New CCleaner Out

Mike M wrote:
I hear there is going to be a new, "improved"
WGA next Tuesday. I won't download it but how many millions will?

Do you mean to replace that released last Tuesday which in itself was an
update for one the week before.

Yes, or so I heard on xp general.

OK, I exaggerate maybe slightly 25
April and before that 15 March.

Nevertheless I still don't understand what is going on here. There has
been extensive discussion of both WPA and WGA over the years since WPA
first reared its ugly head with the release of XP back in 2001. Such
discussions have often been very uncomplimentary to Microsoft but AFAIK
Microsoft have rarely if ever previously chosen to censor such
discussions other than perhaps where clear details of how to crack
either WPA or WGA have been posted. Changes have however occurred in
recent months as to how the newsgroups are managed and perhaps what we
are now seeing is a result of those changes, if so IMO I feel this is
not in Microsoft's best interests.

WGA is not in Microsoft's best interests, nor is WPA for that matter.
The pirates keep right on cracking and the paying customers have to put
up with the flaws in the program, a program that in no way, shape or
form benefits the end user. To give an example, I reinstalled XP the
other day on one of my computers. The NIC wasn't connecting to the
Internet properly so I uninstalled the drivers for the NIC a couple of
times. I rebooted and was asked to activate. It went through online. The
next three times I rebooted, it asked me to activate again because
"substantial hardware had been changed" or something to that effect and,
fortunately, it went through online. The NIC still didn't work, so I
disabled the onboard NIC and put a ReatTech ether card in the PCI slot.
I was NOT asked to activate after rebooting.

Did it ever occur to MS that users want to, gasp!, USE their computers,
not be on the fight piracy team for MS or have to unravel the flaws that
WPA and WGA create?

It doesn't look good for Gates to be over in Africa being Mr. Kindness
when he screws the very same people who made him rich so he can be Mr
Philanthropist.

A

System Restore works great in ME, XP and Vista!!

--


Will Denny
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
Please reply to the News Groups

benefit the end user in any way.

Have you tried System Restore?

No profanity, no abuse, just my opinion, one I consider to be true.

A

Personally I have no objection to the use of WPA, in fact I see many many
benefits and no or few disadvantages. As for WGA, that is different and
for some reason bites some in the butt and others not at all nevertheless
I see no reason why Microsoft should not protect its intellectual property
and if they choose to do this my means of WGA then that is their decision
to make. If it causes some customers to move to using other products then
they should do so and Microsoft's loss.

As I have already posted it would appear that any post containing the
string "aka @ [notme] masked and anonymous.org" (spaces added
intentionally) is being removed from the server regardless of who makes
that post or the content of the post. I haven't a clue as to what you
might have done that might have initially triggered such action but that
it is happening is, as I have already stated, quite disgraceful. I doubt
that the trigger was the post you quoted but then again since I'm not the
one doing the filtering so I wouldn't know.
--
Mike Maltby



A wrote:


This post was censored:

Andrew Martin wrote:
We install WGA on dozens of computers every week but I have a
customer here who's pc will not install WGA without freezing the
entire pc.

Everything has been perfectly working on this pc until automatic
updates tried to install the latest WGA but now it will not install no
matter how (automatic updates / activex control, etc). The whole
system hangs, we can't even hit cntl-alt-del or click anything with
the mouse.

The Windows is definately legit, purchased from an MS authorized
vendor by us, not that this would make a difference anyway. Even if
it was not legit, it should just pop up the notification box and not
cause the whole system to hang. We just can't get it to do anything.
I've tried turning off all startup programs and system services, even
tried in safe mode with networking. Nothing works.

I tried the WGA diagnostic tool...it locks up too.

If anyone has an idea on this one let me know...I'm frustrated
beyond words. Thanks,
Andrew

What's even more pathetic is that WGA ONLY benefits MS and does not
benefit the end user in any way.

Have you tried System Restore?

No profanity, no abuse, just my opinion, one I consider to be true.

A

Do you mean to replace that released last Tuesday which in itself
was an update for one the week before.

Yes, or so I heard on xp general.

