How can I get rid of 'Ramdrive' on startup disk?

Hello Shane. First of all, if you don't have anything relevant to
contribute, then why are you even in this newsgroup?

You actually think it is "Loony" that someone doesn't want or need
Ramdrive?? Where are you from? I would assume it is a place where everybody
has to think the same way or be cast out. I am sorry I don't think the same
way as you; good thing we don't have to interact much. Also, I guess this
place you are from does not allow people to have email addresses that are
spelled different from their name, that is strange. Where I come from people
are allowed to use any email address they want and it doesn't even have to
have the same spelling as their name. The place that I come from seems to
have more freedom than where you are from.

Keven



"Shane" wrote in message
...
Hi Mart.

Boy this one has put a smile on my face! Really, all that are left are the
loonies!

Shane

Mart wrote:
I'm not sure that you understand the purpose and function of the
Ramdrive used by the WinMe Startup disk, nor do I understand quite
why you think it an irritation.

... I have never used it and I never will.

Oh yes you have and do! - every time you run and use the Startup
disk!!
As the 1.4 Mb floppy Startup disk has only some 200kb or so of unused
space spare and it does not use (access) space on your hard drive -
it may be faulty, unformatted or not even installed! - it reserves
some 4 Mb of your RAM (32 Mb minimum requirement for WinMe!) as
'work-space' in which to actually load and run any/all of the
troubleshooting utilities supplied on the Startup disk. Not too sure
what you might be doing with the other available 28 Mb of RAM whilst
needing the Startup disk, so can't see why you are irritated.

Although slightly out of context, see also the 2nd paragraph under
'More Information' in :-
"Unable to Load Ramdrive.sys in Windows Millennium Edition"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/278620/en-us

I tried editing out all references to ramdrive from the
autoexec.bat file but then it wouldnt boot.

Hardly surprising then!

Mart


"Kevin J. Nielsen" wrote in message
...
I would love to make a Millennium startup disk without the Ramdrive.
This is so irritating, I have never used it and I never will.

I tried editing out all references to ramdrive from the
autoexec.bat file but then it wouldnt boot.

Does anyone know how to get rid of Ramdrive from the startup disk
while keeping the boot disk functional?

Thank You

Keven Nielsen

"Mike M" wrote in
:

Oh yes you have and do! - every time you run and use the Startup
disk!!

Mart,

That's not strictly true if the poster chooses option 4 from the menu.
No RAMdrive and no tools.


And edit the [Menu] section of config.sys to make option 4 the default
option that is selected if no button is pressed.

menudefault=QUICK,10
for a 10 second time out.

"Kevin J. Nielsen" wrote in
:

You guys are strange, you make such a big deal about meaningless
stuff. Who cares if my email is different from my name, who cares if
I have my preferences? Obviously I know I can boot without the
ramdrive but I have to give up my CD at the same time. But thanks
for your heckles, I figured out how to do it.


snip

Perhaps instead of asking "How can I get rid of 'Ramdrive' on startup
disk?", you should have asked .... "How do I make a boot disk WITH CD
SUPPORT without using a ramdrive". Very simple.

Plonk

Whoops, I cancelled that message; I guess not fast enough. Sorry.

The reason I didnt ask how to create a boot disk with CD support is
that I like the menu in the WinMe boot disk. I would like to at least have
1) boot with CD support, and 2) minimal boot. I know how to make a boot
disk with CD support but I dont know how to make a menu.

Another thing that would be even better and I wouldnt have to throw
away a potentially useful tool is if I could add a menu item to the Windows
Millennium boot disk: 5) boot with CD and no ramdrive.

Anyway, I am sorry if I offended anyone; I will try to think more
carefully next time before I make a post.

Thank you Plonk for your help.

Keven


"Doc" ] wrote in message
. ..
"Kevin J. Nielsen" wrote in
:

You guys are strange, you make such a big deal about meaningless
stuff. Who cares if my email is different from my name, who cares if
I have my preferences? Obviously I know I can boot without the
ramdrive but I have to give up my CD at the same time. But thanks
for your heckles, I figured out how to do it.


snip

Perhaps instead of asking "How can I get rid of 'Ramdrive' on startup
disk?", you should have asked .... "How do I make a boot disk WITH CD
SUPPORT without using a ramdrive". Very simple.

Plonk

"Make one of those Keen DOS Startup Menus"
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article02-054

--
Jack E. Martinelli Former MS MVP 2002-06 for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
------

"Kevin J. Nielsen" wrote in message
...
Whoops, I cancelled that message; I guess not fast enough. Sorry.

The reason I didnt ask how to create a boot disk with CD support is
that I like the menu in the WinMe boot disk. I would like to at least
have
1) boot with CD support, and 2) minimal boot. I know how to make a boot
disk with CD support but I dont know how to make a menu.

Another thing that would be even better and I wouldnt have to throw
away a potentially useful tool is if I could add a menu item to the
Windows
Millennium boot disk: 5) boot with CD and no ramdrive.

Anyway, I am sorry if I offended anyone; I will try to think more
carefully next time before I make a post.

Thank you Plonk for your help.

Keven

SNIP

Hi Jack!

Apologies if incomprehensible.

My DOS Hack mode config.sys for Win ME (way below). I also have one for XP
and 98SE. I used to have a single set that determined which OS was running,
but can't be bothered anymore and just have one for each OS these days (you
know, multiboot scenario, sharing %TEMP% and poss. pagefile.sys).

