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Updating Windows 98



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 2nd 06, 07:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Updating Windows 98

Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 00:54 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
My tendency would be the pessimistic one -- that it *isn't* "Full
Retail" and is instead OEM. You can verify this by simply asking
what the Product Key is, since the OEM product keys include "OEM" as
the second alphanumeric group.

But I should backtrack a bit... Really, unless your current Win98
system is recently installed and has *not* been brought up to date
with things like WMP 7 and IE 6 SP1 -- unless it's danged near a
virgin you would be *much* better off installing a clean copy. I
could go into all the reasons, but suffice it to say that
overinstalling, even upgrading, seldom fixes real problems. In the
scenario I warn against above, the issue is primarily that Setup
defaults to overwriting newer versions of system files with older
ones. There are a couple of safeguards against this, one being that
the default for this or that component happens to be to keep the
newer files, and the other called VCM -- Version Control Manager --
which allows the older versions to be installed but keeps backups of
the overwritten files that you can restore later. NEITHER of those
protective mechanisms works well, so you almost
certainly end up with a bit of DLL Hell (mismatched system files and
Registry entries) AND you haven't remedied any real problems other
than to get the benefits of upgrading -- maybe.

How large is your hard drive? It really isn't that big a deal to
clean install and move your personal files to the new system,
provided you have a bit of extra space. The biggest issue left is
installed programs for which you've lost the installation files. You
will end up with a *much* leaner, higher performing system in the
end.


Hi Gary,

thanks for your message.

The laptop we are talking about here obviously isn't my main computer,
and come to think of it, it doesn't actually have that much stuff on
there, so I think I'll take your advice and install Win 98 SE from
scratch.
Just one last question: what's the best way of actually doing it?

Presumably I should boot from the CD and take it from there?

Thanks

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk


To truly start from scratch, I do the following: If you don't have a boot
floppy, get one he

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm (Windows 98 SE OEM ought to do)

Before you do the steps below, copy the files FDISK and FORMAT on your
present system to a stand-by floppy. I'm not sure all the bootdisks from
the site above will have both.

Run FDISK (choose Large HD support, i.e. FAT32), delete all existing
partitions, create a partition for Win98 (say 5GB or larger without knowing
what you have or what you're doing with it), set this paritition as active,
create another partition for files using the rest of the HD space (I always
create two primary partitions, not extended partitions, even though error
messages squawk about it I've never had a problem), reboot, then FORMAT both
partitions. Reboot (actually may not need to yet if the CD is in the
drive).

At this point you could reboot using the CD and let Windows take install
from the CD however I've found it faster and more reliable to move the
install files to the C: drive. Here's how:

* Put the CD in and reboot to the floppy
* Make a directory on the C: drive called Win98
* Copy all of the contents from the CD Win98 directory (probably E:\Win98 if
you created two primary partitions on the HD) to the C:\Win98 directory
* Run Setup.exe from the C:\Win98 directory

Good luck,



  #12  
Old March 2nd 06, 08:19 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Updating Windows 98

On 02.03.2006 06:26 UK Time, mdp wrote:
Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 00:54 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
My tendency would be the pessimistic one -- that it *isn't* "Full
Retail" and is instead OEM. You can verify this by simply asking
what the Product Key is, since the OEM product keys include "OEM" as
the second alphanumeric group.

But I should backtrack a bit... Really, unless your current Win98
system is recently installed and has *not* been brought up to date
with things like WMP 7 and IE 6 SP1 -- unless it's danged near a
virgin you would be *much* better off installing a clean copy. I
could go into all the reasons, but suffice it to say that
overinstalling, even upgrading, seldom fixes real problems. In the
scenario I warn against above, the issue is primarily that Setup
defaults to overwriting newer versions of system files with older
ones. There are a couple of safeguards against this, one being that
the default for this or that component happens to be to keep the
newer files, and the other called VCM -- Version Control Manager --
which allows the older versions to be installed but keeps backups of
the overwritten files that you can restore later. NEITHER of those
protective mechanisms works well, so you almost
certainly end up with a bit of DLL Hell (mismatched system files and
Registry entries) AND you haven't remedied any real problems other
than to get the benefits of upgrading -- maybe.

How large is your hard drive? It really isn't that big a deal to
clean install and move your personal files to the new system,
provided you have a bit of extra space. The biggest issue left is
installed programs for which you've lost the installation files. You
will end up with a *much* leaner, higher performing system in the
end.