So you believe everything you read there? If so then you do surprise me.
That doesn't mean there won't be a further update to WGA next Tuesday
(patch Tuesday) and why this should worry you escapes me especially if
this update addresses some of the problems that are being reported or do I
take it to mean that you prefer to use what might appear to be a broken
product for some?

WGA is not in Microsoft's best interests, nor is WPA for that matter.

We clearly differ. I have no problem with WPA and it is clearly in
Microsoft's interests to take what steps it can to protect its
intellectual property and also for those that use their products. What
problem exactly do you have in being asked to activate a system? If it's
genuine surely none? By WPA and WGA protecting your interests I mean
ensuring that the system and software you have is genuine and legal and
that the unique PIDs issued/licensed to you for your use are not being
used by others.

It appears you have a problem in grasping all this, too much sun and
sangria perhaps? g If so care to share?
--
Mike Maltby




A wrote:

Mike M wrote:
I hear there is going to be a new, "improved"
WGA next Tuesday. I won't download it but how many millions will?

Do you mean to replace that released last Tuesday which in itself
was an update for one the week before.

Yes, or so I heard on xp general.

OK, I exaggerate maybe slightly 25
April and before that 15 March.

Nevertheless I still don't understand what is going on here. There
has been extensive discussion of both WPA and WGA over the years
since WPA first reared its ugly head with the release of XP back in
2001. Such discussions have often been very uncomplimentary to
Microsoft but AFAIK Microsoft have rarely if ever previously chosen
to censor such discussions other than perhaps where clear details of
how to crack either WPA or WGA have been posted. Changes have
however occurred in recent months as to how the newsgroups are
managed and perhaps what we are now seeing is a result of those
changes, if so IMO I feel this is not in Microsoft's best interests.

WGA is not in Microsoft's best interests, nor is WPA for that matter.
The pirates keep right on cracking and the paying customers have to
put up with the flaws in the program, a program that in no way, shape
or form benefits the end user. To give an example, I reinstalled XP
the other day on one of my computers. The NIC wasn't connecting to the
Internet properly so I uninstalled the drivers for the NIC a couple of
times. I rebooted and was asked to activate. It went through online.
The next three times I rebooted, it asked me to activate again because
"substantial hardware had been changed" or something to that effect
and, fortunately, it went through online. The NIC still didn't work,
so I disabled the onboard NIC and put a ReatTech ether card in the
PCI slot. I was NOT asked to activate after rebooting.

Did it ever occur to MS that users want to, gasp!, USE their
computers, not be on the fight piracy team for MS or have to unravel
the flaws that WPA and WGA create?

It doesn't look good for Gates to be over in Africa being Mr. Kindness
when he screws the very same people who made him rich so he can be Mr
Philanthropist.

A

Mike M wrote:
Do you mean to replace that released last Tuesday which in itself
was an update for one the week before.

Yes, or so I heard on xp general.

So you believe everything you read there?

Of course not, but it came from several MVPs so it is reasonable to
assume that it's true.

If so then you do surprise
me. That doesn't mean there won't be a further update to WGA next
Tuesday (patch Tuesday) and why this should worry you escapes me
especially if this update addresses some of the problems that are being
reported or do I take it to mean that you prefer to use what might
appear to be a broken product for some?

I prefer not to have to prove to MS that I am not a thief over and over
again with the possibility that the WGA program will create problems
that I will have to deal with instead of using my computer for the
reasons I bought it. I also don't appreciate a program installed on my
computer that is rated "critical" when it is only "critical" for MS and
I cannot remove the program from my computer without A LOT of hassle and
stress.


WGA is not in Microsoft's best interests, nor is WPA for that matter.

We clearly differ. I have no problem with WPA and it is clearly in
Microsoft's interests to take what steps it can to protect its
intellectual property and also for those that use their products.

But it doesn't work. Pirated XPs are all over the place. Playing cat and
mouse with crackers is exactly what the crackers want, a challenge.

What
problem exactly do you have in being asked to activate a system?

Four times? It's a hassle and stressful.

If
it's genuine surely none?