In the autoexec.bat if the CDROM/RAMDrive option is selected, my batch for
determining which drive is which, runs. I used to have a %CONFIG% for
RAMDrive alone, one for CDROM alone and one where both get installed - in
short one for every possible contingency, but have quit playing. Similarly I
wrote a batch for determining where %TEMP% was, ie which drive, which OS; it
still gets called but is largely REMed out, and a batch for locating the
swap file (then overwriting it with an ECHO.filler%SWAP% -type command) but
went back to default.

A Safe Mode configuration is necessary of course because the hack disables
the F5/F8 means of booting to it.

I have long since built self-extractors to automatically install the DOS
hack-plus-config files - though only for UK copies of ME (I even did an inno
setup version a year ago but don't know if I still have that).

The .exe installs a menu group with one-click return-to-default (since
bootup takes longer with Real Mode installed), basically toggling Real Mode
with a boot in between.

And there's an option to simply restore all original files. Chris Quirke
expressed concern about the computer crashing while IO.SYS was being
overwrit, but nothing remotely like that has ever happened to me; I've never
had a single issue with the Real Mode DOS hack, but don't see a problem in
Chris's scenario. If Windows won't boot because it crashed while IO.SYS was
being overwrit, boot with the EBD and run SYS C: and the original files can
be restored at the same time if desired by typing BOOTBACK and hitting
Enter.

The boot scans/backups option was expanded but as I use it today is pretty
minimal. As a hangover from a previous version it still backs up every .ini
and .sys, for example, in %windir%, %windir%\System or %windir%\System32,
but it's really meant for backing up the DOS side of the machine - presuming
that in DOS one is likely to edit .bats and the like - so all ascii files in
C: and %windir%\command plus boot files. Makebaks.bat zips these using PKZip
for DOS or the Winzip Command Line add-on (in Windows and where installed)
and stores up to seven copies on a seperate drive. In the Command dir it
saves a copy of the current backup and of the previous one, uncompressed, so
you edit a major .bat then realise you made a big mistake, there are plenty
of copies to revert to.

Now, there's another thing. Chris is leary about DOSShell truncating LFNs,
yet I don't see that happening. Type DS and DOSShell starts (along with
Smartdrv if not already running, likewise Mouse. Though not Mouse if USB, of
course). I do not see it truncating LFNs.

If you make a new partition then boot with an EBD and SYS it, you can then
run this self-extractor on it and thereafter use it as an MS-DOS 8.00 system
without ever installing Windows.

For anyone interested, the majority if not all Upgrade copies of a 9x OS not
meant to be installed on a clean partition, can be if you create a folder on
it called Windows and place in that a file called WIN.COM. A text file will
do. All it looks for is the existence of a file of that name. Similarly to
make such a drive bootable just copy the relevent files over then run SYS C:
(or SYS A: C: prior to Win ME). Without a C:\Command.com, C:\IO.SYS etc, SYS
C: won't run. With them it will and you have basically a bootable empty hard
drive.

When you use the start menu shortcuts (or Start/Run - for instance *MFD*
installs Real Mode) if Real Mode is already installed and you run MFD, it
copies the boot files over the master copies, iow you can edit the copies in
the root and replace the masters too, rather than have the new versions
overwritten by the old ones the next time you toggle modes.

The boot scan is what an AV (usually) does automatically in 95/98 but won't
even install in ME even if it has been hacked. The same files are scanned
along with memory and mft etc, only (apart from also running the AVG version
if I have it installed, but whose command line version I don't consider good
enough to bother with if it's not) it runs Kaspersky, Trend, McAfee, Norton
and F-Prot scanners, one after another. Though obviously they have to be
updated.

I used to have a CD that installed first DR-DOS 7.03, then MS-DOS 6.22, then
WFWG 3.11 and a load of utilities and configuration. You just needed a
DR-DOS EBD to boot with initially. But I ditched it as part of the need to
ditch non-LFN aware OSes. I kind of wish I still had that, but that is
exactly why I had to throw it!

snip

DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
DOS=HIGH,UMB

[MENU]
MENUITEM=WME,Windows
MENUITEM=SAFE,Safe Mode
MENUITEM=CMD,Command Prompt
MENUITEM=MIN,Command Prompt, Minimal Boot
MENUITEM=CDR,Command Prompt, Boot Scans, Backups, CDROM support and RAMDrive
MENUDEFAULT=WME,2
MENUCOLOR=15,1

[WME]

[SAFE]

[CMD]

[MIN]

[CDR]
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\RAMDRIVE.SYS /E 20480

[COMMON]
BUFFERS=10
FILES=40
BREAK=ON
COUNTRY=044,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
SHELL=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM /E:2048 /F /P
stacks=9,256

/snip


Shane

Jack E Martinelli wrote:
"Make one of those Keen DOS Startup Menus"
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article02-054


"Kevin J. Nielsen" wrote in message
...
Whoops, I cancelled that message; I guess not fast enough. Sorry.

The reason I didnt ask how to create a boot disk with CD
support is that I like the menu in the WinMe boot disk. I would
like to at least have 1) boot with CD support, and 2) minimal boot.
I know how to make a boot disk with CD support but I dont know how
to make a menu.

Another thing that would be even better and I wouldnt have to
throw away a potentially useful tool is if I could add a menu item
to the Windows Millennium boot disk: 5) boot with CD and no
ramdrive.

Anyway, I am sorry if I offended anyone; I will try to think more
carefully next time before I make a post.

Thank you Plonk for your help.

