional on them. I'm trying to get the first one set up as a workstation on the network and am not able to either log on to the domain, nor am I able to see the file server at all. Further details: there are 3 workgroups defined on the network. Again, I inherited all this setup and would like to simplify/streamline and improve everything, but I want to do it gradually and hopefully not break anything in the process. Workgroup 1: "Domain" -- 1 member, which is the file server itself. Workgroup 2: "Workgroup" -- 5 members Workgroup 3: "Office" -- 4 members ALL of the OLD workstations see all 3 of these workgroups and can access any shares enabled on the file server and/or any workstation with shares defined. There is a widespread misconception that "workgroups" and "domains" control the degree of access that users have to networked resources. Not so. Domains are a convenient way of managing accounts centrally. Workgroups are a convenient way of showing network resources in "Explorer". They do NOT restrict a user's access to a given resource! While your WinXP PCs are unable to access shares defined on the other PCs, get back to basics and start working from a Command Prompt on a WinXP PC. Look at these things: - Run ipconfig.exe /all. Are the IP address details compatible with your WinNT machine? Can you ping the server? - Accounts. Does your local WinXP account/password have an identical account defined on your WinNT machine? - Firewall: Is your WinXP firewall turned off? Is the firewall that is bundled with your virus scanner turned off? - Share. What do you get when you type this command: net use x: \\YourServer\YourShare The NEW XP workstation sees only the two non-server workgroups: "Workgroup" and "Office". The XP box itself is currently a member of the "Workgroup" workgroup, but I've tried changing it to "Office" and "Domain" with no joy. What does "see" in "The NEW XP workstation sees only . . ." mean? Are you working out of Explorer? Use a Command Prompt - it is much more direct, it makes fewer assumptions and generates has far more informative error messages. GUIS are for users; administrators must get used to working from the command line! I was/am working on theory that in order to see the file server the XP box needs to log onto the domain, "Domain," and have tried to get it to do so by changing the Network ID dialog with the radio button for setting it up to log on to a domain controller. Whenever I set it up this way, I get an error message saying that "no domain controller can be found" and that's that--it just reverts back to the workgroup setting, This usually happens when a firewall blocks traffic. and I can see all the computer in the two other workgroups, but not the file server, which is in the workgroup "Domain." (I hope this isn't too confusing ;-). When I want to "see" another machine then I do this: - Log on as administrator. - Start a Command Prompt. - Issue this command: dir \\OtherPC\SomeShare I never use Explorer for trouble-shooting, because it was never intended as a trouble-shooting tool. Once I feel I can work with this without breaking anything I intend to remove these ambiguous/confusing names.) The people who originally set up and have worked on this network in the past are all scattered to the winds, but I did call someone a colleague recommended as a possible consultant. He seemed to be well-credentialed and sounded as though he knew what he was talking about, although he thought that our network and company are too small for him to take on as a client, and, frankly, he's quite expensive and only works on monthly contracts. But he was congenial and in a nutshell he told me that XP boxes will not recognize NT 4.0 boxes--at least as domain controllers. I doubt that this is correct but then I don't have any NT domains left, and setting one up just to give you an authoritative answer to your question seems a little over the top. You might try one of these newsgroups to settle this issue: - comp.os.ms.windows.nt.admin.networking - comp.os.ms.windows.nt.admin.misc According to him our only two choices in this situation would be to revert the new XP boxes to Win 2K Pro OR to upgrade the server to Server 2002/3 OR to possibly just use another Win XP box as the server and make it a REALLY simple, peer-to-peer network. I thanked him and started thinking about this problem and recalled that I do have experience with another company where the file server is running NT 4.0 and it has SEVERAL XP boxes that have no trouble at all seeing the file server and any shares on it. In this case, however, there is NO domain to be logged onto. So I'm not entirely trusting what the $175/hour consultant is saying--is the "incompatibility" (which he claims MS built into XP in order to get people to upgrade from NT servers) is domain- related? Or is it just not true and there is some other solution. If he is right and the problem is related to the fact that I can't seem to get the XP box to recognize the domain, "Domain," then is there some way to safely revert the file server from being a domain controller and just change all the workstations to simple peer-to-peer mode?? Target # 1 here is to just get these XP boxes running as workstations with as little fuss as possible. Then we will address the issue of adding more XP boxes at the workstations and also buying an upgraded server. We're thinking about getting Small Business Server 2003, although that's probably overkill also. I would like to get a server with a RAID setup to provide some redundancy--but that's secondary now. Thanks in advance for any help. I'm sure the people here will be able to steer me in the right direction on this one. |
#8
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Hi again,
