@#$%! Toolbars

"Just lucky, I guess"


--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Shane" wrote in message
...
Maybe, but I'd be surprised if I hadn't over three years of it.


Shane

"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
"when I was using NAV I didn't have problems as a consequence of running
SR" - possibly because you never attempted to use SR back across a
LiveUpdate point, which broke the Symantec registry entries?


--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Shane" wrote in message
...
Quite, Noel.

And yet - on an unrepresentative note, when I was using NAV I didn't
have
problems as a consequence of running SR.

Meanwhile, bear in mind that the advice to disable SR before a scan is
given
by most of the AV companies.


Shane


"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
Figgs
Your AV, and mine work well after a System Restore for one very good
reason - it's NOT Norton! - I suspect that JAD is using the 'trasher
of
systems' that Symantec continue to peddle as being fit-for-use in ME.

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to
NG's

"Heather" wrote in message
...
snip
"JAD" wrote in message
...
snip
Tell me, how does your AV work after a system
restore?

My antivirus works just fine after a System Restore......why
wouldn't
it?
Remember what I said above.......I practice safe hex and the last
virus
I
got was Happy99 I believe......yes, 1999, 5 or 6 years ago when
Vecna
released that one. Due to using that blasted Norton as an AV.

Gabriele
May I suggest that you learn a little about the OS which you claim to know
so well - and its capabilities, before proclaiming to the world your
ineptitude.

Mike has NEVER claimed that System Restore is a 'cure-all' - far from it,
he's pointed out its failings to MS (with the result that the System Restore
in XP is at least a little more user-friendly), and constantly reminds
people in these newsgroups that SR is NOT a backup utility, but merely a
'get me out of a hole' assist.

If you have any reason to think otherwise, then I suggest that you re-read
his posts - starting with the ones he made in the Beta newsgroups 5 years
ago!

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Gabriele Neukam" wrote in message
...
On that special day, Shane, ) said...

System Restore is valuable because backups are rarely made on a daily
basis.
Reasonably often on disinfecting the system, some component is found not
to
work anymore. If System Restore is still available it may provide the
opportunity to restore to before infection but since the last backup
(assuming one has been made).

If you want to give us the idea that system restore is the ultimate
solution to a screwed up computer, you are misunderstanding something.
It cannot be a do-it-all wonder. It can replace some files with older
versions, and replace messed up registries, and that's it.

I myself deactivated my system restore in Windows ME in late 2000, and
guess what. My machine never was screwed up, didn't get infected by any
worm although there were dozens if not hundreds in the mail box, and
hasn't yet been trojanized or hijacked.

Why? I don't run Outlook Express for fetching mail, but T-Online eMail,
which is an extremely "dumb" mail program, and cannot be coaxed to "run"
"wavefiles" because of a malformed attachment declaration. And I surf
with opera or Mozilla, but never with an Internet Explorer.

So my system is free of any given malware, and this WITHOUT system
restore. Someone who cannot keep his computer clean because of too basic
knowledge about how to operate it, will probably also be unable to tell
apart which restore point might be safe, and which not. And if the
malware has planted itself into the _RESTORE folder, it might restore
itself into activity, exactly what you DON'T want to happen.

System restore might work ok in exactly one case - you install a new
driver or a botched Norton, and after restart, your machine gives a lot
of errors. Restoring *immediately* after the screw up, can fix this.

But even then, you have to be able to at least start *into* Windows. If
all you get is a blue screen and a "Windows will now shut down", your
wonderful system restore is moot. Because it can only be run from
*inside* Windows.

Acronis True Image, PowerQuest Drive Image and Norton Ghost on the other
hand, can be run from *outside* Windows. This is what JAD was referring
to, when he spoke of a BACK UP.

Got it?


Gabriele Neukam




--
Ah, Information. A good, too valuable these days, to give it away, just
so, at no cost.

On that special day, Noel Paton, )
said...


May I suggest that you learn a little about the OS which you claim to know
so well - and its capabilities, before proclaiming to the world your
ineptitude.

So you are full of knowledge about Windows ME; more than me, who at
times cleans the registry by hand and has made the .pif file attribute
visible in order to avoid nasty worms which hide behind a double file
ending like "document.doc.pif"? You have been using MS-Dos before the
version 4.01? Well, *then* you are experienced.

If you have any reason to think otherwise, then I suggest that you re-read
his posts - starting with the ones he made in the Beta newsgroups 5 years
ago!

(Full quote of my posting snipped)

Alright. And would you, please desist from top posting and full quoting?
Both are against the most common rules of the Usenet.


Gabriele Neukam




--
Ah, Information. A good, too valuable these days, to give it away, just
so, at no cost.

I'm interested in a couple of things....this 'hole' what exactly is
it? That a back up would not fix?
If you have backed up why would you worry about SR? or use it, or let
it suck up a pretty good chunk of HD space?
If you are not using a back up, why are you worrying about your data
AFTER a catastrophe? then scramble for SR? Your data was not important
anyway, erase or format and reinstall.