Keven

SNIP

You are dealing with *Internenet Calculus* here, Shane.
Is there a way to make this plausible to an *average *J.D*?
Surely sounds mighty interesting to me.

Harry.


"Shane" wrote in message
...
Hi Jack!

Apologies if incomprehensible.

My DOS Hack mode config.sys for Win ME (way below). I also have one for XP
and 98SE. I used to have a single set that determined which OS was
running,
but can't be bothered anymore and just have one for each OS these days
(you
know, multiboot scenario, sharing %TEMP% and poss. pagefile.sys).

In the autoexec.bat if the CDROM/RAMDrive option is selected, my batch for
determining which drive is which, runs. I used to have a %CONFIG% for
RAMDrive alone, one for CDROM alone and one where both get installed - in
short one for every possible contingency, but have quit playing. Similarly
I
wrote a batch for determining where %TEMP% was, ie which drive, which OS;
it
still gets called but is largely REMed out, and a batch for locating the
swap file (then overwriting it with an ECHO.filler%SWAP% -type command)
but
went back to default.

A Safe Mode configuration is necessary of course because the hack disables
the F5/F8 means of booting to it.

I have long since built self-extractors to automatically install the DOS
hack-plus-config files - though only for UK copies of ME (I even did an
inno
setup version a year ago but don't know if I still have that).

The .exe installs a menu group with one-click return-to-default (since
bootup takes longer with Real Mode installed), basically toggling Real
Mode
with a boot in between.

And there's an option to simply restore all original files. Chris Quirke
expressed concern about the computer crashing while IO.SYS was being
overwrit, but nothing remotely like that has ever happened to me; I've
never
had a single issue with the Real Mode DOS hack, but don't see a problem in
Chris's scenario. If Windows won't boot because it crashed while IO.SYS
was
being overwrit, boot with the EBD and run SYS C: and the original files
can
be restored at the same time if desired by typing BOOTBACK and hitting
Enter.

The boot scans/backups option was expanded but as I use it today is pretty
minimal. As a hangover from a previous version it still backs up every
..ini
and .sys, for example, in %windir%, %windir%\System or %windir%\System32,
but it's really meant for backing up the DOS side of the machine -
presuming
that in DOS one is likely to edit .bats and the like - so all ascii files
in
C: and %windir%\command plus boot files. Makebaks.bat zips these using
PKZip
for DOS or the Winzip Command Line add-on (in Windows and where installed)
and stores up to seven copies on a seperate drive. In the Command dir it
saves a copy of the current backup and of the previous one, uncompressed,
so
you edit a major .bat then realise you made a big mistake, there are
plenty
of copies to revert to.

Now, there's another thing. Chris is leary about DOSShell truncating LFNs,
yet I don't see that happening. Type DS and DOSShell starts (along with
Smartdrv if not already running, likewise Mouse. Though not Mouse if USB,
of
course). I do not see it truncating LFNs.

If you make a new partition then boot with an EBD and SYS it, you can then
run this self-extractor on it and thereafter use it as an MS-DOS 8.00
system
without ever installing Windows.

For anyone interested, the majority if not all Upgrade copies of a 9x OS
not
meant to be installed on a clean partition, can be if you create a folder
on
it called Windows and place in that a file called WIN.COM. A text file
will
do. All it looks for is the existence of a file of that name. Similarly to
make such a drive bootable just copy the relevent files over then run SYS
C:
(or SYS A: C: prior to Win ME). Without a C:\Command.com, C:\IO.SYS etc,
SYS
C: won't run. With them it will and you have basically a bootable empty
hard
drive.

When you use the start menu shortcuts (or Start/Run - for instance *MFD*
installs Real Mode) if Real Mode is already installed and you run MFD, it
copies the boot files over the master copies, iow you can edit the copies
in
the root and replace the masters too, rather than have the new versions
overwritten by the old ones the next time you toggle modes.

The boot scan is what an AV (usually) does automatically in 95/98 but
won't
even install in ME even if it has been hacked. The same files are scanned
along with memory and mft etc, only (apart from also running the AVG
version
if I have it installed, but whose command line version I don't consider
good
enough to bother with if it's not) it runs Kaspersky, Trend, McAfee,
Norton
and F-Prot scanners, one after another. Though obviously they have to be
updated.

I used to have a CD that installed first DR-DOS 7.03, then MS-DOS 6.22,
then
WFWG 3.11 and a load of utilities and configuration. You just needed a
DR-DOS EBD to boot with initially. But I ditched it as part of the need to
ditch non-LFN aware OSes. I kind of wish I still had that, but that is
exactly why I had to throw it!

snip

DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
DOS=HIGH,UMB

[MENU]
MENUITEM=WME,Windows
MENUITEM=SAFE,Safe Mode
MENUITEM=CMD,Command Prompt
MENUITEM=MIN,Command Prompt, Minimal Boot
MENUITEM=CDR,Command Prompt, Boot Scans, Backups, CDROM support and
RAMDrive
MENUDEFAULT=WME,2
MENUCOLOR=15,1

[WME]

[SAFE]

[CMD]

[MIN]

[CDR]
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\RAMDRIVE.SYS /E 20480

[COMMON]
BUFFERS=10
FILES=40
BREAK=ON
COUNTRY=044,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
SHELL=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM /E:2048 /F /P
stacks=9,256

/snip


Shane

Jack E Martinelli wrote:
"Make one of those Keen DOS Startup Menus"
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article02-054


"Kevin J. Nielsen" wrote in message
...
Whoops, I cancelled that message; I guess not fast enough. Sorry.

