Need Help With Defrag

I tried to defrag my second hard drive and part way thru it stopped with the
message that I didn't have enough memory and that I should shut down
something and try again. Since I had shut down everything except Explore and
Sys tray, I think I just have too many files of my wife's sewing, quilting,
embroidery etc. Once before when this happened I just deleted some of the
files, defragged, and then reloaded the files.
My problem is that my C drive went from 5g to 19g and I cannot find where
defrag put the extra 14g. I didn't even realize that it copied my D drive to
my C drive during the defrag.
Question is, how do I find what defrag did to my C drive while trying to
defrag my D drive and how do I get rid of it?

Thanks for your help.
Phil

If you had included the exact error message, I could have provided a more
precise answer. Go to the link below and be sure to review the articles
that are referred to. See the defrag troubleshooter located he
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/defrag.html


--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
I tried to defrag my second hard drive and part way thru it stopped with
the
message that I didn't have enough memory and that I should shut down
something and try again. Since I had shut down everything except Explore
and
Sys tray, I think I just have too many files of my wife's sewing,
quilting,
embroidery etc. Once before when this happened I just deleted some of the
files, defragged, and then reloaded the files.
My problem is that my C drive went from 5g to 19g and I cannot find where
defrag put the extra 14g. I didn't even realize that it copied my D drive
to
my C drive during the defrag.
Question is, how do I find what defrag did to my C drive while trying to
defrag my D drive and how do I get rid of it?

Thanks for your help.
Phil

Ron, I had already looked at your site but it does not say anything about
getting rid of the 14g added to my C drive.
Will it be okay to delete some data from my D drive and try again? Or will
this cause more problems?
I am hoping that if I try again with less data on the D drive that it will
overwrite the file it created and then delete it when it finishes. Yes, no,
maybe?
Thanks
Phil

"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
If you had included the exact error message, I could have provided a more
precise answer. Go to the link below and be sure to review the articles
that are referred to. See the defrag troubleshooter located he
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/defrag.html


--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
I tried to defrag my second hard drive and part way thru it stopped with
the
message that I didn't have enough memory and that I should shut down
something and try again. Since I had shut down everything except Explore
and
Sys tray, I think I just have too many files of my wife's sewing,
quilting,
embroidery etc. Once before when this happened I just deleted some of
the
files, defragged, and then reloaded the files.
My problem is that my C drive went from 5g to 19g and I cannot find
where
defrag put the extra 14g. I didn't even realize that it copied my D
drive
to
my C drive during the defrag.
Question is, how do I find what defrag did to my C drive while trying to
defrag my D drive and how do I get rid of it?

Thanks for your help.
Phil

You need to provide the exact error message and provide complete details on
the 14 gb: how big is the HD, what are you using to determine the amount of
gb, etc.

--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
Ron, I had already looked at your site but it does not say anything about
getting rid of the 14g added to my C drive.
Will it be okay to delete some data from my D drive and try again? Or will
this cause more problems?
I am hoping that if I try again with less data on the D drive that it will
overwrite the file it created and then delete it when it finishes. Yes,
no,
maybe?
Thanks
Phil

"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
If you had included the exact error message, I could have provided a
more
precise answer. Go to the link below and be sure to review the articles
that are referred to. See the defrag troubleshooter located he
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/defrag.html


--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
I tried to defrag my second hard drive and part way thru it stopped
with
the
message that I didn't have enough memory and that I should shut down
something and try again. Since I had shut down everything except
Explore
and
Sys tray, I think I just have too many files of my wife's sewing,
quilting,
embroidery etc. Once before when this happened I just deleted some of
the
files, defragged, and then reloaded the files.
My problem is that my C drive went from 5g to 19g and I cannot find
where
defrag put the extra 14g. I didn't even realize that it copied my D
drive
to
my C drive during the defrag.
Question is, how do I find what defrag did to my C drive while trying
to
defrag my D drive and how do I get rid of it?

