2nd hard drive, master or slave

Have an older Dell with small hard drive and plan to install a 2nd,
larger HD for file storage and leave the OS and programs right where they
are in/on the smaller existing HD.
Haven't done anything yet but look inside.
Which is the master and which is the slave?
Which one on the end of the IDE cable and which one in the middle?
Looks like I might have to move the original HD to the extra slot and
put the 2nd HD in the original slot to get the IDE connectors to line up
without having to put a tight twist in the cable.
Am I just asking for trouble?
Just keep using more CDs?

Dell Optiplex, Windows 98 SE, Pent II, 400 mhz, 6.5 G HD, solid,
stable, no problems except for file storage.

Thanks for any advice. Keith

Assign the original drive as the master and the new one as a slave. Unless
you use cable select for your jumper pin settings, it makes no difference
where the drives are connected on the ribbon cable. If you use cable
select, the master goes on the end and the slave in the middle. It makes no
difference where the drives are mounted in the case either.

--
Regards


Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo



"keith" wrote in message
...
Have an older Dell with small hard drive and plan to install a 2nd,
larger HD for file storage and leave the OS and programs right where they
are in/on the smaller existing HD.
Haven't done anything yet but look inside.
Which is the master and which is the slave?
Which one on the end of the IDE cable and which one in the middle?
Looks like I might have to move the original HD to the extra slot and
put the 2nd HD in the original slot to get the IDE connectors to line up
without having to put a tight twist in the cable.
Am I just asking for trouble?
Just keep using more CDs?

Dell Optiplex, Windows 98 SE, Pent II, 400 mhz, 6.5 G HD, solid,
stable, no problems except for file storage.

Thanks for any advice. Keith

It is a worthwhile endeavor to connect a second hard drive. You will be able to keep a safe full system backup on it that is bootable in case the original hard drive dies. Why wait until then to get it, like I did?

Is that a...?...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=541966
Dell Optiplex GX1 Desktop (400-MHz Pentium II, 128 MB RAM, 6.4 GB hard drive) + Dell 17" Monitor

What size is the 2nd hard drive you mean to get? Because you only have 6.4 GB now, it may be your BIOS has a GB barrier to overcome. See what you can figure about that at...
http://support.dell.com/support/topi...555&l=en&s=biz
DELL Support

I believe they may have a BIOS flash for you, if you haven't taken it yet. (But careful with that.) Also, careful with taking a drive overlay which also can overcome a GB barrier. A third option to overcome a GB barrier would be to install a Promise Ultra ATA Adapter Card.

Do you already know what GB hard drive your computer can take?


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"keith" wrote in message ...
| Have an older Dell with small hard drive and plan to install a 2nd,
| larger HD for file storage and leave the OS and programs right where they
| are in/on the smaller existing HD.
| Haven't done anything yet but look inside.
| Which is the master and which is the slave?
| Which one on the end of the IDE cable and which one in the middle?
| Looks like I might have to move the original HD to the extra slot and
| put the 2nd HD in the original slot to get the IDE connectors to line up
| without having to put a tight twist in the cable.
| Am I just asking for trouble?
| Just keep using more CDs?
|
| Dell Optiplex, Windows 98 SE, Pent II, 400 mhz, 6.5 G HD, solid,
| stable, no problems except for file storage.
|
| Thanks for any advice. Keith
|
|

"keith" wrote in message
...
Have an older Dell with small hard drive and plan to install a 2nd,
larger HD for file storage and leave the OS and programs right where they
are in/on the smaller existing HD.
Haven't done anything yet but look inside.
Which is the master and which is the slave?
Which one on the end of the IDE cable and which one in the middle?
Looks like I might have to move the original HD to the extra slot and
put the 2nd HD in the original slot to get the IDE connectors to line up
without having to put a tight twist in the cable.
Am I just asking for trouble?
Just keep using more CDs?

Dell Optiplex, Windows 98 SE, Pent II, 400 mhz, 6.5 G HD, solid,
stable, no problems except for file storage.

Thanks for any advice. Keith



Make it easy on yourself. Get an ide card w/ide cable and install
instructions. Install it, then, the bigger hard drive connected to that.
Should be installed as master (or master-alone if a WD) if connected to such
a ide card. This should fix any bios limiting capacity problem the Dell may
have with the bigger hard drive. Don't forget to install the driver for
windows for the ide card.