The reason I didnt ask how to create a boot disk with CD
support is that I like the menu in the WinMe boot disk. I would
like to at least have 1) boot with CD support, and 2) minimal boot.
I know how to make a boot disk with CD support but I dont know how
to make a menu.

Another thing that would be even better and I wouldnt have to
throw away a potentially useful tool is if I could add a menu item
to the Windows Millennium boot disk: 5) boot with CD and no
ramdrive.

Anyway, I am sorry if I offended anyone; I will try to think more
carefully next time before I make a post.

Thank you Plonk for your help.

Keven

SNIP

Since the first Babe I had the hots for had those initials, she's who I
think of when I see them. Talk about gazongas!

But I take it you mean Joe Dolce. :-) I mean John Doe!

Not much point, Harry, if you don't want Real Mode DOS unhidden on your ME
system. Same re generally learning DOS, which I suppose is the other
implication. Like all scripting languages it takes time and experimentation
to learn. Personally I, in almost every case, have to experience it to learn
it. To understand it's context. Odds are if you've got this far without
learning enough about DOS to understand what I said, say within the same
ballpark I said it in (?), it means you have no need for it. So learning it
would be a complete and utter waste of time. Well, unless you've got it to
waste :-)

But having an 'instructor' to oversee your attempts for several weeks or
months, well, I guess that's a paid-for service! Otherwise you get a basic
introduction then experiment on your own until you get it. Only you can
destroy your system from DOS in a way you can't from Windows,
System-File-Protection-no-longer-running-wise!

So, what exactly are you asking, Harry? I can't e-mail you the DOS hack
setup because you have different settings. You have to run the hack
yourself. I could then supply you with an MS-DOS 8.00 OS to use with it
(especially since the US settings are the default ones, so you simply remove
reference to display, country and keyboard to get them). But is there any
point?


Shane


webster72n wrote:
You are dealing with *Internenet Calculus* here, Shane.
Is there a way to make this plausible to an *average *J.D*?
Surely sounds mighty interesting to me.

Harry.


"Shane" wrote in message
...
Hi Jack!

Apologies if incomprehensible.

My DOS Hack mode config.sys for Win ME (way below). I also have one
for XP and 98SE. I used to have a single set that determined which
OS was running, but can't be bothered anymore and just have one for
each OS these days (you know, multiboot scenario, sharing %TEMP% and
poss. pagefile.sys).

In the autoexec.bat if the CDROM/RAMDrive option is selected, my
batch for determining which drive is which, runs. I used to have a
%CONFIG% for RAMDrive alone, one for CDROM alone and one where both
get installed - in short one for every possible contingency, but
have quit playing. Similarly I wrote a batch for determining where
%TEMP% was, ie which drive, which OS; it still gets called but is
largely REMed out, and a batch for locating the swap file (then
overwriting it with an ECHO.filler%SWAP% -type command) but went
back to default.

A Safe Mode configuration is necessary of course because the hack
disables the F5/F8 means of booting to it.

I have long since built self-extractors to automatically install the
DOS hack-plus-config files - though only for UK copies of ME (I even
did an inno setup version a year ago but don't know if I still have
that).

The .exe installs a menu group with one-click return-to-default
(since bootup takes longer with Real Mode installed), basically
toggling Real Mode with a boot in between.

And there's an option to simply restore all original files. Chris
Quirke expressed concern about the computer crashing while IO.SYS
was being overwrit, but nothing remotely like that has ever happened
to me; I've never had a single issue with the Real Mode DOS hack,
but don't see a problem in Chris's scenario. If Windows won't boot
because it crashed while IO.SYS was being overwrit, boot with the
EBD and run SYS C: and the original files can be restored at the
same time if desired by typing BOOTBACK and hitting Enter.

The boot scans/backups option was expanded but as I use it today is
pretty minimal. As a hangover from a previous version it still backs
up every .ini and .sys, for example, in %windir%, %windir%\System or
%windir%\System32, but it's really meant for backing up the DOS side
of the machine - presuming that in DOS one is likely to edit .bats
and the like - so all ascii files in C: and %windir%\command plus
boot files. Makebaks.bat zips these using PKZip for DOS or the
Winzip Command Line add-on (in Windows and where installed) and
stores up to seven copies on a seperate drive. In the Command dir it
saves a copy of the current backup and of the previous one,
uncompressed, so you edit a major .bat then realise you made a big
mistake, there are plenty of copies to revert to.

Now, there's another thing. Chris is leary about DOSShell truncating
LFNs, yet I don't see that happening. Type DS and DOSShell starts
(along with Smartdrv if not already running, likewise Mouse. Though
not Mouse if USB, of course). I do not see it truncating LFNs.

If you make a new partition then boot with an EBD and SYS it, you
can then run this self-extractor on it and thereafter use it as an
MS-DOS 8.00 system without ever installing Windows.

For anyone interested, the majority if not all Upgrade copies of a
9x OS not meant to be installed on a clean partition, can be if you
create a folder on it called Windows and place in that a file called
WIN.COM. A text file will do. All it looks for is the existence of a
file of that name. Similarly to make such a drive bootable just copy
the relevent files over then run SYS C: (or SYS A: C: prior to Win
ME). Without a C:\Command.com, C:\IO.SYS etc, SYS C: won't run. With
them it will and you have basically a bootable empty hard drive.