Thanks for your help.
Phil

First drive is 38g of which C is 30g for operating system, programs and some
data and E is Compaq System save of 8g.
When I defragged this C drive it was 5.34G used.

2nd drive is also 38G and D drive is all data with no active programs. At
the start of defrag it was 16.7g.
Defrag of D drive got to the point of reading files and stopped with the
standard message of "Your computer does not have enough free memory to
defrag the drive. Quit one or more programs". I did not copy it but this is
the message that was given. I had closed everything except explore and sys
tray.
I am thinking that the defrag problem is due to having many small files on
the drive (over 300,000 sewing,quilting,embroidery,etc). This was a problem
once before when it was over 450,000.

When I go to my computer or use exploring and click on "C properties" it
indicates that C is now 19.4g. This increase of 14g is the result of the
defrag because nothing else was run. Does the defrag program create a file
of what is to be defragged and then delete it if it runs to completion? If
not, what could have created this increase and how do I find it and get rid
of it?
Thanks
Phil







"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
You need to provide the exact error message and provide complete details
on
the 14 gb: how big is the HD, what are you using to determine the amount
of
gb, etc.

--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
Ron, I had already looked at your site but it does not say anything
about
getting rid of the 14g added to my C drive.
Will it be okay to delete some data from my D drive and try again? Or
will
this cause more problems?
I am hoping that if I try again with less data on the D drive that it
will
overwrite the file it created and then delete it when it finishes. Yes,
no,
maybe?
Thanks
Phil

"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
If you had included the exact error message, I could have provided a
more
precise answer. Go to the link below and be sure to review the
articles
that are referred to. See the defrag troubleshooter located he
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/defrag.html


--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
I tried to defrag my second hard drive and part way thru it stopped
with
the
message that I didn't have enough memory and that I should shut down
something and try again. Since I had shut down everything except
Explore
and
Sys tray, I think I just have too many files of my wife's sewing,
quilting,
embroidery etc. Once before when this happened I just deleted some
of
the
files, defragged, and then reloaded the files.
My problem is that my C drive went from 5g to 19g and I cannot find
where
defrag put the extra 14g. I didn't even realize that it copied my D
drive
to
my C drive during the defrag.
Question is, how do I find what defrag did to my C drive while
trying
to
defrag my D drive and how do I get rid of it?

Thanks for your help.
Phil

First things first. Read this article:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=229154

I think you will find that the cluster size does not match the partition
size. Find any file sized 1 kb or less on the D: partition, right click,
properties, and see how much space the file takes on the drive (this is the
cluster size--see chart below). This is indicated in the size area by
listing the actual size and the size used. 4096 bytes = 4 kb and so on.
When the improper cluster size is used for the size of the partition, you
get the error message you saw. What you have to do is adjust the cluster
size and without completely starting over, you will need a partitioning
program to do so. I use:

BootIt Next Generation is available from: http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/
and it does partitioning, makes a compressed image, does many other
partitioning chores and is a boot manager. It is not quite as easy to use
as Partition Magic but it is half the cost and has more features. Unlike
the crippled PMagic demo, BING is a *full function* demo you can try for
FREE for 30 days. The web site has a lot of support articles.

Once you get this straightened out, run scandisk and defrag again on both
drives. If you still have missing space, post back.

Cluster size is the amount of space used to store a file. For example, if
the cluster size is 16 kb, a 1 kb file will take up 16 kb of space on a hard
drive. The 15 kb that is lost is known as slack space. The cluster size
used by the system is determined by the size of the partition. Here is a
chart that will give approximate space lost for an average user.

.. Partition Size Cluster Typical Amount
Size of Wasted Space
Fat 32
512 MB - 8191 MB 4K 4%
8192 MB - 16383 MB 8K 10%
16384 MB - 32767 MB 16K 25%
Larger than 32768 MB 32K 40%

You will note that by having such a large partition, you are wasting tons of
space if you have lots of smaller files.
--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
First drive is 38g of which C is 30g for operating system, programs and
some
data and E is Compaq System save of 8g.
When I defragged this C drive it was 5.34G used.