Hi Gary,

thanks for your message.

The laptop we are talking about here obviously isn't my main computer,
and come to think of it, it doesn't actually have that much stuff on
there, so I think I'll take your advice and install Win 98 SE from
scratch.
Just one last question: what's the best way of actually doing it?

Presumably I should boot from the CD and take it from there?

Thanks

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk


To truly start from scratch, I do the following: If you don't have a boot
floppy, get one he

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm (Windows 98 SE OEM ought to do)

Before you do the steps below, copy the files FDISK and FORMAT on your
present system to a stand-by floppy. I'm not sure all the bootdisks from
the site above will have both.

Run FDISK (choose Large HD support, i.e. FAT32), delete all existing
partitions, create a partition for Win98 (say 5GB or larger without knowing
what you have or what you're doing with it), set this paritition as active,
create another partition for files using the rest of the HD space (I always
create two primary partitions, not extended partitions, even though error
messages squawk about it I've never had a problem), reboot, then FORMAT both
partitions. Reboot (actually may not need to yet if the CD is in the
drive).

At this point you could reboot using the CD and let Windows take install
from the CD however I've found it faster and more reliable to move the
install files to the C: drive. Here's how:

* Put the CD in and reboot to the floppy
* Make a directory on the C: drive called Win98
* Copy all of the contents from the CD Win98 directory (probably E:\Win98 if
you created two primary partitions on the HD) to the C:\Win98 directory
* Run Setup.exe from the C:\Win98 directory

Good luck,


Hi,

many thanks for your comprehensive advice.

However, I'm not sure I want to introduce the added complication of a
second partition. This isn't my main machine - it's an old laptop that
is mainly used by my wife on an occasional basis, and I would like
things to be as straightforward as possible.

Also, I'm not too concerned about the speed of the installation.

What would your cut-down installation advice be?

Something like insert boot floppy, run FDISK, then install from CD?

Thanks

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk
  #13  
Old March 2nd 06, 10:09 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Updating Windows 98

On 02.03.2006 07:19 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 06:26 UK Time, mdp wrote:
Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 00:54 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
My tendency would be the pessimistic one -- that it *isn't* "Full
Retail" and is instead OEM. You can verify this by simply asking
what the Product Key is, since the OEM product keys include "OEM" as
the second alphanumeric group.

But I should backtrack a bit... Really, unless your current Win98
system is recently installed and has *not* been brought up to date
with things like WMP 7 and IE 6 SP1 -- unless it's danged near a
virgin you would be *much* better off installing a clean copy. I
could go into all the reasons, but suffice it to say that
overinstalling, even upgrading, seldom fixes real problems. In the
scenario I warn against above, the issue is primarily that Setup
defaults to overwriting newer versions of system files with older
ones. There are a couple of safeguards against this, one being that
the default for this or that component happens to be to keep the
newer files, and the other called VCM -- Version Control Manager --
which allows the older versions to be installed but keeps backups of
the overwritten files that you can restore later. NEITHER of those
protective mechanisms works well, so you almost
certainly end up with a bit of DLL Hell (mismatched system files and
Registry entries) AND you haven't remedied any real problems other
than to get the benefits of upgrading -- maybe.

How large is your hard drive? It really isn't that big a deal to
clean install and move your personal files to the new system,
provided you have a bit of extra space. The biggest issue left is
installed programs for which you've lost the installation files. You
will end up with a *much* leaner, higher performing system in the
end.
Hi Gary,

thanks for your message.

The laptop we are talking about here obviously isn't my main computer,
and come to think of it, it doesn't actually have that much stuff on
there, so I think I'll take your advice and install Win 98 SE from
scratch.
Just one last question: what's the best way of actually doing it?

Presumably I should boot from the CD and take it from there?

Thanks

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk


To truly start from scratch, I do the following: If you don't have a
boot floppy, get one he

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm (Windows 98 SE OEM ought to do)

Before you do the steps below, copy the files FDISK and FORMAT on your
present system to a stand-by floppy. I'm not sure all the bootdisks
from the site above will have both.

Run FDISK (choose Large HD support, i.e. FAT32), delete all existing
partitions, create a partition for Win98 (say 5GB or larger without
knowing what you have or what you're doing with it), set this
paritition as active, create another partition for files using the
rest of the HD space (I always create two primary partitions, not
extended partitions, even though error messages squawk about it I've
never had a problem), reboot, then FORMAT both partitions. Reboot
(actually may not need to yet if the CD is in the drive).