When you use the start menu shortcuts (or Start/Run - for instance
*MFD* installs Real Mode) if Real Mode is already installed and you
run MFD, it copies the boot files over the master copies, iow you
can edit the copies in the root and replace the masters too, rather
than have the new versions overwritten by the old ones the next time
you toggle modes.

The boot scan is what an AV (usually) does automatically in 95/98
but won't even install in ME even if it has been hacked. The same
files are scanned along with memory and mft etc, only (apart from
also running the AVG version if I have it installed, but whose
command line version I don't consider good enough to bother with if
it's not) it runs Kaspersky, Trend, McAfee, Norton and F-Prot
scanners, one after another. Though obviously they have to be
updated.

I used to have a CD that installed first DR-DOS 7.03, then MS-DOS
6.22, then WFWG 3.11 and a load of utilities and configuration. You
just needed a DR-DOS EBD to boot with initially. But I ditched it as
part of the need to ditch non-LFN aware OSes. I kind of wish I still
had that, but that is exactly why I had to throw it!

snip

DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
DOS=HIGH,UMB

[MENU]
MENUITEM=WME,Windows
MENUITEM=SAFE,Safe Mode
MENUITEM=CMD,Command Prompt
MENUITEM=MIN,Command Prompt, Minimal Boot
MENUITEM=CDR,Command Prompt, Boot Scans, Backups, CDROM support and
RAMDrive MENUDEFAULT=WME,2
MENUCOLOR=15,1

[WME]

[SAFE]

[CMD]

[MIN]

[CDR]
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\RAMDRIVE.SYS /E 20480

[COMMON]
BUFFERS=10
FILES=40
BREAK=ON
COUNTRY=044,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
SHELL=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM /E:2048 /F /P
stacks=9,256

/snip


Shane

Jack E Martinelli wrote:
"Make one of those Keen DOS Startup Menus"
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article02-054


"Kevin J. Nielsen" wrote in message
...
Whoops, I cancelled that message; I guess not fast enough. Sorry.

The reason I didnt ask how to create a boot disk with CD
support is that I like the menu in the WinMe boot disk. I would
like to at least have 1) boot with CD support, and 2) minimal boot.
I know how to make a boot disk with CD support but I dont know how
to make a menu.

Another thing that would be even better and I wouldnt have to
throw away a potentially useful tool is if I could add a menu item
to the Windows Millennium boot disk: 5) boot with CD and no
ramdrive.

Anyway, I am sorry if I offended anyone; I will try to think more
carefully next time before I make a post.

Thank you Plonk for your help.

Keven

SNIP

If interested, my current ME DOS Hack mode Autoexec.bat

snip

@ECHO OFF
CLS
IF "%CDRAMRUN%"=="1" GOTO LOOP

ATTRIB -H -S -A C:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP
ECHO.C:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND
SET COMSPEC=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM
SET TMPDRV=C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
CALL C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\FINDTEMP.BAT C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V
W X Y Z
SET TMP=%TEMP%
SET DIRCMD=/O:GEN/A/P
SET COPYCMD=/Y
SET GERTCHA=C:

IF "%CONFIG%"=="WME" SET GERTCHA=WIN
IF "%CONFIG%"=="SAFE" SET GERTCHA=WIN /D:M

IF "%CONFIG%"=="SAFE" GOTO QUICK
IF "%CONFIG%"=="MIN" GOTO QUICK

SET PROMPT=[MS-DOS
8.00] $p$g
SET WINPMT=[WIN ME] $p$g

IF "%CONFIG%"=="WME" GOTO QUICK
LH DOSKEY
DOSKEY /INSERT
LH ANSI.COM
SET MOUSE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND
LH MOUSE.EXE /Q
LH SMARTDRV /X

IF "%CONFIG%"=="CMD" GOTO QUICK

SET COUNT=C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
SET CDRAMRUN=1
CALL AUTOEXEC.BAT %COUNT%
GOTO END

:LOOP
SET COUNT=%1
IF NOT EXIST %COUNT%:\NUL SET CDROM=%COUNT%
IF "%COUNT%"=="%CDROM%" GOTO VARS_SET

SHIFT
GOTO LOOP

:VARS_SET
SET RAMD=%0
SET PATH=%RAMD%:\;%PATH%
LH MSCDEX /D:MSCD001 /L:%CDROM%
SET CDRAMRUN=
SET COUNT=

:QUICK
MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((850) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EGA.CPI)
MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=850
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\KEYB UK,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\KEYBOARD.SYS
IF "%CONFIG%"=="CDR" CALL AV_SCAN
CLS
IF "%GERTCHA%"=="C:" GOTO ENDWAIT
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo Starting the day after any day now.....

:ENDWAIT
%GERTCHA%

:END


/snip


Shane









Shane wrote:
Since the first Babe I had the hots for had those initials, she's who
I think of when I see them. Talk about gazongas!

But I take it you mean Joe Dolce. :-) I mean John Doe!

Not much point, Harry, if you don't want Real Mode DOS unhidden on
your ME system. Same re generally learning DOS, which I suppose is
the other implication. Like all scripting languages it takes time and
experimentation to learn. Personally I, in almost every case, have to
experience it to learn it. To understand it's context. Odds are if
you've got this far without learning enough about DOS to understand
what I said, say within the same ballpark I said it in (?), it means
you have no need for it. So learning it would be a complete and utter
waste of time. Well, unless you've got it to waste :-)

But having an 'instructor' to oversee your attempts for several weeks
or months, well, I guess that's a paid-for service! Otherwise you get
a basic introduction then experiment on your own until you get it.
Only you can destroy your system from DOS in a way you can't from
Windows, System-File-Protection-no-longer-running-wise!