The ATA spec says the lone drive (master or slave) goes on the end, if slave
present, the master goes on the end. Whether cable select or not is of no
consequence as it does this configuration on its own using this jumper
option. Do not put a jumpered master on the stub (middle) of the ide ribbon
cable whether a jumpered slave is present on the cable or not. Newer ide
cables are color coded. The blue end connects to the ide card or
motherboard.
--
Jonny

Please provide references for your info. In my experience, if the drive is
jumpered Master, it can go on either drive connector, no problem.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"Jonny" wrote in message
...

The ATA spec says the lone drive (master or slave) goes on the end, if
slave present, the master goes on the end. Whether cable select or not is
of no consequence as it does this configuration on its own using this
jumper option. Do not put a jumpered master on the stub (middle) of the
ide ribbon cable whether a jumpered slave is present on the cable or not.
Newer ide cables are color coded. The blue end connects to the ide card
or motherboard.
--
Jonny

Hi Ron,
If that is true, then why do 40-pin, 80-wire IDE data cables come colour-coded and
marked specifically with motherboard, master, and slave connectors.....the master
connector being the one on the far end of the drive from the motherboard connector?
This is part of the spec for those cables, and does not just refer to Cable Select
drive jumpering option AFAIK.

moboblue=======slavegray===masterblack

You must use this type of cable with UDMA/ATA 66/100/133/150 drives or they will
only work at ATA 33 speeds.

They should be used with all drives, due to their improved reliability and signal
integrity resulting from reduced crosstalk.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
Assign the original drive as the master and the new one as a slave. Unless you
use cable select for your jumper pin settings, it makes no difference where the
drives are connected on the ribbon cable. If you use cable select, the master
goes on the end and the slave in the middle. It makes no difference where the
drives are mounted in the case either.

--
Regards


Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo



"keith" wrote in message
...
Have an older Dell with small hard drive and plan to install a 2nd,
larger HD for file storage and leave the OS and programs right where they
are in/on the smaller existing HD.
Haven't done anything yet but look inside.
Which is the master and which is the slave?
Which one on the end of the IDE cable and which one in the middle?
Looks like I might have to move the original HD to the extra slot and
put the 2nd HD in the original slot to get the IDE connectors to line up
without having to put a tight twist in the cable.
Am I just asking for trouble?
Just keep using more CDs?

Dell Optiplex, Windows 98 SE, Pent II, 400 mhz, 6.5 G HD, solid,
stable, no problems except for file storage.

Thanks for any advice. Keith

My understanding is that if you have only one drive, it is best to place it
at the end of the cable. This hardly nattered pre UDMA, but has become more
important as speeds increase. It is included in the ATA standard (I don't
know which version it first appeared) and the new high performance cables
are colour coded to help people get it right. Of course, that raises the
question of which connector do you use when you have only one drive
connected and it's configured as slave? My guess would be that it should
go at the end of the cable, despite the colour coding..

AFAIK if you have two drives on the cable it doesn't matter which way around
they are. The manufacturers will claim that it matters, because they have
to deal with issues when people add and remove drives and strange things
happen, and for that reason alone maybe it's a good habit to follow the
standard. In some cases, it becomes necessary to choose which slot the
drives should be installed in, to ensure that the cable can be connected how
it's supposed to without excessive twisting, and that can be a nuisance.
But with two drives plugged in I can't tell the difference between having
them one way around vs the other.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"glee" wrote in message
...
Hi Ron,
If that is true, then why do 40-pin, 80-wire IDE data cables come
colour-coded and marked specifically with motherboard, master, and slave
connectors.....the master connector being the one on the far end of the
drive from the motherboard connector? This is part of the spec for those
cables, and does not just refer to Cable Select drive jumpering option
AFAIK.

moboblue=======slavegray===masterblack

You must use this type of cable with UDMA/ATA 66/100/133/150 drives or
they will only work at ATA 33 speeds.

They should be used with all drives, due to their improved reliability and
signal integrity resulting from reduced crosstalk.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
Assign the original drive as the master and the new one as a slave.
Unless you use cable select for your jumper pin settings, it makes no
difference where the drives are connected on the ribbon cable. If you
use cable select, the master goes on the end and the slave in the middle.
It makes no difference where the drives are mounted in the case either.