Thanks for the response. I appreciate your help in analyzing this, especially since it's pretty clear that I'm missing some basic concepts here. I DO understand the differentiation between "domains" and "workgroups," though. If there is NO requirement for the XP to log onto the domain then the problem lies elsewhere. Here are the answers to the questions you ask. - Run ipconfig.exe /all. Are the IP address details compatible with your WinNT machine? Can you ping the server? The server's IP address is fixed: 192.0.0.180/255.255.255.0. This address and sub-net doesn't seem to fit into any of the IP addresses on any of the workstations. The XP machine CANNOT ping the server. Neither can any of the other workstations. The XP machine's IP: 169.254.42.244/255.255.0.0 All the other workstations that I have tried have similar IP's: 169.254.105.162; 169.254.42.244; 169.254.105.162. All these have the same sub-net address: 255.255.255.0. I'm not clear on the concept of subnet's but apparently all the various workgroup computers are on a different subnet than the server. And none of them can ping the server. All of them can also "see" and access the shares on the server and the server can likewise see all of the workstations EXCEPT the XP machine. The XP machine can also "see" and access the shares on any of the other workstations. So it's just the server and the XP machine that have the incompatibility as far as shares go. I was tempted to change the subnet and maybe the IP address on the server, but the last thing I can afford to happen is to block or break the current connection that all the other workstations have to the server, so I'll wait until I'm more certain of what to do. The server has both TCP/IP and NETBEUI bound to the NIC and all the workstations do also. I noticed that this protocol is not available in the XP dialogs, but there is an "NW Link NETBIOS" protocol bound to the NIC in the XP box. I don't know if this is XP's version of NETBEUI, or whether it's part of the problem. - Accounts. Does your local WinXP account/password have an identical account defined on your WinNT machine? Yes. I've set up several accounts on the XP machine that match the user accounts on the server exactly and tested each one. - Firewall: Is your WinXP firewall turned off? Is the firewall that is bundled with your virus scanner turned off? Yes. No firewalls are active. - Share. What do you get when you type this command: net use x: \\YourServer\YourShare "The network path was not found." I also did a little research in "Windows XP Inside Out" and came up with the following, which might be germane to this problem: "NetBEUI. This protocol (short for NetBIOS Extended User Interface) is available as an unsupported option in Windows XP. It was originally developed for use on small networks running Windows 3.x NetBEUI can cause performance problems on some networks and should only be used when an exiting network configuration requires it. In most cases IPX/SPX is a better choice." I'm in over my head on this, but as I mentioned, the protocols bound to the NIC on the server are NetBEUI *and* TCP/IP. So I'm not sure whether this might be the problem or not. It seems that all the other computers have the same sub-net-not- matching problem and they are all able to access server shares, and NOT able to ping the server, so the missing NetBEUI seems to be a the only thing missing. Thanks again for following this. I'm going to try and hit a few books tonight and learn more about sub-nets. I'm not sure why the server has an assigned IP and why the sub-net is different, but as I mentioned, I don't want to change that unless I'm sure I won't undo something that is working. Best regards, Stephen Porter |
#9
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Problem getting a new XP computer to join an NT 4.0/Win 98 domain
Hi again,
Thanks for the response. I appreciate your help in analyzing this, especially since it's pretty clear that I'm missing some basic concepts here. I DO understand the differentiation between "domains" and "workgroups," though. If there is NO requirement for the XP to log onto the domain then the problem lies elsewhere. Here are the answers to the questions you ask. - Run ipconfig.exe /all. Are the IP address details compatible with your WinNT machine? Can you ping the server? The server's IP address is fixed: 192.0.0.180/255.255.255.0. This address and sub-net doesn't seem to fit into any of the IP addresses on any of the workstations. The XP machine CANNOT ping the server. Neither can any of the other workstations. The XP machine's IP: 169.254.42.244/255.255.0.0 All the other workstations that I have tried have similar IP's: 169.254.105.162; 169.254.42.244; 169.254.105.162. All these have the same sub-net address: 255.255.255.0. I'm not clear on the concept of subnet's but apparently all the various workgroup computers are on a different subnet than the server. And none of them can ping the server. All of them can also "see" and access the shares on the server and the server can likewise see all of the workstations EXCEPT the XP machine. The XP machine can also "see" and access the shares on any of the other workstations. So it's just the server and the XP machine that have the incompatibility as far as shares go. I was tempted to change the subnet and maybe the IP address on the server, but the last thing I can afford to happen is to block or break the current connection that all the other workstations have to the server, so I'll wait until I'm more certain of what to do. The server has both TCP/IP and NETBEUI bound to the NIC and all the workstations do also. I noticed that this protocol is not available in the XP dialogs, but there is an "NW Link NETBIOS" protocol bound to the NIC in the XP box. I don't know if this is XP's version of NETBEUI, or whether it's part of the problem. - Accounts. Does your local WinXP account/password have an identical account defined on your WinNT machine? Yes. I've set up several accounts on the XP machine that match the user accounts on the server exactly and tested each one. - Firewall: Is your WinXP firewall turned off? Is the firewall that is bundled with your virus scanner turned off? Yes. No firewalls are active. - Share. What do you get when you type this command: net use x: \\YourServer\YourShare "The network path was not found." I also did a little research in "Windows XP Inside Out" and came up with the following, which might be germane to this problem: "NetBEUI. This protocol (short for NetBIOS Extended User Interface) is available as an unsupported option in Windows XP. It was originally developed for use on small networks running Windows 3.x NetBEUI can cause performance problems on some networks and should only be used when an exiting network configuration requires it. In most cases IPX/SPX is a better choice." I'm in over my head on this, but as I mentioned, the protocols bound to the NIC on the server are NetBEUI *and* TCP/IP. So I'm not sure whether this might be the problem or not. It seems that all the other computers have the same sub-net-not- matching problem and they are all able to access server shares, and NOT able to ping the server, so the missing NetBEUI seems to be a the only thing missing. Thanks again for following this. I'm going to try and hit a few books tonight and learn more about sub-nets. I'm not sure why the server has an assigned IP and why the sub-net is different, but as I mentioned, I don't want to change that unless I'm sure I won't undo something that is working. Best regards, Stephen Porter |
#10
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See below.