None of what your saying or mike makes a lick of sense, the only sense
it makes is the 'FALSE sense of security' and you need not backup.
Nor in the process of restoring, it ever mentions the difference
between the two.

Don't drop XP into it......entirely a different apple cart, MANY
other system repair features.

I bumped into Bill on the street, even though he signed my
certificate, he didn't recognize me. Much like the autographed picture
of Mike on your wall, he knows not ,of him.

Little League MVP Coach 2000- 2004


:Other unimpressive Brag Lines snipped:


"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
Gabriele
May I suggest that you learn a little about the OS which you claim
to know
so well - and its capabilities, before proclaiming to the world your
ineptitude.

Mike has NEVER claimed that System Restore is a 'cure-all' - far
from it,
he's pointed out its failings to MS (with the result that the System
Restore
in XP is at least a little more user-friendly), and constantly
reminds
people in these newsgroups that SR is NOT a backup utility, but
merely a
'get me out of a hole' assist.

If you have any reason to think otherwise, then I suggest that you
re-read
his posts - starting with the ones he made in the Beta newsgroups 5
years
ago!

--

Inline


--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Gabriele Neukam" wrote in message
...
On that special day, Noel Paton, )
said...


May I suggest that you learn a little about the OS which you claim to
know
so well - and its capabilities, before proclaiming to the world your
ineptitude.

So you are full of knowledge about Windows ME; more than me, who at
times cleans the registry by hand and has made the .pif file attribute
visible in order to avoid nasty worms which hide behind a double file
ending like "document.doc.pif"? You have been using MS-Dos before the
version 4.01? Well, *then* you are experienced.

Let me put it this way - I programmed in PC-DOS

Programming experience is irrelevant - it's xperience with the OS in
question, and its capabilities in real-life that matter - and fo rthat you
will have a VERY long way to go, to beat Mike (I admit that I''d probably
fall by the wayside, as I have a 'real' job to do most of the time)



If you have any reason to think otherwise, then I suggest that you
re-read
his posts - starting with the ones he made in the Beta newsgroups 5 years
ago!

(Full quote of my posting snipped)

Alright. And would you, please desist from top posting and full quoting?
Both are against the most common rules of the Usenet.

I hate to disillusion you - but the primary NG to which this thread is
posted is NOT part of Usenet - never has been, and never will be! It's part
of Microsoft's PRIVATE newsserver group, which they allow Usenet servers to
replicate -
In the MS newsgroups, it's common practice to allow any form of posting
without comment, so long as the poster is courteous - may I suggest that you
learn the whys-and-wherefores of the primary server YOU are posting to?
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;[ln];newswhelp


In short - you have (again) shown exactly how little you know!



Gabriele Neukam




--
Ah, Information. A good, too valuable these days, to give it away, just
so, at no cost.

You still don't get it, do you? System Restore is not, never has been, and
never will be a replacement for a proper backup - and was never designed as
such.
What it DOES do, is enable the vast majority of users - who never make
backups - to get back to a point where their system is at least working
sufficiently well to copy their data off to another place, while they wonder
about where to take their PC to get fixed, or even manage to fix it
themselves.

SR is an invaluable tool - even for those who DO make backups - because it
allows the user to roll-back through certain errors induced either by bad
luck, bad programming, or bad user interaction, and get the system running
again.

Backups DON'T do that - unless you are talking about imaging, in which case
you quite possibly have enough knowledge to be able to fix the system
without recourse to System Restore anyhow.

Even the guys who wrote Win XP use System Restore on a regular basis -
because it's the most efficient way of handling a large number of problems.

The fact that you choose to disable it is merely your problem, not that of
others

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"JAD" wrote in message
...
I'm interested in a couple of things....this 'hole' what exactly is
it? That a back up would not fix?
If you have backed up why would you worry about SR? or use it, or let
it suck up a pretty good chunk of HD space?
If you are not using a back up, why are you worrying about your data
AFTER a catastrophe? then scramble for SR? Your data was not important
anyway, erase or format and reinstall.

None of what your saying or mike makes a lick of sense, the only sense
it makes is the 'FALSE sense of security' and you need not backup.
Nor in the process of restoring, it ever mentions the difference
between the two.

Don't drop XP into it......entirely a different apple cart, MANY
other system repair features.

I bumped into Bill on the street, even though he signed my
certificate, he didn't recognize me. Much like the autographed picture
of Mike on your wall, he knows not ,of him.

Little League MVP Coach 2000- 2004


:Other unimpressive Brag Lines snipped:


"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
Gabriele
May I suggest that you learn a little about the OS which you claim
to know
so well - and its capabilities, before proclaiming to the world your
ineptitude.

Mike has NEVER claimed that System Restore is a 'cure-all' - far
from it,
he's pointed out its failings to MS (with the result that the System
Restore
in XP is at least a little more user-friendly), and constantly
reminds
people in these newsgroups that SR is NOT a backup utility, but
merely a
'get me out of a hole' assist.

If you have any reason to think otherwise, then I suggest that you
re-read
his posts - starting with the ones he made in the Beta newsgroups 5
years
ago!