So, what exactly are you asking, Harry? I can't e-mail you the DOS
hack setup because you have different settings. You have to run the
hack yourself. I could then supply you with an MS-DOS 8.00 OS to use
with it (especially since the US settings are the default ones, so
you simply remove reference to display, country and keyboard to get
them). But is there any point?


Shane


webster72n wrote:
You are dealing with *Internenet Calculus* here, Shane.
Is there a way to make this plausible to an *average *J.D*?
Surely sounds mighty interesting to me.

Harry.


"Shane" wrote in message
...
Hi Jack!

Apologies if incomprehensible.

My DOS Hack mode config.sys for Win ME (way below). I also have one
for XP and 98SE. I used to have a single set that determined which
OS was running, but can't be bothered anymore and just have one for
each OS these days (you know, multiboot scenario, sharing %TEMP% and
poss. pagefile.sys).

In the autoexec.bat if the CDROM/RAMDrive option is selected, my
batch for determining which drive is which, runs. I used to have a
%CONFIG% for RAMDrive alone, one for CDROM alone and one where both
get installed - in short one for every possible contingency, but
have quit playing. Similarly I wrote a batch for determining where
%TEMP% was, ie which drive, which OS; it still gets called but is
largely REMed out, and a batch for locating the swap file (then
overwriting it with an ECHO.filler%SWAP% -type command) but went
back to default.

A Safe Mode configuration is necessary of course because the hack
disables the F5/F8 means of booting to it.

I have long since built self-extractors to automatically install the
DOS hack-plus-config files - though only for UK copies of ME (I even
did an inno setup version a year ago but don't know if I still have
that).

The .exe installs a menu group with one-click return-to-default
(since bootup takes longer with Real Mode installed), basically
toggling Real Mode with a boot in between.

And there's an option to simply restore all original files. Chris
Quirke expressed concern about the computer crashing while IO.SYS
was being overwrit, but nothing remotely like that has ever happened
to me; I've never had a single issue with the Real Mode DOS hack,
but don't see a problem in Chris's scenario. If Windows won't boot
because it crashed while IO.SYS was being overwrit, boot with the
EBD and run SYS C: and the original files can be restored at the
same time if desired by typing BOOTBACK and hitting Enter.

The boot scans/backups option was expanded but as I use it today is
pretty minimal. As a hangover from a previous version it still backs
up every .ini and .sys, for example, in %windir%, %windir%\System or
%windir%\System32, but it's really meant for backing up the DOS side
of the machine - presuming that in DOS one is likely to edit .bats
and the like - so all ascii files in C: and %windir%\command plus
boot files. Makebaks.bat zips these using PKZip for DOS or the
Winzip Command Line add-on (in Windows and where installed) and
stores up to seven copies on a seperate drive. In the Command dir it
saves a copy of the current backup and of the previous one,
uncompressed, so you edit a major .bat then realise you made a big
mistake, there are plenty of copies to revert to.

Now, there's another thing. Chris is leary about DOSShell truncating
LFNs, yet I don't see that happening. Type DS and DOSShell starts
(along with Smartdrv if not already running, likewise Mouse. Though
not Mouse if USB, of course). I do not see it truncating LFNs.

If you make a new partition then boot with an EBD and SYS it, you
can then run this self-extractor on it and thereafter use it as an
MS-DOS 8.00 system without ever installing Windows.

For anyone interested, the majority if not all Upgrade copies of a
9x OS not meant to be installed on a clean partition, can be if you
create a folder on it called Windows and place in that a file called
WIN.COM. A text file will do. All it looks for is the existence of a
file of that name. Similarly to make such a drive bootable just copy
the relevent files over then run SYS C: (or SYS A: C: prior to Win
ME). Without a C:\Command.com, C:\IO.SYS etc, SYS C: won't run. With
them it will and you have basically a bootable empty hard drive.

When you use the start menu shortcuts (or Start/Run - for instance
*MFD* installs Real Mode) if Real Mode is already installed and you
run MFD, it copies the boot files over the master copies, iow you
can edit the copies in the root and replace the masters too, rather
than have the new versions overwritten by the old ones the next time
you toggle modes.

The boot scan is what an AV (usually) does automatically in 95/98
but won't even install in ME even if it has been hacked. The same
files are scanned along with memory and mft etc, only (apart from
also running the AVG version if I have it installed, but whose
command line version I don't consider good enough to bother with if
it's not) it runs Kaspersky, Trend, McAfee, Norton and F-Prot
scanners, one after another. Though obviously they have to be
updated.

I used to have a CD that installed first DR-DOS 7.03, then MS-DOS
6.22, then WFWG 3.11 and a load of utilities and configuration. You
just needed a DR-DOS EBD to boot with initially. But I ditched it as
part of the need to ditch non-LFN aware OSes. I kind of wish I still
had that, but that is exactly why I had to throw it!

snip

DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
DOS=HIGH,UMB

[MENU]
MENUITEM=WME,Windows
MENUITEM=SAFE,Safe Mode
MENUITEM=CMD,Command Prompt
MENUITEM=MIN,Command Prompt, Minimal Boot
MENUITEM=CDR,Command Prompt, Boot Scans, Backups, CDROM support and
RAMDrive MENUDEFAULT=WME,2
MENUCOLOR=15,1

[WME]

[SAFE]

[CMD]

[MIN]

[CDR]
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\RAMDRIVE.SYS /E 20480

[COMMON]
BUFFERS=10
FILES=40
BREAK=ON
COUNTRY=044,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
SHELL=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM /E:2048 /F /P
stacks=9,256

/snip


Shane

Jack E Martinelli wrote:
"Make one of those Keen DOS Startup Menus"
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article02-054


"Kevin J. Nielsen" wrote in message
...
Whoops, I cancelled that message; I guess not fast enough. Sorry.

