IDE Connections Cable Select/Master/Slave

I have been trying to help a friend who has just bought a Dell computer with
(apparently) one IDE header which support 80 wires, while the other supports
only the standard 40 wires.
He has bought another identical ATA 133 disk to complement the one that came
with the computer.
He found that one hard disk was very slow.
Without knowing at the time that one of the headers supported 80 wires, I
advised him that as a principle he should put the disks on separate ribbons.
This he did and all was OK, but some subsequent problems have arisen which I
won't go into.
Dell states that disks s/b attached to the 80 wired ribbon, and slower
peripherals to the standard ribbon.
Could someone please explain to me what the various arguments and
configuration are, or where I can find the info.
Also, what are the arguments for/against Cable Select and Master/Slave
configurations, AND does it matter which connections on the ribbons are
used.
Help would be appreciated so that I can pass on: my friend has already
bought the wrong IDE ribbon to replace one that was too short and has to go
back to Maplins on Monday for a swap.
Please, someone help.
Thanks.

I don't understand 40 or 80 IDE header support. The are both 40 pin
and usable in any 40 pin IDE, I use all 80wire allowing the PC to
utalize ATA 133 through bios if it is capable. As for as master and
slave I always use this and also put the master at the end of the
ribbion. Ribbion 1 is where I would put both HD's and 2 would be
my CD and Burner.
Hope this helps.

"ATK" wrote:

I have been trying to help a friend who has just bought a Dell computer with
(apparently) one IDE header which support 80 wires, while the other supports
only the standard 40 wires.
He has bought another identical ATA 133 disk to complement the one that came
with the computer.
He found that one hard disk was very slow.
Without knowing at the time that one of the headers supported 80 wires, I
advised him that as a principle he should put the disks on separate ribbons.
This he did and all was OK, but some subsequent problems have arisen which I
won't go into.
Dell states that disks s/b attached to the 80 wired ribbon, and slower
peripherals to the standard ribbon.
Could someone please explain to me what the various arguments and
configuration are, or where I can find the info.
Also, what are the arguments for/against Cable Select and Master/Slave
configurations, AND does it matter which connections on the ribbons are
used.
Help would be appreciated so that I can pass on: my friend has already
bought the wrong IDE ribbon to replace one that was too short and has to go
back to Maplins on Monday for a swap.
Please, someone help.
Thanks.

The 80 pin cable is required for to utilize the speed of the higher speed
drives like ATA 100 and ATA133. All the 80 pin cables supports use of Cable
Select (CS). Most of the 40 pin cables did not.

Typically in the old days with 40 pin cables, some recommended using the
Master on the middle and the slave on the end - Either way worked but my
recommendation was using the last connector if only one device was
installed.

For the 80 pin cable, the connectors are color coded - The last connector is
the master drive and the middle the slave - This is a must if using Cable
Select. It is also recommended if using Slave/Master. Furthermore, it is
recommended that both drives use the same type of selection (i.e - one CS
use CS for the other too).

Typically, I would suggest using cable 1 for Hard Drives and Cable two for
DVD, CDROM, ZIP drives etc.
Sometimes you had to move stuff around a little to make everything work.


--
Jon Hildrum
DTS MVP

www.hildrum.com
"ATK" wrote in message
...
I have been trying to help a friend who has just bought a Dell computer
with
(apparently) one IDE header which support 80 wires, while the other
supports
only the standard 40 wires.
He has bought another identical ATA 133 disk to complement the one that
came
with the computer.
He found that one hard disk was very slow.
Without knowing at the time that one of the headers supported 80 wires, I
advised him that as a principle he should put the disks on separate
ribbons.
This he did and all was OK, but some subsequent problems have arisen which
I
won't go into.
Dell states that disks s/b attached to the 80 wired ribbon, and slower
peripherals to the standard ribbon.
Could someone please explain to me what the various arguments and
configuration are, or where I can find the info.
Also, what are the arguments for/against Cable Select and Master/Slave
configurations, AND does it matter which connections on the ribbons are
used.
Help would be appreciated so that I can pass on: my friend has already
bought the wrong IDE ribbon to replace one that was too short and has to
go
back to Maplins on Monday for a swap.
Please, someone help.
Thanks.

80-core cable vs 40-core is irrelevant to the issue. You should use 80-core
ribbon cable for high performance devices.

You must have both devices on one cable as either CS or Master/Slave. M/S
and CS cables are different, and must match the configuration you choose.
Although it is possible to have one IDE controller as M/S and the other as
CS, I would recommend only using one or the other in any particular machine:
otherwise things get confusing.

For CS, configure both devices as CS. The connector you use determines which
device is master and which is slave, and you must get it the right way
around.

For M/S, configure the drivers as Master and Slave respectively, and use
whatever connectors you want (based usually on cable layout).