Four times for changing a NIC driver? It's a hassle and stressful. I
also like to upgrade my computer a lot, which means more activation
which doesn't protect me one iota and is only a hassle and stressful.

By WPA and WGA protecting your interests I
mean ensuring that the system and software you have is genuine and legal
and that the unique PIDs issued/licensed to you for your use are not
being used by others.

I know mine is legit because I know where I buy my XPs. I don't buy XPs
that have PIDs that customers can copy off the sides of desktops or the
bottoms of laptops. I use generic OEM XPs.

It appears you have a problem in grasping all this, too much sun and
sangria perhaps? g If so care to share?

Oh, I understand you. I just disagree and I stopped drinking over five
years ago; I had already had my share for this lifetime and the old
liver has told me, in no uncertain terms, no more! :-)

A

Of course not, but it came from several MVPs so it is reasonable to
assume that it's true.

You amaze me. :-) Whilst I've received an MVP award on a number of
occasions I learned very early on that the title MVP doesn't necessarily
mean one knows or understands what is happening at Microsoft especially
when it comes to what may or may not happen at some future time. Often we
are the very last to know what is happening and find out through reading
the newsgroups and the technical web in the same way as other users. On
this occasion they may well be correct and that yet another WGA update is
due for release next week (it is patch Tuesday) but I don't feel that
simply because someone with an MVP award says something is going to happen
necessarily means that it will.

Four times for changing a NIC driver? It's a hassle and stressful.

It seems to me that your and my definition of stress differ considerably.
However changing just a NIC driver shouldn't have triggered re-activation
unless other components originally present when activated have also since
been removed. A NIC represents two votes out of eleven or twelve in total
with re-activation only designed to kick in when several have changed.
Changing a NIC driver though should not have lost any votes, I do this
regularly on my boxes, what would have lost the votes is either removing
the NIC or disabling it in Dev.Man.

Talking of which I see that on this box using Licenturion's XPInfo I've
apparently "lost" my RAM size, IDE controller and scsi host votes despite
the only hardware changes since it was activated being that I increased
RAM from 1GB to 2GB which I guess just goes in part to support your view.

I know mine is legit because I know where I buy my XPs.

But does Microsoft? Not without WGA or similar, and I feel it not
unreasonable to restrict access to the WU/MU sites and the Download Centre
to those who are able to demonstrate that they have a legitimate copy of
the product concerned.

the old liver has told me, in no uncertain terms, no more! :-)

Oh dear! In truth I don't drink that much but nevertheless I suspect my
liver would tell me the same if I were to start drinking too much.
--
Mike Maltby



A wrote:

Mike M wrote:
Do you mean to replace that released last Tuesday which in itself
was an update for one the week before.

Yes, or so I heard on xp general.

So you believe everything you read there?

Of course not, but it came from several MVPs so it is reasonable to
assume that it's true.

If so then you do surprise
me. That doesn't mean there won't be a further update to WGA next
Tuesday (patch Tuesday) and why this should worry you escapes me
especially if this update addresses some of the problems that are
being reported or do I take it to mean that you prefer to use what
might appear to be a broken product for some?

I prefer not to have to prove to MS that I am not a thief over and
over again with the possibility that the WGA program will create
problems that I will have to deal with instead of using my computer
for the reasons I bought it. I also don't appreciate a program
installed on my computer that is rated "critical" when it is only
"critical" for MS and I cannot remove the program from my computer
without A LOT of hassle and stress.


WGA is not in Microsoft's best interests, nor is WPA for that
matter.

We clearly differ. I have no problem with WPA and it is clearly in
Microsoft's interests to take what steps it can to protect its
intellectual property and also for those that use their products.

But it doesn't work. Pirated XPs are all over the place. Playing cat
and mouse with crackers is exactly what the crackers want, a
challenge.
What
problem exactly do you have in being asked to activate a system?

Four times? It's a hassle and stressful.

If
it's genuine surely none?

Four times for changing a NIC driver? It's a hassle and stressful. I
also like to upgrade my computer a lot, which means more activation
which doesn't protect me one iota and is only a hassle and stressful.

By WPA and WGA protecting your interests I
mean ensuring that the system and software you have is genuine and
legal and that the unique PIDs issued/licensed to you for your use
are not being used by others.

