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250 GB drives - please help



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 15th 07, 03:38 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.win98.disks.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
98 Guy
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Posts: 2,951
Default 250 GB drives - please help

Alan Peake wrote:

Did you actually write data to the entire disk? I've seen it
reported that some people have seemingly formatted large disks
but the data was corrupted when they went over the 137GB mark.


THAT IS UNRELATED TO THE USE OF FDISK AND FORMAT !!!!!

For those of you that are confused (like Alan) read this:

(1) You can use the DOS tools FDISK.EXE (version May 2000) and
FORMAT.COM (April 1999) to prepare a large hard drive for use with
windows-98. By large hard drive, I mean anything larger than 128 gb,
including 160 gb and 250 gb, and *probably* 320, 400, and 500 gb as
well. There is some indication that FDISK and/or FORMAT will not work
on drives over 500 gb.

(2) Windows-98 normally uses it's default driver (ESDI_506.PDR) to
perform protected-mode, "32-bit" access to all hard drives connected
to a system's IDE ports. That driver has a known fault (that I have
personally never experienced or tested) that makes it incompatible
with hard drives larger than 128 gb. There are several remedies for
this situation, such as (a) two third-party (non-Microsoft)
replacement versions of ESDI_506.PDR, (b) the use of the "Intel
Application Accelerator (for systems with certain Intel chipsets), (c)
the use of an add-on (PCI) hard drive controller card (that comes with
it's own driver), (d) the use of a SATA hard drive (if the system
motherboard has SATA ports), and (e) the use of an external hard drive
(USB or Firewire).

Any more questions?
  #12  
Old November 15th 07, 03:53 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.win98.disks.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
98 Guy
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Posts: 2,951
Default 250 GB drives - please help

MEB wrote:

It may be time [or rather past time] to think about using the
hard drive manufacturer tools rather than MS fdisk and format
for ANY drive manipulation.


As I've posted in the past, I favor the use of manufacturer-provided
tools because they usually allow a drive to be FAT-32 formatted with
non-standard cluster sizes. But for most people it's not necessary -
FDISK and Format will suffice.

The manufacturers newest tools all now have NTFS abilities built-in
[some more than others - of particular interest to dual booters],


I think there's a good case to be made to install Win-2k or XP on a
drive formatted as FAT-32 as opposed to NTFS. Even if the system is
not dual-boot. The advantages of NTFS are largely lost on most
single-user or SOHO users. It is easier (and cheaper) to diagnose,
fix, detect and remove malware on a FAT-32 drive than it is for NTFS.
The reliability and performance of FAT-32 is highly under-rated. And
if the system is dual-boot, then both OS's have access to all files on
all volumes.

Want to use larger drives?
Then consider: a newer mother board [or a used board that supports
larger drives];


For those that may not know, any motherboard that has a Pentium-4 or
Celeron CPU (technically, socket 478 or newer) will have the necessary
support for large hard drives, and in some (many?) cases a BIOS update
is available for motherboards with Pentium 3 CPU's.
  #13  
Old November 15th 07, 05:36 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.win98.disks.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Alan Peake
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Posts: 4
Default 250 GB drives - please help


That is another example of Meekro$oft dis-information.

The following is part of a post I made back in February. READ IT and
then tell me what you think about the MS statement you quoted above.


Did you actually write data to the entire disk? I've seen it reported
that some people have seemingly formatted large disks but the data was
corrupted when they went over the 137GB mark. I partitioned and
formatted a 160GB disk with the FDISK and FORMAT that is on my W98SE
boot disk but apparently, I will still have the data corruption problem
if I try to go beyond 137GB.
alan

  #14  
Old November 15th 07, 06:30 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.win98.disks.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
MEB[_2_]
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,626
Default 250 GB drives - please help

I'll try this again,,,
I REALLY suggest you and others CAREFULLY read Microsoft's explanations,
articles, and KBs on the 5+ NTFS/Fat filing aspects.
The NATIVE filing system layer [always running whether being used or not]
is NTFS. Fat [fastfat.sys] is just another driver *added ON TOP of* [not
*used instead of*] that NATIVE NTFS layer. Take particular note of
ATTRIBUTES used by/within the NTFS/FAT, and how files are ACCESSED and
STORED.... everything done in 5+ NT fat is run THROUGH the NTFS native layer
[and ALWAYS prepped for potential conversion to NTFS].....

I realize how difficult it is to divorce one's self from old DOS
ideas/facts, but the two types of filing systems are, now, completely
FOREIGN to each other [which I've been trying make people understand for a
few years now] ...

And that happens to be WHY I suggest the use of manufacturer tools [NT 5+
aware] or other new style NTFS aware tools, and NOT the old MS fdisk and
format [or old DOS/early NT tools] WHICH HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH THE
NEW FILING SYSTEMS, particularly if NTFS was used.

Read to BEGIN understanding XP's filing systems:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro...c13621675.mspx
Check ALL the other NT5+ stuff then;
Jump over to the WinHex forums and other like hard drive specific sites when
you think you've got it scoped out ... [bet you don't]]]]]


--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
________



  #15  
Old November 15th 07, 08:10 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.win98.disks.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Rod Speed
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 39
Default 250 GB drives - please help

98 Guy wrote
MEB wrote


It may be time [or rather past time] to think about
using the hard drive manufacturer tools rather than
MS fdisk and format for ANY drive manipulation.


As I've posted in the past, I favor the use of manufacturer-provided
tools because they usually allow a drive to be FAT-32 formatted
with non-standard cluster sizes.


Which have their own downsides. And thats a stupid way to
describe them, its better to describe them as non Microsoft tools.

But for most people it's not necessary - FDISK and Format will suffice.