The reason I didnt ask how to create a boot disk with CD
support is that I like the menu in the WinMe boot disk. I would
like to at least have 1) boot with CD support, and 2) minimal
boot. I know how to make a boot disk with CD support but I dont
know how to make a menu.

Another thing that would be even better and I wouldnt have to
throw away a potentially useful tool is if I could add a menu item
to the Windows Millennium boot disk: 5) boot with CD and no
ramdrive.

Anyway, I am sorry if I offended anyone; I will try to think
more carefully next time before I make a post.

Thank you Plonk for your help.

Keven

SNIP

I just realised it's been altered again. Just for the moment I forget which
prog does that. It's changed %TMPDRV% to it's full value.

Line 10 should read:

CALL C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\FINDTEMP.BAT %TMPDRV%

There are certain parts of M$ Operating Systems that really pig me off!


Shane




Shane wrote:
If interested, my current ME DOS Hack mode Autoexec.bat

snip

@ECHO OFF
CLS
IF "%CDRAMRUN%"=="1" GOTO LOOP

ATTRIB -H -S -A C:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP
ECHO.C:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND
SET COMSPEC=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM
SET TMPDRV=C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
CALL C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\FINDTEMP.BAT C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R
S T U V W X Y Z
SET TMP=%TEMP%
SET DIRCMD=/O:GEN/A/P
SET COPYCMD=/Y
SET GERTCHA=C:

IF "%CONFIG%"=="WME" SET GERTCHA=WIN
IF "%CONFIG%"=="SAFE" SET GERTCHA=WIN /D:M

IF "%CONFIG%"=="SAFE" GOTO QUICK
IF "%CONFIG%"=="MIN" GOTO QUICK

SET PROMPT=[MS-DOS
8.00] $p$g
SET WINPMT=[WIN ME]
$p$g
IF "%CONFIG%"=="WME" GOTO QUICK
LH DOSKEY
DOSKEY /INSERT
LH ANSI.COM
SET MOUSE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND
LH MOUSE.EXE /Q
LH SMARTDRV /X

IF "%CONFIG%"=="CMD" GOTO QUICK

SET COUNT=C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
SET CDRAMRUN=1
CALL AUTOEXEC.BAT %COUNT%
GOTO END

LOOP
SET COUNT=%1
IF NOT EXIST %COUNT%:\NUL SET CDROM=%COUNT%
IF "%COUNT%"=="%CDROM%" GOTO VARS_SET

SHIFT
GOTO LOOP

VARS_SET
SET RAMD=%0
SET PATH=%RAMD%:\;%PATH%
LH MSCDEX /D:MSCD001 /L:%CDROM%
SET CDRAMRUN=
SET COUNT=

QUICK
MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((850) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EGA.CPI)
MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=850
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\KEYB UK,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\KEYBOARD.SYS
IF "%CONFIG%"=="CDR" CALL AV_SCAN
CLS
IF "%GERTCHA%"=="C:" GOTO ENDWAIT
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo Starting the day after any day now.....

ENDWAIT
%GERTCHA%

END


/snip


Shane









Shane wrote:
Since the first Babe I had the hots for had those initials, she's who
I think of when I see them. Talk about gazongas!

But I take it you mean Joe Dolce. :-) I mean John Doe!

Not much point, Harry, if you don't want Real Mode DOS unhidden on
your ME system. Same re generally learning DOS, which I suppose is
the other implication. Like all scripting languages it takes time and
experimentation to learn. Personally I, in almost every case, have to
experience it to learn it. To understand it's context. Odds are if
you've got this far without learning enough about DOS to understand
what I said, say within the same ballpark I said it in (?), it means
you have no need for it. So learning it would be a complete and utter
waste of time. Well, unless you've got it to waste :-)

But having an 'instructor' to oversee your attempts for several weeks
or months, well, I guess that's a paid-for service! Otherwise you get
a basic introduction then experiment on your own until you get it.
Only you can destroy your system from DOS in a way you can't from
Windows, System-File-Protection-no-longer-running-wise!

So, what exactly are you asking, Harry? I can't e-mail you the DOS
hack setup because you have different settings. You have to run the
hack yourself. I could then supply you with an MS-DOS 8.00 OS to use
with it (especially since the US settings are the default ones, so
you simply remove reference to display, country and keyboard to get
them). But is there any point?


Shane


webster72n wrote:
You are dealing with *Internenet Calculus* here, Shane.
Is there a way to make this plausible to an *average *J.D*?
Surely sounds mighty interesting to me.

Harry.


"Shane" wrote in message
...
Hi Jack!

Apologies if incomprehensible.

My DOS Hack mode config.sys for Win ME (way below). I also have one
for XP and 98SE. I used to have a single set that determined which
OS was running, but can't be bothered anymore and just have one for
each OS these days (you know, multiboot scenario, sharing %TEMP%
and poss. pagefile.sys).