I know mine is legit because I know where I buy my XPs. I don't buy
XPs that have PIDs that customers can copy off the sides of desktops
or the bottoms of laptops. I use generic OEM XPs.

It appears you have a problem in grasping all this, too much sun and
sangria perhaps? g If so care to share?

Oh, I understand you. I just disagree and I stopped drinking over five
years ago; I had already had my share for this lifetime and the old
liver has told me, in no uncertain terms, no more! :-)

A

I've just come from XP General and the last two posts of Alias are no
longer on the server but your replies are, which I usually just put down
to the servers being out of synch when I go to get posts g
Joan

Will Denny wrote:
"Mike M" wrote in message
...
Will Denny wrote:

This thread hasn't been deleted - yet :-))

No,

But any post containing the text "aka @ [notme] masked and
anonymous.org" or that was posted from "aka @ [notme] masked and
anonymous.org" has been deleted. (Added spaces intentional). In a
word, disgraceful. --
Mike Maltby


I agree - it's very bad.

Will

Mike M wrote:
Of course not, but it came from several MVPs so it is reasonable to
assume that it's true.

You amaze me. :-) Whilst I've received an MVP award on a number of
occasions I learned very early on that the title MVP doesn't necessarily
mean one knows or understands what is happening at Microsoft especially
when it comes to what may or may not happen at some future time. Often
we are the very last to know what is happening and find out through
reading the newsgroups and the technical web in the same way as other
users. On this occasion they may well be correct and that yet another
WGA update is due for release next week (it is patch Tuesday) but I
don't feel that simply because someone with an MVP award says something
is going to happen necessarily means that it will.

The MVPs in question are reliable. I wasn't saying it was Carey

Four times for changing a NIC driver? It's a hassle and stressful.

It seems to me that your and my definition of stress differ
considerably. However changing just a NIC driver shouldn't have
triggered re-activation unless other components originally present when
activated have also since been removed. A NIC represents two votes out
of eleven or twelve in total with re-activation only designed to kick in
when several have changed. Changing a NIC driver though should not have
lost any votes, I do this regularly on my boxes, what would have lost
the votes is either removing the NIC or disabling it in Dev.Man.

Sorry, I disabled it, rebooted to enable it. A NIC gets three votes out
of ten is my understanding.

Talking of which I see that on this box using Licenturion's XPInfo I've
apparently "lost" my RAM size, IDE controller and scsi host votes
despite the only hardware changes since it was activated being that I
increased RAM from 1GB to 2GB which I guess just goes in part to support
your view.

I know mine is legit because I know where I buy my XPs.

But does Microsoft?

If they want to know, they can come look at my receipt. All they have to
do is make an appointment. I see no reason why I should be obligated to
prove I am not a thief.

Not without WGA or similar, and I feel it not
unreasonable to restrict access to the WU/MU sites and the Download
Centre to those who are able to demonstrate that they have a legitimate
copy of the product concerned.

Fact is that MS made billions with their preXP OSs. Fact is that
millions of XP pirated versions are being used today. WGA and WPA only
inconvenience paying customers while the crackers just laugh.

the old liver has told me, in no uncertain terms, no more! :-)

Oh dear! In truth I don't drink that much but nevertheless I suspect my
liver would tell me the same if I were to start drinking too much.

I prefer chocolate nowadays ;-)

A

A NIC gets three votes
out of ten is my understanding.

Total votes are twelve with the NIC if present counting for 3. Where a
system has no NIC total votes are I believe 10 with the "no NIC" counting
for some reason as one rather than three. Reactivation is only triggered
if system changes result in only six or less of the original votes being
still present.

If they want to know, they can come look at my receipt. All they have
to do is make an appointment. I see no reason why I should be
obligated to prove I am not a thief.

I'm sure that's not a problem provided you accept that you won't be
entitled to use their web sites until you do so. A receipt is no
guarantee of a genuine copy, there is more than one rogue system builder
that has installed XP on systems they've sold using an illegally obtained
volume licence or keygen. Much simpler in my mind to use WGA.

