Updating Windows 98

My first laptop (bought in 1998 I think) is somewhat underpowered, but
otherwise perfectly functional. My wife uses it occasionally, and I
would like to keep it updated as much as possible, particularly
regarding security.

It has Windows 98 first edition installed. I have the original Windows
98 CD, and I also have the German version of Windows 98 second edition,
but not the English version.

Am I right in assuming that the OS would get confused if I tried to
upgrade the English version of Windows 98 first edition with the German
version of Windows 98 second edition?

How can I upgrade to Windows 98 second edition without removing the
English version of the OS?

Thank you.

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

You're right -- the language versions don't mix, and there's no way that I
know of to do what you want. You'd have to either reformat the existing
system and reinstall in German from scratch, or if the drive is large
enough, you can use a partitioning tool to shrink the existing partition,
slide it to the end of the drive, then create a new one for the German
Second Edition -- or spend $50 for a copy of Second Edition in English.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"Herb" HE@UK wrote in message
...
My first laptop (bought in 1998 I think) is somewhat underpowered, but
otherwise perfectly functional. My wife uses it occasionally, and I
would like to keep it updated as much as possible, particularly
regarding security.

It has Windows 98 first edition installed. I have the original Windows
98 CD, and I also have the German version of Windows 98 second edition,
but not the English version.

Am I right in assuming that the OS would get confused if I tried to
upgrade the English version of Windows 98 first edition with the German
version of Windows 98 second edition?

How can I upgrade to Windows 98 second edition without removing the
English version of the OS?

Thank you.

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

On 27.02.2006 20:27 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You're right -- the language versions don't mix, and there's no way that I
know of to do what you want. You'd have to either reformat the existing
system and reinstall in German from scratch, or if the drive is large
enough, you can use a partitioning tool to shrink the existing partition,
slide it to the end of the drive, then create a new one for the German
Second Edition -- or spend $50 for a copy of Second Edition in English.


Thanks - I'll see how I get on with my eBay bid for a Win98 SE CD :-)

Regards

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

On 28.02.2006 05:03 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 27.02.2006 20:27 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You're right -- the language versions don't mix, and there's no way
that I
know of to do what you want. You'd have to either reformat the existing
system and reinstall in German from scratch, or if the drive is large
enough, you can use a partitioning tool to shrink the existing partition,
slide it to the end of the drive, then create a new one for the German
Second Edition -- or spend $50 for a copy of Second Edition in English.


Thanks - I'll see how I get on with my eBay bid for a Win98 SE CD :-)

Having now obtained a Win98 SE CD, I keep going round in circles with
the upgrade/installation process.

When I insert the CD with Win98 running, having performed some system
checks, the system eventually says it already has an OS installed and
can't upgrade from the CD, or words to that effect.

During another attempt, an application called "suwin" generated a fatal
error...

I also tried in Safe Mode, but then the CD is not recognised.

I also tried by booting from the CD, but then I get a warning to the
effect that it would resemble a complete re-install, or words to that
effect.

I had hoped I could upgrade without losing the existing user
data/software installations, but I'm beginning to wonder...

Perhaps someone could enlighten me about the correct procedure for
upgrading from Windows 98 to Windows 98 SE?

Thank you.

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

Try this:

1. Boot to a Windows Emergency Boot Disk/Startup Disk. If you don't have
one, use the appropriate tab in Add/Remove Programs. Choose "...with CDROM
Support." and pay attention toward the end of the boot where it tells you
what letter your CD drive is now, since it will be different. Let's assume
it's now E:\ drive.

2. At the A:\ prompt, run the following commands:

e:
cd win98
setup

See if that helps.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"Herb" HE@UK wrote in message
...
On 28.02.2006 05:03 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 27.02.2006 20:27 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You're right -- the language versions don't mix, and there's no way
that I
know of to do what you want. You'd have to either reformat the existing
system and reinstall in German from scratch, or if the drive is large
enough, you can use a partitioning tool to shrink the existing
partition,
slide it to the end of the drive, then create a new one for the German
Second Edition -- or spend $50 for a copy of Second Edition in English.


Thanks - I'll see how I get on with my eBay bid for a Win98 SE CD :-)

Having now obtained a Win98 SE CD, I keep going round in circles with
the upgrade/installation process.

When I insert the CD with Win98 running, having performed some system
checks, the system eventually says it already has an OS installed and
can't upgrade from the CD, or words to that effect.