2nd drive is also 38G and D drive is all data with no active programs. At
the start of defrag it was 16.7g.
Defrag of D drive got to the point of reading files and stopped with the
standard message of "Your computer does not have enough free memory to
defrag the drive. Quit one or more programs". I did not copy it but this
is
the message that was given. I had closed everything except explore and sys
tray.
I am thinking that the defrag problem is due to having many small files on
the drive (over 300,000 sewing,quilting,embroidery,etc). This was a
problem
once before when it was over 450,000.

When I go to my computer or use exploring and click on "C properties" it
indicates that C is now 19.4g. This increase of 14g is the result of the
defrag because nothing else was run. Does the defrag program create a file
of what is to be defragged and then delete it if it runs to completion? If
not, what could have created this increase and how do I find it and get
rid
of it?
Thanks
Phil







"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
You need to provide the exact error message and provide complete details
on
the 14 gb: how big is the HD, what are you using to determine the
amount
of
gb, etc.

--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
Ron, I had already looked at your site but it does not say anything
about
getting rid of the 14g added to my C drive.
Will it be okay to delete some data from my D drive and try again? Or
will
this cause more problems?
I am hoping that if I try again with less data on the D drive that it
will
overwrite the file it created and then delete it when it finishes.
Yes,
no,
maybe?
Thanks
Phil

"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
If you had included the exact error message, I could have provided a
more
precise answer. Go to the link below and be sure to review the
articles
that are referred to. See the defrag troubleshooter located he
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/defrag.html


--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
I tried to defrag my second hard drive and part way thru it
stopped
with
the
message that I didn't have enough memory and that I should shut
down
something and try again. Since I had shut down everything except
Explore
and
Sys tray, I think I just have too many files of my wife's sewing,
quilting,
embroidery etc. Once before when this happened I just deleted some
of
the
files, defragged, and then reloaded the files.
My problem is that my C drive went from 5g to 19g and I cannot
find
where
defrag put the extra 14g. I didn't even realize that it copied my
D
drive
to
my C drive during the defrag.
Question is, how do I find what defrag did to my C drive while
trying
to
defrag my D drive and how do I get rid of it?

Thanks for your help.
Phil

I had read the article but it did not sink in until I got your explanation.
Thanks for helping an inexperienced old man.
A test showed that 1kb,4kb or 6kb files each use 32768bytes.

"You are running Windows on a very large hard disk that has a default
Windows cluster size of 32 KB"
If I read that right,what I should do is create some 10G partitions with 8kb
clusters on the D drive for storing her data files.

Will Partition Magic let me change cluster size and/or partition the drive
into several partitions without losing the data on the drive? I have
Partition Magic but have never used it.
Thanks again.
Phil

"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
First things first. Read this article:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=229154

I think you will find that the cluster size does not match the partition
size. Find any file sized 1 kb or less on the D: partition, right click,
properties, and see how much space the file takes on the drive (this is
the
cluster size--see chart below). This is indicated in the size area by
listing the actual size and the size used. 4096 bytes = 4 kb and so on.
When the improper cluster size is used for the size of the partition, you
get the error message you saw. What you have to do is adjust the cluster
size and without completely starting over, you will need a partitioning
program to do so. I use:

BootIt Next Generation is available from:
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/
and it does partitioning, makes a compressed image, does many other
partitioning chores and is a boot manager. It is not quite as easy to use
as Partition Magic but it is half the cost and has more features. Unlike
the crippled PMagic demo, BING is a *full function* demo you can try for
FREE for 30 days. The web site has a lot of support articles.

Once you get this straightened out, run scandisk and defrag again on both
drives. If you still have missing space, post back.