Fact is that MS made billions with their preXP OSs.

And the relevance of this is precisely what? It has no bearing to the
subject.

Fact is that
millions of XP pirated versions are being used today. WGA and WPA only
inconvenience paying customers while the crackers just laugh.

That's simply cr$p but then for some peculiar reason known only to
yourself you've got an axe to grind and let that apparently obscure your
judgement and reasoning. I've got four XP systems here, all multi-boot, I
also have two laptops (both used by my daughters) and maintain a large
number of other systems running XP and not one has ever had the slightest
problem with either WPA or WGA. What you appear to have difficulty in
understanding is that WPA has in the past, now and in the future, stopped
a significant number of users from using stolen or otherwise illegal
copies of XP and MS Office. No one, least of all Microsoft, has ever
claimed that WPA will stop those determined to use cracks or keygens. If
you think that then you are on your own there.
--
Mike Maltby



A wrote:

Mike M wrote:
Of course not, but it came from several MVPs so it is reasonable to
assume that it's true.

You amaze me. :-) Whilst I've received an MVP award on a number of
occasions I learned very early on that the title MVP doesn't
necessarily mean one knows or understands what is happening at
Microsoft especially when it comes to what may or may not happen at
some future time. Often we are the very last to know what is
happening and find out through reading the newsgroups and the
technical web in the same way as other users. On this occasion they
may well be correct and that yet another WGA update is due for
release next week (it is patch Tuesday) but I don't feel that simply
because someone with an MVP award says something is going to happen
necessarily means that it will.

The MVPs in question are reliable. I wasn't saying it was Carey

Four times for changing a NIC driver? It's a hassle and stressful.

It seems to me that your and my definition of stress differ
considerably. However changing just a NIC driver shouldn't have
triggered re-activation unless other components originally present
when activated have also since been removed. A NIC represents two
votes out of eleven or twelve in total with re-activation only
designed to kick in when several have changed. Changing a NIC driver
though should not have lost any votes, I do this regularly on my
boxes, what would have lost the votes is either removing the NIC or
disabling it in Dev.Man.

Sorry, I disabled it, rebooted to enable it. A NIC gets three votes
out of ten is my understanding.

Talking of which I see that on this box using Licenturion's XPInfo
I've apparently "lost" my RAM size, IDE controller and scsi host
votes despite the only hardware changes since it was activated being
that I increased RAM from 1GB to 2GB which I guess just goes in part
to support your view.

I know mine is legit because I know where I buy my XPs.

But does Microsoft?

If they want to know, they can come look at my receipt. All they have
to do is make an appointment. I see no reason why I should be
obligated to prove I am not a thief.

Not without WGA or similar, and I feel it not
unreasonable to restrict access to the WU/MU sites and the Download
Centre to those who are able to demonstrate that they have a
legitimate copy of the product concerned.

Fact is that MS made billions with their preXP OSs. Fact is that
millions of XP pirated versions are being used today. WGA and WPA only
inconvenience paying customers while the crackers just laugh.

the old liver has told me, in no uncertain terms, no more! :-)

Oh dear! In truth I don't drink that much but nevertheless I
suspect my liver would tell me the same if I were to start drinking
too much.

I prefer chocolate nowadays ;-)

A

Cheers Will.

I asked my uncle how cricket on the radio was acceptable - I mean, I can
just about accept football on the radio, largely because the commentator's
excitement, and that of the crowd, can trigger one's own, but how can that
happen with cricket? So he cites commentators talking about the cake some
listener sent in! I daresay you know who I mean, and isn't he dead now?

Anyway, how're you keeping (howzat!)? Well, I trust!

Shane


Will Denny wrote:
Hi Shane

Yes we got David 'bye' the short and curlies last time :-)) Yup all
the cricket is on Sky - with highlights on C5.


"Shane" wrote in message
...
Hi Will,

So, correct me if I'm wrong.

Internationals and the Ashes are on Sky, with highlight shows on
Channel 5, and the rest is on Radio 5.

My uncle wants to know. I thought of you, when he asked! Personally
my only interest in cricket is whether 'we' beat 'David'.


Shane