--
Regards


Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo



"keith" wrote in message
...
Have an older Dell with small hard drive and plan to install a 2nd,
larger HD for file storage and leave the OS and programs right where
they
are in/on the smaller existing HD.
Haven't done anything yet but look inside.
Which is the master and which is the slave?
Which one on the end of the IDE cable and which one in the middle?
Looks like I might have to move the original HD to the extra slot
and
put the 2nd HD in the original slot to get the IDE connectors to line up
without having to put a tight twist in the cable.
Am I just asking for trouble?
Just keep using more CDs?

Dell Optiplex, Windows 98 SE, Pent II, 400 mhz, 6.5 G HD, solid,
stable, no problems except for file storage.

Thanks for any advice. Keith

Jeff Richards wrote:
My understanding is that if you have only one drive, it is best to place it
at the end of the cable. This hardly nattered pre UDMA, but has become more
important as speeds increase. It is included in the ATA standard (I don't
know which version it first appeared) and the new high performance cables
are colour coded to help people get it right. Of course, that raises the
question of which connector do you use when you have only one drive
connected and it's configured as slave? My guess would be that it should
go at the end of the cable, despite the colour coding..

Snicker, one drive connected and set as slave. I read that one drive
connected to a cable with 2 drive connectors shouldn't be used, although you can
use it they recommend a single drive cable so you don't have an open terminal
hanging loose which has a potential for problems.


AFAIK if you have two drives on the cable it doesn't matter which way around
they are. The manufacturers will claim that it matters, because they have
to deal with issues when people add and remove drives and strange things
happen, and for that reason alone maybe it's a good habit to follow the
standard. In some cases, it becomes necessary to choose which slot the
drives should be installed in, to ensure that the cable can be connected how
it's supposed to without excessive twisting, and that can be a nuisance.
But with two drives plugged in I can't tell the difference between having
them one way around vs the other.

As far as CS goes with 80 wire cables:
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCS-c.html
quote
To use cable select, both devices on the channel are set to the "cable select"
(CS) setting, usually by a special jumper. Then, a special cable is used. This
cable is very similar in most respects to the regular IDE/ATA cable, except for
the CSEL signal. CSEL is carried on wire #28 of the standard IDE/ATA cable, and
is grounded at the host's connector (the one that attaches to the motherboard or
controller). On a cable select cable, one of the connectors (the "master
connector") has pin #28 connected through to the cable, but the other (the
"slave connector") has an open circuit on that pin (no connection). When both
drives on the channel are set cable select, here's what happens:

Master: The device that is attached to the "master connector" sees the CSEL
signal as grounded, because its connector has pin #28 attached to the cable, and
the host's connector has that signal grounded. Seeing the "zero value"
(grounded), the device sets itself to operate as master (device 0).
Slave: The drive that is attached to the "slave connector" does not see the CSEL
signal as grounded, because its connector is not attached to the CSEL signal on
the cable. Seeing this "no connection", the device configures itself as a slave
(device 1).

If you switch the devices between the two connectors, they swap configuration,
the master becoming the slave and vice-versa.
/quote

--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

Hi Ron,
If that is true, then why do 40-pin, 80-wire IDE data cables come
colour-coded and marked specifically with motherboard, master, and slave
connectors.....the master connector being the one on the far end of the
drive from the motherboard connector? This is part of the spec for those
cables, and does not just refer to Cable Select drive jumpering option
AFAIK.

moboblue=======slavegray===masterblack

You must use this type of cable with UDMA/ATA 66/100/133/150 drives or
they will only work at ATA 33 speeds.

They should be used with all drives, due to their improved reliability and
signal integrity resulting from reduced crosstalk.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
Assign the original drive as the master and the new one as a slave.
Unless you use cable select for your jumper pin settings, it makes no
difference where the drives are connected on the ribbon cable. If you
use cable select, the master goes on the end and the slave in the middle.
It makes no difference where the drives are mounted in the case either.

--
Regards


Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo



"keith" wrote in message
...
Have an older Dell with small hard drive and plan to install a 2nd,
larger HD for file storage and leave the OS and programs right where
they
are in/on the smaller existing HD.
Haven't done anything yet but look inside.
Which is the master and which is the slave?
Which one on the end of the IDE cable and which one in the middle?
Looks like I might have to move the original HD to the extra slot
and
put the 2nd HD in the original slot to get the IDE connectors to line up
without having to put a tight twist in the cable.
Am I just asking for trouble?
Just keep using more CDs?