"Stephen Porter" wrote in message om... Hi again, Thanks for the response. I appreciate your help in analyzing this, especially since it's pretty clear that I'm missing some basic concepts here. I DO understand the differentiation between "domains" and "workgroups," though. If there is NO requirement for the XP to log onto the domain then the problem lies elsewhere. Here are the answers to the questions you ask. - Run ipconfig.exe /all. Are the IP address details compatible with your WinNT machine? Can you ping the server? The server's IP address is fixed: 192.0.0.180/255.255.255.0. This address and sub-net doesn't seem to fit into any of the IP addresses on any of the workstations. The XP machine CANNOT ping the server. Neither can any of the other workstations. The XP machine's IP: 169.254.42.244/255.255.0.0 All the other workstations that I have tried have similar IP's: 169.254.105.162; 169.254.42.244; 169.254.105.162. All these have the same sub-net address: 255.255.255.0. Your addresses indicate that the XP machines are using DHCP and that they were unable to locate a DHCP server. Do you have one? Why don't you set fixed addresses while testing, e.g. 192.0.0.181, 192.0.0.182? By the way, "255.255.255.0" is not and address; it is called the "subnet mask". When set to "255.255.255.0" then your workstations may have addresses in the range of 192.0.0.1 to 192.0.0.254. I'm not clear on the concept of subnet's but apparently all the various workgroup computers are on a different subnet than the server. And none of them can ping the server. All of them can also "see" and access the shares on the server and the server can likewise see all of the workstations EXCEPT the XP machine. The XP machine can also "see" and access the shares on any of the other workstations. So it's just the server and the XP machine that have the incompatibility as far as shares go. If you can access any shares with your current address scheme then it is because you're using some other protocol on top of TCP/IP. I don't think it's a good idea to use two different protocols. I was tempted to change the subnet and maybe the IP address on the server, but the last thing I can afford to happen is to block or break the current connection that all the other workstations have to the server, so I'll wait until I'm more certain of what to do. The server has both TCP/IP and NETBEUI bound to the NIC and all the workstations do also. I noticed that this protocol is not available in the XP dialogs, but there is an "NW Link NETBIOS" protocol bound to the NIC in the XP box. I don't know if this is XP's version of NETBEUI, or whether it's part of the problem. It seems you have three protocols: - TCP/IP - NetBEUI - Netware Not exactly a clean, transparent network . . . - Accounts. Does your local WinXP account/password have an identical account defined on your WinNT machine? Yes. I've set up several accounts on the XP machine that match the user accounts on the server exactly and tested each one. - Firewall: Is your WinXP firewall turned off? Is the firewall that is bundled with your virus scanner turned off? Yes. No firewalls are active. - Share. What do you get when you type this command: net use x: \\YourServer\YourShare "The network path was not found." I also did a little research in "Windows XP Inside Out" and came up with the following, which might be germane to this problem: "NetBEUI. This protocol (short for NetBIOS Extended User Interface) is available as an unsupported option in Windows XP. It was originally developed for use on small networks running Windows 3.x NetBEUI can cause performance problems on some networks and should only be used when an exiting network configuration requires it. In most cases IPX/SPX is a better choice." .. . . and TCP/IP is a better choice again unless you run a Novell network. I'm in over my head on this, but as I mentioned, the protocols bound to the NIC on the server are NetBEUI *and* TCP/IP. So I'm not sure whether this might be the problem or not. It seems that all the other computers have the same sub-net-not- matching problem and they are all able to access server shares, and NOT able to ping the server, so the missing NetBEUI seems to be a the only thing missing. Thanks again for following this. I'm going to try and hit a few books tonight and learn more about sub-nets. I'm not sure why the server has an assigned IP and why the sub-net is different, but as I mentioned, I don't want to change that unless I'm sure I won't undo something that is working. Best regards, Stephen Porter I suggest you do this: 1. Set up one workstation with the correct IP parameters. 2. Test it. 3. Disable all protocols other than TCP on the server. 4. Test your workstation again. 5. Fix up the other workstations. |
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