At this point you could reboot using the CD and let Windows take
install from the CD however I've found it faster and more reliable to
move the install files to the C: drive. Here's how:

* Put the CD in and reboot to the floppy
* Make a directory on the C: drive called Win98
* Copy all of the contents from the CD Win98 directory (probably
E:\Win98 if you created two primary partitions on the HD) to the
C:\Win98 directory
* Run Setup.exe from the C:\Win98 directory

Good luck,


Hi,

many thanks for your comprehensive advice.

However, I'm not sure I want to introduce the added complication of a
second partition. This isn't my main machine - it's an old laptop that
is mainly used by my wife on an occasional basis, and I would like
things to be as straightforward as possible.

Also, I'm not too concerned about the speed of the installation.

What would your cut-down installation advice be?

Something like insert boot floppy, run FDISK, then install from CD?


One more question, sorry.

I have a boot flopy. It contains FDISK, but not FORMAT - what is the
difference/respective purpose?

Thank you.

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk
  #14  
Old March 2nd 06, 11:30 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Updating Windows 98

On 02.03.2006 09:09 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 07:19 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 06:26 UK Time, mdp wrote:
Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 00:54 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
My tendency would be the pessimistic one -- that it *isn't* "Full
Retail" and is instead OEM. You can verify this by simply asking
what the Product Key is, since the OEM product keys include "OEM" as
the second alphanumeric group.

But I should backtrack a bit... Really, unless your current Win98
system is recently installed and has *not* been brought up to date
with things like WMP 7 and IE 6 SP1 -- unless it's danged near a
virgin you would be *much* better off installing a clean copy. I
could go into all the reasons, but suffice it to say that
overinstalling, even upgrading, seldom fixes real problems. In the
scenario I warn against above, the issue is primarily that Setup
defaults to overwriting newer versions of system files with older
ones. There are a couple of safeguards against this, one being that
the default for this or that component happens to be to keep the
newer files, and the other called VCM -- Version Control Manager --
which allows the older versions to be installed but keeps backups of
the overwritten files that you can restore later. NEITHER of those
protective mechanisms works well, so you almost
certainly end up with a bit of DLL Hell (mismatched system files and
Registry entries) AND you haven't remedied any real problems other
than to get the benefits of upgrading -- maybe.

How large is your hard drive? It really isn't that big a deal to
clean install and move your personal files to the new system,
provided you have a bit of extra space. The biggest issue left is
installed programs for which you've lost the installation files. You
will end up with a *much* leaner, higher performing system in the
end.
Hi Gary,

thanks for your message.

The laptop we are talking about here obviously isn't my main computer,
and come to think of it, it doesn't actually have that much stuff on
there, so I think I'll take your advice and install Win 98 SE from
scratch.
Just one last question: what's the best way of actually doing it?

Presumably I should boot from the CD and take it from there?

Thanks

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

To truly start from scratch, I do the following: If you don't have a
boot floppy, get one he

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm (Windows 98 SE OEM ought to do)

Before you do the steps below, copy the files FDISK and FORMAT on
your present system to a stand-by floppy. I'm not sure all the
bootdisks from the site above will have both.

Run FDISK (choose Large HD support, i.e. FAT32), delete all existing
partitions, create a partition for Win98 (say 5GB or larger without
knowing what you have or what you're doing with it), set this
paritition as active, create another partition for files using the
rest of the HD space (I always create two primary partitions, not
extended partitions, even though error messages squawk about it I've
never had a problem), reboot, then FORMAT both partitions. Reboot
(actually may not need to yet if the CD is in the drive).

At this point you could reboot using the CD and let Windows take
install from the CD however I've found it faster and more reliable to
move the install files to the C: drive. Here's how:

* Put the CD in and reboot to the floppy
* Make a directory on the C: drive called Win98
* Copy all of the contents from the CD Win98 directory (probably
E:\Win98 if you created two primary partitions on the HD) to the
C:\Win98 directory
* Run Setup.exe from the C:\Win98 directory

Good luck,


Hi,

many thanks for your comprehensive advice.

However, I'm not sure I want to introduce the added complication of a
second partition. This isn't my main machine - it's an old laptop that
is mainly used by my wife on an occasional basis, and I would like
things to be as straightforward as possible.

Also, I'm not too concerned about the speed of the installation.