Dell Optiplex, Windows 98 SE, Pent II, 400 mhz, 6.5 G HD, solid,
stable, no problems except for file storage.

Thanks for any advice. Keith

Hi Glen

I suppose one should follow the color coded "rules" for cables you point
out; however, in practice, I see no difference when using the master/slave
jumper pin settings. (Note: While the drive connectors are the same, the
mobo connector is different than the other two.) As a matter of interest, I
have two 80 wire cables that are not specifically marked as you say: one is
not marked at all and the other says HD1 at the end and DR2 in the middle.
Both have the color coded connectors however.

--
Regards


Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo



"glee" wrote in message
...
Hi Ron,
If that is true, then why do 40-pin, 80-wire IDE data cables come
colour-coded and marked specifically with motherboard, master, and slave
connectors.....the master connector being the one on the far end of the
drive from the motherboard connector? This is part of the spec for those
cables, and does not just refer to Cable Select drive jumpering option
AFAIK.

moboblue=======slavegray===masterblack

You must use this type of cable with UDMA/ATA 66/100/133/150 drives or
they will only work at ATA 33 speeds.

They should be used with all drives, due to their improved reliability and
signal integrity resulting from reduced crosstalk.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
Assign the original drive as the master and the new one as a slave.
Unless you use cable select for your jumper pin settings, it makes no
difference where the drives are connected on the ribbon cable. If you
use cable select, the master goes on the end and the slave in the middle.
It makes no difference where the drives are mounted in the case either.

--
Regards


Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo



"keith" wrote in message
...
Have an older Dell with small hard drive and plan to install a 2nd,
larger HD for file storage and leave the OS and programs right where
they
are in/on the smaller existing HD.
Haven't done anything yet but look inside.
Which is the master and which is the slave?
Which one on the end of the IDE cable and which one in the middle?
Looks like I might have to move the original HD to the extra slot
and
put the 2nd HD in the original slot to get the IDE connectors to line up
without having to put a tight twist in the cable.
Am I just asking for trouble?
Just keep using more CDs?

Dell Optiplex, Windows 98 SE, Pent II, 400 mhz, 6.5 G HD, solid,
stable, no problems except for file storage.

Thanks for any advice. Keith

OK, thanks Ron, for the real-world clarification.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
Hi Glen

I suppose one should follow the color coded "rules" for cables you point out;
however, in practice, I see no difference when using the master/slave jumper pin
settings. (Note: While the drive connectors are the same, the mobo connector is
different than the other two.) As a matter of interest, I have two 80 wire cables
that are not specifically marked as you say: one is not marked at all and the
other says HD1 at the end and DR2 in the middle. Both have the color coded
connectors however.

--
Regards


Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo



"glee" wrote in message
...
Hi Ron,
If that is true, then why do 40-pin, 80-wire IDE data cables come colour-coded
and marked specifically with motherboard, master, and slave connectors.....the
master connector being the one on the far end of the drive from the motherboard
connector? This is part of the spec for those cables, and does not just refer to
Cable Select drive jumpering option AFAIK.

moboblue=======slavegray===masterblack

You must use this type of cable with UDMA/ATA 66/100/133/150 drives or they will
only work at ATA 33 speeds.

They should be used with all drives, due to their improved reliability and signal
integrity resulting from reduced crosstalk.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
Assign the original drive as the master and the new one as a slave. Unless you
use cable select for your jumper pin settings, it makes no difference where the
drives are connected on the ribbon cable. If you use cable select, the master
goes on the end and the slave in the middle. It makes no difference where the
drives are mounted in the case either.

--
Regards


Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo



"keith" wrote in message
...
Have an older Dell with small hard drive and plan to install a 2nd,
larger HD for file storage and leave the OS and programs right where they
are in/on the smaller existing HD.
Haven't done anything yet but look inside.
Which is the master and which is the slave?
Which one on the end of the IDE cable and which one in the middle?
Looks like I might have to move the original HD to the extra slot and
put the 2nd HD in the original slot to get the IDE connectors to line up
without having to put a tight twist in the cable.
Am I just asking for trouble?
Just keep using more CDs?

Dell Optiplex, Windows 98 SE, Pent II, 400 mhz, 6.5 G HD, solid,
stable, no problems except for file storage.

Thanks for any advice. Keith