Cluster size is the amount of space used to store a file. For example,
if
the cluster size is 16 kb, a 1 kb file will take up 16 kb of space on a
hard
drive. The 15 kb that is lost is known as slack space. The cluster size
used by the system is determined by the size of the partition. Here is a
chart that will give approximate space lost for an average user.

. Partition Size Cluster Typical Amount
Size of Wasted Space
Fat 32
512 MB - 8191 MB 4K 4%
8192 MB - 16383 MB 8K 10%
16384 MB - 32767 MB 16K 25%
Larger than 32768 MB 32K 40%

You will note that by having such a large partition, you are wasting tons
of
space if you have lots of smaller files.
--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
First drive is 38g of which C is 30g for operating system, programs and
some
data and E is Compaq System save of 8g.
When I defragged this C drive it was 5.34G used.

2nd drive is also 38G and D drive is all data with no active programs.
At
the start of defrag it was 16.7g.
Defrag of D drive got to the point of reading files and stopped with the
standard message of "Your computer does not have enough free memory to
defrag the drive. Quit one or more programs". I did not copy it but this
is
the message that was given. I had closed everything except explore and
sys
tray.
I am thinking that the defrag problem is due to having many small files
on
the drive (over 300,000 sewing,quilting,embroidery,etc). This was a
problem
once before when it was over 450,000.

When I go to my computer or use exploring and click on "C properties" it
indicates that C is now 19.4g. This increase of 14g is the result of the
defrag because nothing else was run. Does the defrag program create a
file
of what is to be defragged and then delete it if it runs to completion?
If
not, what could have created this increase and how do I find it and get
rid
of it?
Thanks
Phil







"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
You need to provide the exact error message and provide complete
details
on
the 14 gb: how big is the HD, what are you using to determine the
amount
of
gb, etc.

--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
Ron, I had already looked at your site but it does not say anything
about
getting rid of the 14g added to my C drive.
Will it be okay to delete some data from my D drive and try again?
Or
will
this cause more problems?
I am hoping that if I try again with less data on the D drive that
it
will
overwrite the file it created and then delete it when it finishes.
Yes,
no,
maybe?
Thanks
Phil

"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
If you had included the exact error message, I could have provided
a
more
precise answer. Go to the link below and be sure to review the
articles
that are referred to. See the defrag troubleshooter located he
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/defrag.html


--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
I tried to defrag my second hard drive and part way thru it
stopped
with
the
message that I didn't have enough memory and that I should shut
down
something and try again. Since I had shut down everything except
Explore
and
Sys tray, I think I just have too many files of my wife's
sewing,
quilting,
embroidery etc. Once before when this happened I just deleted
some
of
the
files, defragged, and then reloaded the files.
My problem is that my C drive went from 5g to 19g and I cannot
find
where
defrag put the extra 14g. I didn't even realize that it copied
my
D
drive
to
my C drive during the defrag.
Question is, how do I find what defrag did to my C drive while
trying
to
defrag my D drive and how do I get rid of it?

Thanks for your help.
Phil

Yes it will. The cluster size is correct for the size of the partition so
it appears you will have to make smaller partitions. What you will
probably want to do is start at the back of the partition and make a
slightly less then 8 gb (your choice on size--just keep it under 8 gb for
maximum filing efficiency) partition by resizing the large one. When that
is done, transfer about 7 gb of data (if necessary) to the new partition so
you can then resize the original one and create another new partition.

--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
I had read the article but it did not sink in until I got your
explanation.
Thanks for helping an inexperienced old man.
A test showed that 1kb,4kb or 6kb files each use 32768bytes.

"You are running Windows on a very large hard disk that has a default
Windows cluster size of 32 KB"
If I read that right,what I should do is create some 10G partitions with
8kb
clusters on the D drive for storing her data files.