What would your cut-down installation advice be?

Something like insert boot floppy, run FDISK, then install from CD?


One more question, sorry.

I have a boot flopy. It contains FDISK, but not FORMAT - what is the
difference/respective purpose?


Actually, the present system doesn't appear to have a FORMAT file, so I
guess my previous question was a little 'academic'?


Regards

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk
  #15  
Old March 2nd 06, 06:27 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Updating Windows 98

Herb,

If you can stand by for ~12 hours, I'd be glad to accompany you through the
install procedure. I'm preoccupied until then (and maybe a bit beyond.)

There are good reasons for retaining your old system until your new one is
installed, and I think you'd have fun doing it. This being a laptop brings
in new considerations. Even if you've already stated these parameters:
--How large is your hard drive?
--How much free space does it have?
--Are you restricted to using a floppy *or* a CD drive, but not both at the
same time?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"Herb" HE@UK wrote in message
...
On 02.03.2006 09:09 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 07:19 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 06:26 UK Time, mdp wrote:
Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 00:54 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
My tendency would be the pessimistic one -- that it *isn't* "Full
Retail" and is instead OEM. You can verify this by simply asking
what the Product Key is, since the OEM product keys include "OEM" as
the second alphanumeric group.

But I should backtrack a bit... Really, unless your current Win98
system is recently installed and has *not* been brought up to date
with things like WMP 7 and IE 6 SP1 -- unless it's danged near a
virgin you would be *much* better off installing a clean copy. I
could go into all the reasons, but suffice it to say that
overinstalling, even upgrading, seldom fixes real problems. In the
scenario I warn against above, the issue is primarily that Setup
defaults to overwriting newer versions of system files with older
ones. There are a couple of safeguards against this, one being that
the default for this or that component happens to be to keep the
newer files, and the other called VCM -- Version Control Manager --
which allows the older versions to be installed but keeps backups of
the overwritten files that you can restore later. NEITHER of those
protective mechanisms works well, so you almost
certainly end up with a bit of DLL Hell (mismatched system files and
Registry entries) AND you haven't remedied any real problems other
than to get the benefits of upgrading -- maybe.

How large is your hard drive? It really isn't that big a deal to
clean install and move your personal files to the new system,
provided you have a bit of extra space. The biggest issue left is
installed programs for which you've lost the installation files. You
will end up with a *much* leaner, higher performing system in the
end.
Hi Gary,

thanks for your message.

The laptop we are talking about here obviously isn't my main

computer,
and come to think of it, it doesn't actually have that much stuff on
there, so I think I'll take your advice and install Win 98 SE from
scratch.
Just one last question: what's the best way of actually doing it?

Presumably I should boot from the CD and take it from there?

Thanks

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

To truly start from scratch, I do the following: If you don't have a
boot floppy, get one he

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm (Windows 98 SE OEM ought to do)

Before you do the steps below, copy the files FDISK and FORMAT on
your present system to a stand-by floppy. I'm not sure all the
bootdisks from the site above will have both.

Run FDISK (choose Large HD support, i.e. FAT32), delete all existing
partitions, create a partition for Win98 (say 5GB or larger without
knowing what you have or what you're doing with it), set this
paritition as active, create another partition for files using the
rest of the HD space (I always create two primary partitions, not
extended partitions, even though error messages squawk about it I've
never had a problem), reboot, then FORMAT both partitions. Reboot
(actually may not need to yet if the CD is in the drive).

At this point you could reboot using the CD and let Windows take
install from the CD however I've found it faster and more reliable to
move the install files to the C: drive. Here's how:

* Put the CD in and reboot to the floppy
* Make a directory on the C: drive called Win98
* Copy all of the contents from the CD Win98 directory (probably
E:\Win98 if you created two primary partitions on the HD) to the
C:\Win98 directory
* Run Setup.exe from the C:\Win98 directory

Good luck,

Hi,

many thanks for your comprehensive advice.

However, I'm not sure I want to introduce the added complication of a
second partition. This isn't my main machine - it's an old laptop that
is mainly used by my wife on an occasional basis, and I would like
things to be as straightforward as possible.

Also, I'm not too concerned about the speed of the installation.

What would your cut-down installation advice be?

Something like insert boot floppy, run FDISK, then install from CD?


One more question, sorry.

I have a boot flopy. It contains FDISK, but not FORMAT - what is the
difference/respective purpose?