During another attempt, an application called "suwin" generated a fatal
error...

I also tried in Safe Mode, but then the CD is not recognised.

I also tried by booting from the CD, but then I get a warning to the
effect that it would resemble a complete re-install, or words to that
effect.

I had hoped I could upgrade without losing the existing user
data/software installations, but I'm beginning to wonder...

Perhaps someone could enlighten me about the correct procedure for
upgrading from Windows 98 to Windows 98 SE?

Thank you.

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

Oops! You have an OEM CD. That can only be clean-installed. My sincerest
apologies that I didn't remember this before. Ask anyone, my memory is shot
these days. Only a Full Retail Windows 98 Second Edition CD can update an
earlier version of Windows. Or, the "Updates" CD can update a Win98 (only)
to Win98SE. Unfortunately, both of the latter CDs are hard to come by. The
OEM version is by far the most commonly available.

I can't recall if anyone has come up with a decent workaround. Seems to me
some have. You might want to also ask in the General Discussion group. I
suggest a new post asking how to use an OEM 98SE CD to upgrade an in-place
WIn98 system, and cross-post it to here and the Gen_Discussion group.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"Herb" HE@UK wrote in message
...
On 28.02.2006 05:03 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 27.02.2006 20:27 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
You're right -- the language versions don't mix, and there's no way
that I
know of to do what you want. You'd have to either reformat the existing
system and reinstall in German from scratch, or if the drive is large
enough, you can use a partitioning tool to shrink the existing
partition,
slide it to the end of the drive, then create a new one for the German
Second Edition -- or spend $50 for a copy of Second Edition in English.


Thanks - I'll see how I get on with my eBay bid for a Win98 SE CD :-)

Having now obtained a Win98 SE CD, I keep going round in circles with
the upgrade/installation process.

When I insert the CD with Win98 running, having performed some system
checks, the system eventually says it already has an OS installed and
can't upgrade from the CD, or words to that effect.

During another attempt, an application called "suwin" generated a fatal
error...

I also tried in Safe Mode, but then the CD is not recognised.

I also tried by booting from the CD, but then I get a warning to the
effect that it would resemble a complete re-install, or words to that
effect.

I had hoped I could upgrade without losing the existing user
data/software installations, but I'm beginning to wonder...

Perhaps someone could enlighten me about the correct procedure for
upgrading from Windows 98 to Windows 98 SE?

Thank you.

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

On 01.03.2006 21:33 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
Oops! You have an OEM CD. That can only be clean-installed. My sincerest
apologies that I didn't remember this before. Ask anyone, my memory is shot
these days. Only a Full Retail Windows 98 Second Edition CD can update an
earlier version of Windows. Or, the "Updates" CD can update a Win98 (only)
to Win98SE. Unfortunately, both of the latter CDs are hard to come by. The
OEM version is by far the most commonly available.

I can't recall if anyone has come up with a decent workaround. Seems to me
some have. You might want to also ask in the General Discussion group. I
suggest a new post asking how to use an OEM 98SE CD to upgrade an in-place
WIn98 system, and cross-post it to here and the Gen_Discussion group.


Thanks for the explanation - yes, I now see that it says "Microsoft
Windows98 for PCs without Windows" on the CD!

I'll send a new message as you suggested.

Regards

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

On 02.03.2006 00:16 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 01.03.2006 21:33 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
Oops! You have an OEM CD. That can only be clean-installed. My sincerest
apologies that I didn't remember this before. Ask anyone, my memory is
shot
these days. Only a Full Retail Windows 98 Second Edition CD can update an
earlier version of Windows. Or, the "Updates" CD can update a Win98
(only)
to Win98SE. Unfortunately, both of the latter CDs are hard to come by.
The
OEM version is by far the most commonly available.

I can't recall if anyone has come up with a decent workaround. Seems
to me
some have. You might want to also ask in the General Discussion group. I
suggest a new post asking how to use an OEM 98SE CD to upgrade an
in-place
WIn98 system, and cross-post it to here and the Gen_Discussion group.


Thanks for the explanation - yes, I now see that it says "Microsoft
Windows98 for PCs without Windows" on the CD!

I'll send a new message as you suggested.


One more question before I send a new message:

What exactly should I look out for on the CD?

For example, this one
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Microsoft-Wind... cmdZViewItem
says "Full Retail", but is also says "for PCs without Windows", so
presumably I would end up in the same situation?