Will Partition Magic let me change cluster size and/or partition the drive
into several partitions without losing the data on the drive? I have
Partition Magic but have never used it.
Thanks again.
Phil

"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
First things first. Read this article:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=229154

I think you will find that the cluster size does not match the partition
size. Find any file sized 1 kb or less on the D: partition, right
click,
properties, and see how much space the file takes on the drive (this is
the
cluster size--see chart below). This is indicated in the size area by
listing the actual size and the size used. 4096 bytes = 4 kb and so on.
When the improper cluster size is used for the size of the partition,
you
get the error message you saw. What you have to do is adjust the
cluster
size and without completely starting over, you will need a partitioning
program to do so. I use:

BootIt Next Generation is available from:
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/
and it does partitioning, makes a compressed image, does many other
partitioning chores and is a boot manager. It is not quite as easy to
use
as Partition Magic but it is half the cost and has more features.
Unlike
the crippled PMagic demo, BING is a *full function* demo you can try for
FREE for 30 days. The web site has a lot of support articles.

Once you get this straightened out, run scandisk and defrag again on
both
drives. If you still have missing space, post back.

Cluster size is the amount of space used to store a file. For example,
if
the cluster size is 16 kb, a 1 kb file will take up 16 kb of space on a
hard
drive. The 15 kb that is lost is known as slack space. The cluster
size
used by the system is determined by the size of the partition. Here is
a
chart that will give approximate space lost for an average user.

. Partition Size Cluster Typical Amount
Size of Wasted Space
Fat 32
512 MB - 8191 MB 4K 4%
8192 MB - 16383 MB 8K 10%
16384 MB - 32767 MB 16K 25%
Larger than 32768 MB 32K 40%

You will note that by having such a large partition, you are wasting
tons
of
space if you have lots of smaller files.
--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
First drive is 38g of which C is 30g for operating system, programs
and
some
data and E is Compaq System save of 8g.
When I defragged this C drive it was 5.34G used.

2nd drive is also 38G and D drive is all data with no active programs.
At
the start of defrag it was 16.7g.
Defrag of D drive got to the point of reading files and stopped with
the
standard message of "Your computer does not have enough free memory to
defrag the drive. Quit one or more programs". I did not copy it but
this
is
the message that was given. I had closed everything except explore and
sys
tray.
I am thinking that the defrag problem is due to having many small
files
on
the drive (over 300,000 sewing,quilting,embroidery,etc). This was a
problem
once before when it was over 450,000.

When I go to my computer or use exploring and click on "C properties"
it
indicates that C is now 19.4g. This increase of 14g is the result of
the
defrag because nothing else was run. Does the defrag program create a
file
of what is to be defragged and then delete it if it runs to
completion?
If
not, what could have created this increase and how do I find it and
get
rid
of it?
Thanks
Phil







"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
You need to provide the exact error message and provide complete
details
on
the 14 gb: how big is the HD, what are you using to determine the
amount
of
gb, etc.

--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
Ron, I had already looked at your site but it does not say
anything
about
getting rid of the 14g added to my C drive.
Will it be okay to delete some data from my D drive and try again?
Or
will
this cause more problems?
I am hoping that if I try again with less data on the D drive that
it
will
overwrite the file it created and then delete it when it finishes.
Yes,
no,
maybe?
Thanks
Phil

"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
If you had included the exact error message, I could have
provided
a
more
precise answer. Go to the link below and be sure to review the
articles
that are referred to. See the defrag troubleshooter located
he
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/defrag.html


--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
I tried to defrag my second hard drive and part way thru it
stopped
with
the
message that I didn't have enough memory and that I should
shut
down
something and try again. Since I had shut down everything
except
Explore
and
Sys tray, I think I just have too many files of my wife's
sewing,
quilting,
embroidery etc. Once before when this happened I just deleted
some
of
the
files, defragged, and then reloaded the files.
My problem is that my C drive went from 5g to 19g and I cannot
find
where
defrag put the extra 14g. I didn't even realize that it copied
my
D
drive
to
my C drive during the defrag.
Question is, how do I find what defrag did to my C drive while
trying
to
defrag my D drive and how do I get rid of it?