The manufacturers newest tools all now have NTFS abilities built-in
[some more than others - of particular interest to dual booters],


I think there's a good case to be made to install Win-2k or
XP on a drive formatted as FAT-32 as opposed to NTFS.


You're wrong.

Even if the system is not dual-boot. The advantages of
NTFS are largely lost on most single-user or SOHO users.


Wrong when they cant even write the large files that are now
so common with the systems used as PVRs and media players.

It is easier (and cheaper) to diagnose, fix, detect and
remove malware on a FAT-32 drive than it is for NTFS.


And proper backups are a MUCH better way to handle that stuff.

The reliability and performance of FAT-32 is highly under-rated.
And if the system is dual-boot, then both OS's have access to
all files on all volumes.


Only a fool bothers to dual boot 98 and XP.

Want to use larger drives?
Then consider: a newer mother board [or a used board that supports
larger drives];


For those that may not know, any motherboard that has a Pentium-4 or
Celeron CPU (technically, socket 478 or newer) will have the necessary
support for large hard drives, and in some (many?) cases a BIOS update
is available for motherboards with Pentium 3 CPU's.




  #16  
Old November 16th 07, 03:39 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.win98.disks.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
98 Guy
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 2,951
Default 250 GB drives - please help

Nim Rod spewed:

As I've posted in the past, I favor the use of manufacturer-
provided tools because they usually allow a drive to be FAT-32
formatted with non-standard cluster sizes.


Which have their own downsides.


Which you naturally won't tell us what they are, because you like to
make hit-and-run statements without backing them up.

And thats a stupid way to describe them, its better to describe
them as non Microsoft tools.


What - the world to you is defined based on Micro$oft?

Everything is either "MacroShaft" or "non-MacroShaft" ?

I think there's a good case to be made to install Win-2k
or XP on a drive formatted as FAT-32 as opposed to NTFS.


You're wrong.


Go ahead sparky - tell us why.

Even if the system is not dual-boot. The advantages of
NTFS are largely lost on most single-user or SOHO users.


Wrong when they cant even write the large files that are now
so common with the systems used as PVRs and media players.


Tell us how many files you have on your XP or Vista system that are
4 gb.

Are you aware that most multi-media software is capable of spanning
the 4 gb file limit when working on fat-32 drives?

Why don't you tell us how many USB memory sticks come formatted with
NTFS.

It is easier (and cheaper) to diagnose, fix, detect and
remove malware on a FAT-32 drive than it is for NTFS.


And proper backups are a MUCH better way to handle that
stuff.


Backup strategies are a separate issue.

Only a fool bothers to dual boot 98 and XP.


I see that no dual-booters here want to challenge that comment.
  #17  
Old November 16th 07, 10:40 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.win98.disks.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
MEB[_2_]
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,626
Default 250 GB drives - please help

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=46581
look/search for " 48bit "and " 137 " make sure you read the info related
to it.

http://www.msfn.org/board/?showtopic=84886
might be some other stuff you may want

Be aware that these are mostly unofficial fixes ...

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
________


"Alan Peake" wrote in message
...
|
|
| 98 Guy wrote:
|
| with hard drives larger than 128 gb. There are several remedies for
| this situation, such as (a) two third-party (non-Microsoft)
| replacement versions of ESDI_506.PDR,
| ..
|
| Any more questions?
|
| Yes Where do I get one of the above (particularly the free one!)? I
| tried google but no joy after an hour or so. Dial-up only here
| Alan
|



  #18  
Old November 16th 07, 05:06 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.win98.disks.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Alan Peake
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 4
Default 250 GB drives - please help



98 Guy wrote:

with hard drives larger than 128 gb. There are several remedies for
this situation, such as (a) two third-party (non-Microsoft)
replacement versions of ESDI_506.PDR,

...

Any more questions?


Yes Where do I get one of the above (particularly the free one!)? I
tried google but no joy after an hour or so. Dial-up only here
Alan

  #19  
Old December 20th 07, 09:16 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.disks.general,microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Jeffery
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 2
Default 250 GB drives - please help

Do you have or know where I can get a system disk from. I deleted win 95
uning the format hard drive. My computer is now telling me that a system
disk is nrrded.

"Eric Gisin" wrote:

"98 Guy" wrote in message ...

First, understand that there are 2 scandisk's. One is the DOS
scandisk (scandisk.exe) and the second is Windows scandisk
(scandskw.exe + diskmaint.dll). Then there is defrag (AKA windows
defrag).

The windows scandisk and defrag have problems when the number of
allocation units (AKA clusters) exceeds a certain number (I think it's
4 million but it could be 6 or 8 million). The windows ME versions of
scandisk and defrag have a higher limit (and most people recommend you
use them on your win-98 system for other reasons anyways).

Win 98 GUI scandisk and defrag are 16-bit, and limited to 16MB.
The FAT has to be resident, so the cluster limit is under 4M.
I don't know about Win ME. You could look up the MS KB article on these.
This topic was discussed 5 years ago, google groups has it.

The DOS version of scandisk (the one that sometimes runs at startup
when a bad shutdown was detected) actually doesn't have a limit from
my own tests, so it's quite robust in that regard.

The idiot (Rod) is claiming there is some other issue regarding large
hard drives and win-98, but he refuses to describe it.

The obvious problem is the MS IDE drive is not LBA-48,
so 128GB is a hard limit unless there is an alt driver available.

And by the way, you don't need PM to prepare a large hard drive for
win-98. What you need is simply the updated version of fdisk.exe (may
2000 I think). It will correctly partition a large drive (250 gb or
larger) and then you use format.com to format it.

Correct, or you could use freeDOS fdisk.

 




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