Thanks

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

My tendency would be the pessimistic one -- that it *isn't* "Full Retail"
and is instead OEM. You can verify this by simply asking what the Product
Key is, since the OEM product keys include "OEM" as the second alphanumeric
group.

But I should backtrack a bit... Really, unless your current Win98 system is
recently installed and has *not* been brought up to date with things like
WMP 7 and IE 6 SP1 -- unless it's danged near a virgin you would be *much*
better off installing a clean copy. I could go into all the reasons, but
suffice it to say that overinstalling, even upgrading, seldom fixes real
problems. In the scenario I warn against above, the issue is primarily that
Setup defaults to overwriting newer versions of system files with older
ones. There are a couple of safeguards against this, one being that the
default for this or that component happens to be to keep the newer files,
and the other called VCM -- Version Control Manager -- which allows the
older versions to be installed but keeps backups of the overwritten files
that you can restore later.

NEITHER of those protective mechanisms works well, so you almost certainly
end up with a bit of DLL Hell (mismatched system files and Registry entries)
AND you haven't remedied any real problems other than to get the benefits of
upgrading -- maybe.

How large is your hard drive? It really isn't that big a deal to clean
install and move your personal files to the new system, provided you have a
bit of extra space. The biggest issue left is installed programs for which
you've lost the installation files. You will end up with a *much* leaner,
higher performing system in the end.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"Herb" HE@UK wrote in message
...
On 02.03.2006 00:16 UK Time, Herb wrote:
On 01.03.2006 21:33 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
Oops! You have an OEM CD. That can only be clean-installed. My
sincerest
apologies that I didn't remember this before. Ask anyone, my memory is
shot
these days. Only a Full Retail Windows 98 Second Edition CD can update
an
earlier version of Windows. Or, the "Updates" CD can update a Win98
(only)
to Win98SE. Unfortunately, both of the latter CDs are hard to come by.
The
OEM version is by far the most commonly available.

I can't recall if anyone has come up with a decent workaround. Seems
to me
some have. You might want to also ask in the General Discussion group.
I
suggest a new post asking how to use an OEM 98SE CD to upgrade an
in-place
WIn98 system, and cross-post it to here and the Gen_Discussion group.


Thanks for the explanation - yes, I now see that it says "Microsoft
Windows98 for PCs without Windows" on the CD!

I'll send a new message as you suggested.


One more question before I send a new message:

What exactly should I look out for on the CD?

For example, this one

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Microsoft-Wind... cmdZViewItem
says "Full Retail", but is also says "for PCs without Windows", so
presumably I would end up in the same situation?

Thanks

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk

On 02.03.2006 00:54 UK Time, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
My tendency would be the pessimistic one -- that it *isn't* "Full Retail"
and is instead OEM. You can verify this by simply asking what the Product
Key is, since the OEM product keys include "OEM" as the second alphanumeric
group.

But I should backtrack a bit... Really, unless your current Win98 system is
recently installed and has *not* been brought up to date with things like
WMP 7 and IE 6 SP1 -- unless it's danged near a virgin you would be *much*
better off installing a clean copy. I could go into all the reasons, but
suffice it to say that overinstalling, even upgrading, seldom fixes real
problems. In the scenario I warn against above, the issue is primarily that
Setup defaults to overwriting newer versions of system files with older
ones. There are a couple of safeguards against this, one being that the
default for this or that component happens to be to keep the newer files,
and the other called VCM -- Version Control Manager -- which allows the
older versions to be installed but keeps backups of the overwritten files
that you can restore later.

NEITHER of those protective mechanisms works well, so you almost certainly
end up with a bit of DLL Hell (mismatched system files and Registry entries)
AND you haven't remedied any real problems other than to get the benefits of
upgrading -- maybe.

How large is your hard drive? It really isn't that big a deal to clean
install and move your personal files to the new system, provided you have a
bit of extra space. The biggest issue left is installed programs for which
you've lost the installation files. You will end up with a *much* leaner,
higher performing system in the end.


Hi Gary,

thanks for your message.

The laptop we are talking about here obviously isn't my main computer,
and come to think of it, it doesn't actually have that much stuff on
there, so I think I'll take your advice and install Win 98 SE from scratch.

Just one last question: what's the best way of actually doing it?

Presumably I should boot from the CD and take it from there?

Thanks

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslation.co.uk