I would go with the Dell recommendation of similar devices sharing the same
controller, where possible.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"ATK" wrote in message
...
I have been trying to help a friend who has just bought a Dell computer
with
(apparently) one IDE header which support 80 wires, while the other
supports
only the standard 40 wires.
He has bought another identical ATA 133 disk to complement the one that
came
with the computer.
He found that one hard disk was very slow.
Without knowing at the time that one of the headers supported 80 wires, I
advised him that as a principle he should put the disks on separate
ribbons.
This he did and all was OK, but some subsequent problems have arisen which
I
won't go into.
Dell states that disks s/b attached to the 80 wired ribbon, and slower
peripherals to the standard ribbon.
Could someone please explain to me what the various arguments and
configuration are, or where I can find the info.
Also, what are the arguments for/against Cable Select and Master/Slave
configurations, AND does it matter which connections on the ribbons are
used.
Help would be appreciated so that I can pass on: my friend has already
bought the wrong IDE ribbon to replace one that was too short and has to
go
back to Maplins on Monday for a swap.
Please, someone help.
Thanks.

80 wire ide ribbon cable works on any ide port. It matters not whether the
ide port is ATA 66/100/133 capable. The 40 additional wires serve the
purpose of reducing or eliminating stray RF inside the PC case. This stray
RF can affect the ide communications on the ribbon cable. These same 40
additional wires do not connect to the ide port itself.

Use the master/slave configuration only to avoid confusion. Master goes on
the end of the ribbon cable per ATA spec.
"ATK" wrote in message
...
I have been trying to help a friend who has just bought a Dell computer
with
(apparently) one IDE header which support 80 wires, while the other
supports
only the standard 40 wires.
He has bought another identical ATA 133 disk to complement the one that
came
with the computer.
He found that one hard disk was very slow.
Without knowing at the time that one of the headers supported 80 wires, I
advised him that as a principle he should put the disks on separate
ribbons.
This he did and all was OK, but some subsequent problems have arisen which
I
won't go into.
Dell states that disks s/b attached to the 80 wired ribbon, and slower
peripherals to the standard ribbon.
Could someone please explain to me what the various arguments and
configuration are, or where I can find the info.
Also, what are the arguments for/against Cable Select and Master/Slave
configurations, AND does it matter which connections on the ribbons are
used.
Help would be appreciated so that I can pass on: my friend has already
bought the wrong IDE ribbon to replace one that was too short and has to
go
back to Maplins on Monday for a swap.
Please, someone help.
Thanks.

Thanks for the interest shown. I think some respondents will have learned
from this thread. While I was aware that the additional wires weren't
connected, I certainly wasn't aware of their function, so that is specific
gained knowledge. This is why I referred initially to 80 wires (not 80
pins).
Specific to the Dell MB, unless the Secondary header is not full spec., I
cannot logically see any sense in putting both fast peripherals on the same
ribbon. Surely it cannot fail to cause contention - (say) heavy file copying
between HDs.
I have always tried to put HDs on separate ribbons. I have never used CS and
never will now.
Further, generally speaking, access to newsgroups this past few years have
tended to endorse the separation of the faster peripherals as good practice,
although there will always be some exceptions.
Has there been a major change I have missed, I wonder?

Lil' Dave wrote:
80 wire ide ribbon cable works on any ide port. It matters not
whether the ide port is ATA 66/100/133 capable. The 40 additional
wires serve the purpose of reducing or eliminating stray RF inside
the PC case. This stray RF can affect the ide communications on the
ribbon cable. These same 40 additional wires do not connect to the
ide port itself.

Use the master/slave configuration only to avoid confusion. Master
goes on the end of the ribbon cable per ATA spec.
"ATK" wrote in message
...
I have been trying to help a friend who has just bought a Dell
computer with (apparently) one IDE header which support 80 wires,
while the other supports only the standard 40 wires.
He has bought another identical ATA 133 disk to complement the one
that came with the computer.
He found that one hard disk was very slow.
Without knowing at the time that one of the headers supported 80
wires, I advised him that as a principle he should put the disks on
separate ribbons. This he did and all was OK, but some subsequent
problems have arisen which I won't go into.
Dell states that disks s/b attached to the 80 wired ribbon, and
slower peripherals to the standard ribbon.
Could someone please explain to me what the various arguments and
configuration are, or where I can find the info.
Also, what are the arguments for/against Cable Select and
Master/Slave configurations, AND does it matter which connections on
the ribbons are used.
Help would be appreciated so that I can pass on: my friend has
already bought the wrong IDE ribbon to replace one that was too
short and has to go back to Maplins on Monday for a swap.
Please, someone help.
Thanks.

Further, generally speaking, access to newsgroups this past few years have
tended to endorse the separation of the faster peripherals as good practice,
although there will always be some exceptions.
Has there been a major change I have missed, I wonder?