Actually, the present system doesn't appear to have a FORMAT file, so I
guess my previous question was a little 'academic'?


Regards

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk



  #16  
Old March 2nd 06, 07:01 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Updating Windows 98

On 02.03.2006 17:27 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
Herb,

If you can stand by for ~12 hours, I'd be glad to accompany you through the
install procedure. I'm preoccupied until then (and maybe a bit beyond.)

There are good reasons for retaining your old system until your new one is
installed, and I think you'd have fun doing it. This being a laptop brings
in new considerations. Even if you've already stated these parameters:
--How large is your hard drive?
--How much free space does it have?
--Are you restricted to using a floppy *or* a CD drive, but not both at the
same time?


Hi Gary,

your offer is very kind, and indeed difficult to refuse :-)

The timescale of 12 hours and a bit from now would be perfect!

The hard drive is 6.03 GB, with 5.09 GB free, according to "My Computer".

I can use both the floppy drive and the CD drive simultaneously.

I look forward to hearing from you tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk
  #17  
Old March 3rd 06, 04:46 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Updating Windows 98

Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 09:09 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 07:19 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 06:26 UK Time, mdp wrote:
Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 00:54 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
My tendency would be the pessimistic one -- that it *isn't* "Full
Retail" and is instead OEM. You can verify this by simply asking
what the Product Key is, since the OEM product keys include
"OEM" as the second alphanumeric group.

But I should backtrack a bit... Really, unless your current Win98
system is recently installed and has *not* been brought up to
date with things like WMP 7 and IE 6 SP1 -- unless it's danged
near a virgin you would be *much* better off installing a clean
copy. I could go into all the reasons, but suffice it to say that
overinstalling, even upgrading, seldom fixes real problems. In
the scenario I warn against above, the issue is primarily that
Setup defaults to overwriting newer versions of system files
with older ones. There are a couple of safeguards against this,
one being that the default for this or that component happens to
be to keep the newer files, and the other called VCM -- Version
Control Manager -- which allows the older versions to be
installed but keeps backups of the overwritten files that you
can restore later. NEITHER of those protective mechanisms works
well, so you almost certainly end up with a bit of DLL Hell
(mismatched system files
and Registry entries) AND you haven't remedied any real problems
other than to get the benefits of upgrading -- maybe.

How large is your hard drive? It really isn't that big a deal to
clean install and move your personal files to the new system,
provided you have a bit of extra space. The biggest issue left is
installed programs for which you've lost the installation files.
You will end up with a *much* leaner, higher performing system
in the end.
Hi Gary,

thanks for your message.

The laptop we are talking about here obviously isn't my main
computer, and come to think of it, it doesn't actually have that
much stuff on there, so I think I'll take your advice and install
Win 98 SE from scratch.
Just one last question: what's the best way of actually doing it?

Presumably I should boot from the CD and take it from there?

Thanks

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

To truly start from scratch, I do the following: If you don't
have a boot floppy, get one he

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm (Windows 98 SE OEM ought to
do) Before you do the steps below, copy the files FDISK and FORMAT on
your present system to a stand-by floppy. I'm not sure all the
bootdisks from the site above will have both.

Run FDISK (choose Large HD support, i.e. FAT32), delete all
existing partitions, create a partition for Win98 (say 5GB or
larger without knowing what you have or what you're doing with
it), set this paritition as active, create another partition for
files using the rest of the HD space (I always create two primary
partitions, not extended partitions, even though error messages
squawk about it I've never had a problem), reboot, then FORMAT
both partitions. Reboot (actually may not need to yet if the CD
is in the drive). At this point you could reboot using the CD and let
Windows take
install from the CD however I've found it faster and more reliable
to move the install files to the C: drive. Here's how:

* Put the CD in and reboot to the floppy
* Make a directory on the C: drive called Win98
* Copy all of the contents from the CD Win98 directory (probably
E:\Win98 if you created two primary partitions on the HD) to the
C:\Win98 directory
* Run Setup.exe from the C:\Win98 directory

Good luck,

Hi,

many thanks for your comprehensive advice.

However, I'm not sure I want to introduce the added complication of
a second partition. This isn't my main machine - it's an old laptop
that is mainly used by my wife on an occasional basis, and I would
like things to be as straightforward as possible.

Also, I'm not too concerned about the speed of the installation.

What would your cut-down installation advice be?

Something like insert boot floppy, run FDISK, then install from CD?