--

Noel, 3/4 of the people that are using ME, haven't even applied the
restore patch, and restore has been dead since (whatever the date was
2001) and that's how long the 'problem' virii, system file, whatever,
has existed. Just drop the SR thing and preach the proper way to back
up. Roll back? no no no such thing in ME. lets split some more
hairs... imaging- back up -ghosting -tape - CD-ROM -DVDrom and
whatever else you can think up, is what I mean by backup. as long as
you don't include SR.

SR works sometimes, this is what you will rely on?


"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
You still don't get it, do you? System Restore is not, never has
been, and
never will be a replacement for a proper backup - and was never
designed as
such.
What it DOES do, is enable the vast majority of users - who never
make
backups - to get back to a point where their system is at least
working
sufficiently well to copy their data off to another place, while
they wonder
about where to take their PC to get fixed, or even manage to fix it
themselves.

SR is an invaluable tool - even for those who DO make backups -
because it
allows the user to roll-back through certain errors induced either
by bad
luck, bad programming, or bad user interaction, and get the system
running
again.

Backups DON'T do that - unless you are talking about imaging, in
which case
you quite possibly have enough knowledge to be able to fix the
system
without recourse to System Restore anyhow.

Even the guys who wrote Win XP use System Restore on a regular
basis -
because it's the most efficient way of handling a large number of
problems.

The fact that you choose to disable it is merely your problem, not
that of
others

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to
NG's

"JAD" wrote in message
...
I'm interested in a couple of things....this 'hole' what exactly
is
it? That a back up would not fix?
If you have backed up why would you worry about SR? or use it, or
let
it suck up a pretty good chunk of HD space?
If you are not using a back up, why are you worrying about your
data
AFTER a catastrophe? then scramble for SR? Your data was not
important
anyway, erase or format and reinstall.

None of what your saying or mike makes a lick of sense, the only
sense
it makes is the 'FALSE sense of security' and you need not
backup.
Nor in the process of restoring, it ever mentions the difference
between the two.

Don't drop XP into it......entirely a different apple cart, MANY
other system repair features.

I bumped into Bill on the street, even though he signed my
certificate, he didn't recognize me. Much like the autographed
picture
of Mike on your wall, he knows not ,of him.

Little League MVP Coach 2000- 2004


:Other unimpressive Brag Lines snipped:


"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
Gabriele
May I suggest that you learn a little about the OS which you
claim
to know
so well - and its capabilities, before proclaiming to the world
your
ineptitude.

Mike has NEVER claimed that System Restore is a 'cure-all' - far
from it,
he's pointed out its failings to MS (with the result that the
System
Restore
in XP is at least a little more user-friendly), and constantly
reminds
people in these newsgroups that SR is NOT a backup utility, but
merely a
'get me out of a hole' assist.

If you have any reason to think otherwise, then I suggest that
you
re-read
his posts - starting with the ones he made in the Beta newsgroups
5
years
ago!

--

Same goes for a system infected with for instance "CoolWeb"; I have
seen it return into the system from restore poitns

The latest CWS variant reinfests the system from a phantom Service
installed on XP systems with an associated executable and/or .dll
files that are located in Temp directories on XP and 9x systems.

By THOROUGHLY scanning the system with a reliable AV tool, not an AV
program, ( Sysclean by Trendmicro will detect infested restore
points ) and a reputable spyware program ( AdAwareSE or Spybot ),
one can determine EXACTLY which points are infested.
WHY would one have to lose all restore points ? You're supposition
is incorrect.


MowGreen [MVP]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============

again with specific scenarios........

"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote in message
...
Same goes for a system infected with for instance "CoolWeb"; I
have
seen it return into the system from restore poitns

The latest CWS variant reinfests the system from a phantom Service
installed on XP systems with an associated executable and/or .dll
files that are located in Temp directories on XP and 9x systems.

By THOROUGHLY scanning the system with a reliable AV tool, not an AV
program, ( Sysclean by Trendmicro will detect infested restore
points ) and a reputable spyware program ( AdAwareSE or Spybot ),
one can determine EXACTLY which points are infested.
WHY would one have to lose all restore points ? You're supposition
is incorrect.


MowGreen [MVP]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============

Shoot....I go away all day and look at the mess you guys are into with these
idiots!! Must all be from those other bottom posting ng's.

Cheers.....Figgs

"Noel Paton" wrote in message
...
Figgs
Your AV, and mine work well after a System Restore for one very good
reason - it's NOT Norton! - I suspect that JAD is using the 'trasher of
systems' that Symantec continue to peddle as being fit-for-use in ME.

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Heather" wrote in message
...
snip
"JAD" wrote in message
...
snip
Tell me, how does your AV work after a system
restore?

My antivirus works just fine after a System Restore......why wouldn't
it?
Remember what I said above.......I practice safe hex and the last virus
I
got was Happy99 I believe......yes, 1999, 5 or 6 years ago when Vecna
released that one. Due to using that blasted Norton as an AV.