Thanks for your help.
Phil

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:34:04 -0400, "her hubby"
scribbled some thoughts:

NOTE: Best viewed in a fixed pitch font

I had read the article but it did not sink in until I got your explanation.
Thanks for helping an inexperienced old man.
A test showed that 1kb,4kb or 6kb files each use 32768bytes.

"You are running Windows on a very large hard disk that has a default
Windows cluster size of 32 KB"
If I read that right,what I should do is create some 10G partitions with 8kb
clusters on the D drive for storing her data files.

Will Partition Magic let me change cluster size and/or partition the drive
into several partitions without losing the data on the drive? I have
Partition Magic but have never used it.
Thanks again.
Phil

I use Acronis Partition Expert and while it is possible to
change the cluster size, I've read it is generally best to
stick with the defaults. If space warrants, I'd squeeze the
partitions even smaller, namely 8GB drives (7.98GB). On my
120GB drive (114GB usable), I divided it into as many
partitions which would bring it down to at least 4KB
clusters, so I experimented until I found that certain
number which was the max for the cluster size, then I copy
pasted for each partion, I wound up with 14 drives of equal
size and 2GB unallocated. Hey, I like things equal. :-)


Partition Size Fat 32 NTFS

1GB to 2GB 4KB 2KB
2GB to 8GB 4KB 4KB
8GB to 16GB 8KB 4KB
16GB to 32GB 16KB 4KB
32GB to 2TB 32KB 4KB


I've no experience with Partition Magic, but from what I
gather, there will be no loss to data.

Here is my structure, for you to consider.

---------- C:\Windows\Temp\Labels.txt
Volume in drive C is PROGRAMS
Volume in drive D is DOS
Volume in drive E is DATA
Volume in drive F is MAIL-USENET
Volume in drive G is FONTS
Volume in drive H is GRAPHICS
Volume in drive I is VIDEO
Volume in drive J is MUSIC
Volume in drive K is SOFTWARE
Volume in drive L is BACKUPS
Volume in drive M is NEWSGROUPS (downloaded attachments
awaiting final disposition)
Volume in drive N is FAMILY
Volume in drive O is FRIENDS
Volume in drive P is PERSONAL


--
Sincerely, | (©) (©)
| ------ooo--(_)--ooo------
Andrew H. Carter | /// \\\
d(-_-)b |

Thanks for your help.I was able to defrag the D drive,get Partition Magic
loaded, and created my first 7.9G partition. Once I get more data moved I
will keep going on new smaller partitions. It makes a big difference in the
space used.As one example, one file went from 131072bytes down to 16384
bytes.
Thanks
Phil


"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
Yes it will. The cluster size is correct for the size of the partition so
it appears you will have to make smaller partitions. What you will
probably want to do is start at the back of the partition and make a
slightly less then 8 gb (your choice on size--just keep it under 8 gb for
maximum filing efficiency) partition by resizing the large one. When that
is done, transfer about 7 gb of data (if necessary) to the new partition
so
you can then resize the original one and create another new partition.

--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
I had read the article but it did not sink in until I got your
explanation.
Thanks for helping an inexperienced old man.
A test showed that 1kb,4kb or 6kb files each use 32768bytes.

"You are running Windows on a very large hard disk that has a default
Windows cluster size of 32 KB"
If I read that right,what I should do is create some 10G partitions with
8kb
clusters on the D drive for storing her data files.