One more question, sorry.

I have a boot flopy. It contains FDISK, but not FORMAT - what is the
difference/respective purpose?


Actually, the present system doesn't appear to have a FORMAT file, so
I guess my previous question was a little 'academic'?


Regards

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk


Since Mr. Terhune was kind enough to originally help you and is still
engaged, I'll defer to him. While multiple people might be able to achieve
the same objective, the steps might not look or be the same and subsequently
may cause more confusion. Besides, you can't go wrong with an MS MVP. The
procedure isn't complicated. It's really a matter of following each step
carefully. Good idea to print out the instructions and check them off one
by one. Good luck,


  #18  
Old March 3rd 06, 05:21 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Updating Windows 98

On 03.03.2006 03:46 UK Time, mdp wrote:
Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 09:09 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 07:19 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 06:26 UK Time, mdp wrote:
Herb wrote:
On 02.03.2006 00:54 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
My tendency would be the pessimistic one -- that it *isn't* "Full
Retail" and is instead OEM. You can verify this by simply asking
what the Product Key is, since the OEM product keys include
"OEM" as the second alphanumeric group.

But I should backtrack a bit... Really, unless your current Win98
system is recently installed and has *not* been brought up to
date with things like WMP 7 and IE 6 SP1 -- unless it's danged
near a virgin you would be *much* better off installing a clean
copy. I could go into all the reasons, but suffice it to say that
overinstalling, even upgrading, seldom fixes real problems. In
the scenario I warn against above, the issue is primarily that
Setup defaults to overwriting newer versions of system files
with older ones. There are a couple of safeguards against this,
one being that the default for this or that component happens to
be to keep the newer files, and the other called VCM -- Version
Control Manager -- which allows the older versions to be
installed but keeps backups of the overwritten files that you
can restore later. NEITHER of those protective mechanisms works
well, so you almost certainly end up with a bit of DLL Hell
(mismatched system files
and Registry entries) AND you haven't remedied any real problems
other than to get the benefits of upgrading -- maybe.

How large is your hard drive? It really isn't that big a deal to
clean install and move your personal files to the new system,
provided you have a bit of extra space. The biggest issue left is
installed programs for which you've lost the installation files.
You will end up with a *much* leaner, higher performing system
in the end.
Hi Gary,

thanks for your message.

The laptop we are talking about here obviously isn't my main
computer, and come to think of it, it doesn't actually have that
much stuff on there, so I think I'll take your advice and install
Win 98 SE from scratch.
Just one last question: what's the best way of actually doing it?

Presumably I should boot from the CD and take it from there?

Thanks

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk
To truly start from scratch, I do the following: If you don't
have a boot floppy, get one he

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm (Windows 98 SE OEM ought to
do) Before you do the steps below, copy the files FDISK and FORMAT on
your present system to a stand-by floppy. I'm not sure all the
bootdisks from the site above will have both.

Run FDISK (choose Large HD support, i.e. FAT32), delete all
existing partitions, create a partition for Win98 (say 5GB or
larger without knowing what you have or what you're doing with
it), set this paritition as active, create another partition for
files using the rest of the HD space (I always create two primary
partitions, not extended partitions, even though error messages
squawk about it I've never had a problem), reboot, then FORMAT
both partitions. Reboot (actually may not need to yet if the CD
is in the drive). At this point you could reboot using the CD and let
Windows take
install from the CD however I've found it faster and more reliable
to move the install files to the C: drive. Here's how:

* Put the CD in and reboot to the floppy
* Make a directory on the C: drive called Win98
* Copy all of the contents from the CD Win98 directory (probably
E:\Win98 if you created two primary partitions on the HD) to the
C:\Win98 directory
* Run Setup.exe from the C:\Win98 directory

Good luck,
Hi,

many thanks for your comprehensive advice.

However, I'm not sure I want to introduce the added complication of
a second partition. This isn't my main machine - it's an old laptop
that is mainly used by my wife on an occasional basis, and I would
like things to be as straightforward as possible.

Also, I'm not too concerned about the speed of the installation.

What would your cut-down installation advice be?

Something like insert boot floppy, run FDISK, then install from CD?
One more question, sorry.

I have a boot flopy. It contains FDISK, but not FORMAT - what is the
difference/respective purpose?

Actually, the present system doesn't appear to have a FORMAT file, so
I guess my previous question was a little 'academic'?