In the autoexec.bat if the CDROM/RAMDrive option is selected, my
batch for determining which drive is which, runs. I used to have a
%CONFIG% for RAMDrive alone, one for CDROM alone and one where both
get installed - in short one for every possible contingency, but
have quit playing. Similarly I wrote a batch for determining where
%TEMP% was, ie which drive, which OS; it still gets called but is
largely REMed out, and a batch for locating the swap file (then
overwriting it with an ECHO.filler%SWAP% -type command) but went
back to default.

A Safe Mode configuration is necessary of course because the hack
disables the F5/F8 means of booting to it.

I have long since built self-extractors to automatically install
the DOS hack-plus-config files - though only for UK copies of ME
(I even did an inno setup version a year ago but don't know if I
still have that).

The .exe installs a menu group with one-click return-to-default
(since bootup takes longer with Real Mode installed), basically
toggling Real Mode with a boot in between.

And there's an option to simply restore all original files. Chris
Quirke expressed concern about the computer crashing while IO.SYS
was being overwrit, but nothing remotely like that has ever
happened to me; I've never had a single issue with the Real Mode
DOS hack, but don't see a problem in Chris's scenario. If Windows
won't boot because it crashed while IO.SYS was being overwrit,
boot with the EBD and run SYS C: and the original files can be
restored at the same time if desired by typing BOOTBACK and
hitting Enter. The boot scans/backups option was expanded but as I use
it today is
pretty minimal. As a hangover from a previous version it still
backs up every .ini and .sys, for example, in %windir%,
%windir%\System or %windir%\System32, but it's really meant for
backing up the DOS side of the machine - presuming that in DOS one
is likely to edit .bats and the like - so all ascii files in C:
and %windir%\command plus boot files. Makebaks.bat zips these
using PKZip for DOS or the Winzip Command Line add-on (in Windows
and where installed) and stores up to seven copies on a seperate
drive. In the Command dir it saves a copy of the current backup
and of the previous one, uncompressed, so you edit a major .bat
then realise you made a big mistake, there are plenty of copies to
revert to. Now, there's another thing. Chris is leary about DOSShell
truncating LFNs, yet I don't see that happening. Type DS and
DOSShell starts (along with Smartdrv if not already running,
likewise Mouse. Though not Mouse if USB, of course). I do not see
it truncating LFNs. If you make a new partition then boot with an EBD
and SYS it, you
can then run this self-extractor on it and thereafter use it as an
MS-DOS 8.00 system without ever installing Windows.

For anyone interested, the majority if not all Upgrade copies of a
9x OS not meant to be installed on a clean partition, can be if you
create a folder on it called Windows and place in that a file
called WIN.COM. A text file will do. All it looks for is the
existence of a file of that name. Similarly to make such a drive
bootable just copy the relevent files over then run SYS C: (or SYS
A: C: prior to Win ME). Without a C:\Command.com, C:\IO.SYS etc,
SYS C: won't run. With them it will and you have basically a
bootable empty hard drive. When you use the start menu shortcuts (or
Start/Run - for instance
*MFD* installs Real Mode) if Real Mode is already installed and you
run MFD, it copies the boot files over the master copies, iow you
can edit the copies in the root and replace the masters too, rather
than have the new versions overwritten by the old ones the next
time you toggle modes.

The boot scan is what an AV (usually) does automatically in 95/98
but won't even install in ME even if it has been hacked. The same
files are scanned along with memory and mft etc, only (apart from
also running the AVG version if I have it installed, but whose
command line version I don't consider good enough to bother with if
it's not) it runs Kaspersky, Trend, McAfee, Norton and F-Prot
scanners, one after another. Though obviously they have to be
updated.

I used to have a CD that installed first DR-DOS 7.03, then MS-DOS
6.22, then WFWG 3.11 and a load of utilities and configuration. You
just needed a DR-DOS EBD to boot with initially. But I ditched it
as part of the need to ditch non-LFN aware OSes. I kind of wish I
still had that, but that is exactly why I had to throw it!

snip

DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
DOS=HIGH,UMB

[MENU]
MENUITEM=WME,Windows
MENUITEM=SAFE,Safe Mode
MENUITEM=CMD,Command Prompt
MENUITEM=MIN,Command Prompt, Minimal Boot
MENUITEM=CDR,Command Prompt, Boot Scans, Backups, CDROM support and
RAMDrive MENUDEFAULT=WME,2
MENUCOLOR=15,1

[WME]

[SAFE]

[CMD]

[MIN]

[CDR]
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\RAMDRIVE.SYS /E 20480

[COMMON]
BUFFERS=10
FILES=40
BREAK=ON
COUNTRY=044,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
SHELL=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM /E:2048 /F /P
stacks=9,256

/snip


Shane

Jack E Martinelli wrote:
"Make one of those Keen DOS Startup Menus"
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article02-054


"Kevin J. Nielsen" wrote in message
...
Whoops, I cancelled that message; I guess not fast enough. Sorry. The
reason I didnt ask how to create a boot disk with CD
support is that I like the menu in the WinMe boot disk. I would
like to at least have 1) boot with CD support, and 2) minimal
boot. I know how to make a boot disk with CD support but I dont
know how to make a menu.

Another thing that would be even better and I wouldnt have
to throw away a potentially useful tool is if I could add a menu
item to the Windows Millennium boot disk: 5) boot with CD and no
ramdrive.

Anyway, I am sorry if I offended anyone; I will try to think
more carefully next time before I make a post.

Thank you Plonk for your help.

Keven

SNIP