Some years ago, it was important to have the harddrives on the same cables
since having something like a CDROM and a harddrive on the same cable would
slow down the harddrive.

For several years that has not been the issue it once was. (newer hardware
and controllers). I still recommend using harddrives on one cable and other
devices like DVD and/or CDROMs on the other cable. However, depending on
what your doing there may be better ways.
--
Jon Hildrum
DTS MVP

www.hildrum.com
"ATK" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the interest shown. I think some respondents will have learned
from this thread. While I was aware that the additional wires weren't
connected, I certainly wasn't aware of their function, so that is specific
gained knowledge. This is why I referred initially to 80 wires (not 80
pins).
Specific to the Dell MB, unless the Secondary header is not full spec., I
cannot logically see any sense in putting both fast peripherals on the
same
ribbon. Surely it cannot fail to cause contention - (say) heavy file
copying
between HDs.
I have always tried to put HDs on separate ribbons. I have never used CS
and
never will now.
Further, generally speaking, access to newsgroups this past few years have
tended to endorse the separation of the faster peripherals as good
practice,
although there will always be some exceptions.
Has there been a major change I have missed, I wonder?

Lil' Dave wrote:
80 wire ide ribbon cable works on any ide port. It matters not
whether the ide port is ATA 66/100/133 capable. The 40 additional
wires serve the purpose of reducing or eliminating stray RF inside
the PC case. This stray RF can affect the ide communications on the
ribbon cable. These same 40 additional wires do not connect to the
ide port itself.

Use the master/slave configuration only to avoid confusion. Master
goes on the end of the ribbon cable per ATA spec.
"ATK" wrote in message
...
I have been trying to help a friend who has just bought a Dell
computer with (apparently) one IDE header which support 80 wires,
while the other supports only the standard 40 wires.
He has bought another identical ATA 133 disk to complement the one
that came with the computer.
He found that one hard disk was very slow.
Without knowing at the time that one of the headers supported 80
wires, I advised him that as a principle he should put the disks on
separate ribbons. This he did and all was OK, but some subsequent
problems have arisen which I won't go into.
Dell states that disks s/b attached to the 80 wired ribbon, and
slower peripherals to the standard ribbon.
Could someone please explain to me what the various arguments and
configuration are, or where I can find the info.
Also, what are the arguments for/against Cable Select and
Master/Slave configurations, AND does it matter which connections on
the ribbons are used.
Help would be appreciated so that I can pass on: my friend has
already bought the wrong IDE ribbon to replace one that was too
short and has to go back to Maplins on Monday for a swap.
Please, someone help.
Thanks.

Like everything else, it depends on what you're doing with them (HDs and/or
CD devices), and your normal usage of same. Jon hit the normal usage, but
it depends on yours specifically in your case for you.
"ATK" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the interest shown. I think some respondents will have learned
from this thread. While I was aware that the additional wires weren't
connected, I certainly wasn't aware of their function, so that is specific
gained knowledge. This is why I referred initially to 80 wires (not 80
pins).
Specific to the Dell MB, unless the Secondary header is not full spec., I
cannot logically see any sense in putting both fast peripherals on the
same
ribbon. Surely it cannot fail to cause contention - (say) heavy file
copying
between HDs.
I have always tried to put HDs on separate ribbons. I have never used CS
and
never will now.
Further, generally speaking, access to newsgroups this past few years have
tended to endorse the separation of the faster peripherals as good
practice,
although there will always be some exceptions.
Has there been a major change I have missed, I wonder?

Lil' Dave wrote:
80 wire ide ribbon cable works on any ide port. It matters not
whether the ide port is ATA 66/100/133 capable. The 40 additional
wires serve the purpose of reducing or eliminating stray RF inside
the PC case. This stray RF can affect the ide communications on the
ribbon cable. These same 40 additional wires do not connect to the
ide port itself.

Use the master/slave configuration only to avoid confusion. Master
goes on the end of the ribbon cable per ATA spec.
"ATK" wrote in message
...
I have been trying to help a friend who has just bought a Dell
computer with (apparently) one IDE header which support 80 wires,
while the other supports only the standard 40 wires.
He has bought another identical ATA 133 disk to complement the one
that came with the computer.
He found that one hard disk was very slow.
Without knowing at the time that one of the headers supported 80
wires, I advised him that as a principle he should put the disks on
separate ribbons. This he did and all was OK, but some subsequent
problems have arisen which I won't go into.
Dell states that disks s/b attached to the 80 wired ribbon, and
slower peripherals to the standard ribbon.
Could someone please explain to me what the various arguments and
configuration are, or where I can find the info.
Also, what are the arguments for/against Cable Select and
Master/Slave configurations, AND does it matter which connections on
the ribbons are used.
Help would be appreciated so that I can pass on: my friend has
already bought the wrong IDE ribbon to replace one that was too
short and has to go back to Maplins on Monday for a swap.
Please, someone help.
Thanks.