Regards

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk


Since Mr. Terhune was kind enough to originally help you and is still
engaged, I'll defer to him. While multiple people might be able to achieve
the same objective, the steps might not look or be the same and subsequently
may cause more confusion. Besides, you can't go wrong with an MS MVP. The
procedure isn't complicated. It's really a matter of following each step
carefully. Good idea to print out the instructions and check them off one
by one. Good luck,



OK, thanks for your help.

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk
  #19  
Old March 3rd 06, 07:37 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Updating Windows 98

OK, sorry I'm late.

If you have no interest in saving any of the data on the drive now, or have
backed it up to removable media, the instructions are simple. If you wish to
do anything more complicated, then some lessons in BootIt NG would be
required. The only other gotcha I forgot to touch upon this morning is to
ask what brand machine this is. From the sounds of it, it's nice and
generic, but if you really want to be safe post back with make & model
before proceeding. In this post I'll assume you're proceeding to reformat
the entire disk and then clean install the OEM CD.

1. If you don't already have one, make a Windows Startup floppy disk. IIRC,
you have one and couldn't find FORMAT.COM on it. That's because that program
is contained within the RAM drive that is used in this type of startup disk.
Most of the Startup floppy's files are contained within the RAM drive. A RAM
drive is an image that is loaded into RAM and which behaves as an operating
system. It takes the next letter after the hard disks and thus your
removable drives, CD, DVD, etc., get bumped up a letter.

2. Insert the Startup floppy, then reboot. Presumably the machine will boot
to the floppy disk. If not, come on back for suggestions. At the first menu,
choose "...with CDROM support..." Take note at the end of the messages where
it tells you the letter(s) of the CD drive(s). In the simplest systems, that
letter is E:\ so that's what I'll use, but it may not be the same in your
case.

2. At the A:\ prompt, run the following commands:

format c:
e: (or whatever your CD drive letter is)
setup

It's that simple, usually. Note the colons at the ends of the first two
commands.

3. I always choose Custom setup and uncheck everything. After installation
is complete, I use Add/Remove Programs to add those components I'm actually
going to use.

Any questions?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"Herb" HE@UK wrote in message ...
On 02.03.2006 17:27 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
Herb,

If you can stand by for ~12 hours, I'd be glad to accompany you through

the
install procedure. I'm preoccupied until then (and maybe a bit beyond.)

There are good reasons for retaining your old system until your new one

is
installed, and I think you'd have fun doing it. This being a laptop

brings
in new considerations. Even if you've already stated these parameters:
--How large is your hard drive?
--How much free space does it have?
--Are you restricted to using a floppy *or* a CD drive, but not both at

the
same time?


Hi Gary,

your offer is very kind, and indeed difficult to refuse :-)

The timescale of 12 hours and a bit from now would be perfect!

The hard drive is 6.03 GB, with 5.09 GB free, according to "My Computer".

I can use both the floppy drive and the CD drive simultaneously.

I look forward to hearing from you tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk



  #20  
Old March 3rd 06, 08:20 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.setup
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Updating Windows 98

"Herb" HE@UK wrote in message
...
On 03.03.2006 06:37 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
OK, sorry I'm late.


Only about 1 hour, but then again you said you might be :-)


And then I got called again!

I bought the laptop from novatech.co.uk and it has a Novatech sticker,
but it is in fact a Mitac model no. 6133

Is it safe to proceed?


Looks quite generic. I would assume it's safe to go.

2. Insert the Startup floppy, then reboot. Presumably the machine will

boot
to the floppy disk. If not, come on back for suggestions. At the first

menu,

I did a trial run yesterday, and it ignored the floppy, so I changed the
boot sequence in the BIOS so that it does boot from the floppy now.

However, I was a bit unsure about which option to choose, and perhaps I
better go back into the BIOS and tell you what options the machine
offers so that you can recommend one?


No reason to review. If you can boot to the floppy and access the CDROM from
there, you're good to go.

3. I always choose Custom setup and uncheck everything. After

installation

At what stage do you get this "Custom setup" choice?


Oh, it's one of the billboards a ways in. Has options for "Typical",
"Compact", something else and, "Custom" installation.

is complete, I use Add/Remove Programs to add those components I'm

actually
going to use.


Are you talking about Windows components or external software?


Windows Components. It's one of the tabs in Add/Remove Programs. I just
figure that the lighter the load, the easier the installation

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User



 




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