Will Partition Magic let me change cluster size and/or partition the
drive
into several partitions without losing the data on the drive? I have
Partition Magic but have never used it.
Thanks again.
Phil

"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
First things first. Read this article:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=229154

I think you will find that the cluster size does not match the
partition
size. Find any file sized 1 kb or less on the D: partition, right
click,
properties, and see how much space the file takes on the drive (this
is
the
cluster size--see chart below). This is indicated in the size area by
listing the actual size and the size used. 4096 bytes = 4 kb and so
on.
When the improper cluster size is used for the size of the partition,
you
get the error message you saw. What you have to do is adjust the
cluster
size and without completely starting over, you will need a
partitioning
program to do so. I use:

BootIt Next Generation is available from:
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/
and it does partitioning, makes a compressed image, does many other
partitioning chores and is a boot manager. It is not quite as easy to
use
as Partition Magic but it is half the cost and has more features.
Unlike
the crippled PMagic demo, BING is a *full function* demo you can try
for
FREE for 30 days. The web site has a lot of support articles.

Once you get this straightened out, run scandisk and defrag again on
both
drives. If you still have missing space, post back.

Cluster size is the amount of space used to store a file. For
example,
if
the cluster size is 16 kb, a 1 kb file will take up 16 kb of space on
a
hard
drive. The 15 kb that is lost is known as slack space. The cluster
size
used by the system is determined by the size of the partition. Here
is
a
chart that will give approximate space lost for an average user.

. Partition Size Cluster Typical Amount
Size of Wasted
Space
Fat 32
512 MB - 8191 MB 4K 4%
8192 MB - 16383 MB 8K 10%
16384 MB - 32767 MB 16K 25%
Larger than 32768 MB 32K 40%

You will note that by having such a large partition, you are wasting
tons
of
space if you have lots of smaller files.
--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
First drive is 38g of which C is 30g for operating system, programs
and
some
data and E is Compaq System save of 8g.
When I defragged this C drive it was 5.34G used.

2nd drive is also 38G and D drive is all data with no active
programs.
At
the start of defrag it was 16.7g.
Defrag of D drive got to the point of reading files and stopped with
the
standard message of "Your computer does not have enough free memory
to
defrag the drive. Quit one or more programs". I did not copy it but
this
is
the message that was given. I had closed everything except explore
and
sys
tray.
I am thinking that the defrag problem is due to having many small
files
on
the drive (over 300,000 sewing,quilting,embroidery,etc). This was a
problem
once before when it was over 450,000.

When I go to my computer or use exploring and click on "C
properties"
it
indicates that C is now 19.4g. This increase of 14g is the result of
the
defrag because nothing else was run. Does the defrag program create
a
file
of what is to be defragged and then delete it if it runs to
completion?
If
not, what could have created this increase and how do I find it and
get
rid
of it?
Thanks
Phil







"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
You need to provide the exact error message and provide complete
details
on
the 14 gb: how big is the HD, what are you using to determine the
amount
of
gb, etc.

--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
Ron, I had already looked at your site but it does not say
anything
about
getting rid of the 14g added to my C drive.
Will it be okay to delete some data from my D drive and try
again?
Or
will
this cause more problems?
I am hoping that if I try again with less data on the D drive
that
it
will
overwrite the file it created and then delete it when it
finishes.
Yes,
no,
maybe?
Thanks
Phil

"Ron Badour" wrote in message
...
If you had included the exact error message, I could have
provided
a
more
precise answer. Go to the link below and be sure to review
the
articles
that are referred to. See the defrag troubleshooter located
he
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/defrag.html


--
Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP for W98
Tips: http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

"her hubby" wrote in message
...
I tried to defrag my second hard drive and part way thru it
stopped
with
the
message that I didn't have enough memory and that I should
shut
down
something and try again. Since I had shut down everything
except
Explore
and
Sys tray, I think I just have too many files of my wife's
sewing,
quilting,
embroidery etc. Once before when this happened I just
deleted
some
of
the
files, defragged, and then reloaded the files.
My problem is that my C drive went from 5g to 19g and I
cannot
find
where
defrag put the extra 14g. I didn't even realize that it
copied
my
D
drive
to
my C drive during the defrag.
Question is, how do I find what defrag did to my C drive
while
trying
to
defrag my D drive and how do I get rid of it?

Thanks for your help.
Phil