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Tablet machines and W9X?



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 18th 12, 05:08 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
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Posts: 1,562
Default Tablet machines and W9X?

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

(AFAIK even today's tablets all still use a backlight)


I tried to think this through, and the best shot I have is that edge lighting
might work best, allowing different lamps to be fitted to the edge of a
machine's flat box. A clear strip to block gubbins, but allow light to get to
the diffuser, distributor, wave pipe, whatever it's called. Big ones ought to
be viable. To safely dissipate a LOT of light energy all they have to do is
spread it efficiently, which is the aim anyway...

That just leaves a need for creative invention of safe bright linear light
sources. There are several ways, including possible a fast pulsed fibre laser
(fast pulses broaden bandwidth, hence broadband visible laser emission). A
thing like that might be extremely efficient, and compact. Sunlight seems
like a good idea but it's very hot, and very directional. If it can
efficiently be gathered and converted and sent into the light-input slot on
the edge of a machine, so much the better...
  #12  
Old March 18th 12, 05:15 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
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Posts: 1,562
Default Tablet machines and W9X?

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

All-in-one units with CRTs did exist - I think
the Osborne 1 may even have run on batteries, it was certainly heavy
enough! - the best example possibly being the original Amstrad word
processor


And the early Apple Mac's. Fugliest hardware anyone could call a computer,
in their day. No wonder Apple go for arty aesthetics these days, they had
a LOT to live down.

What gets me though is what happened when LCD's came in, and hard disks got
plentiful and easy to use. I'd have thought that a CPU, with attacked hard
disk, and the VDU, all shared the same need to be sat firmly in place, while
keyboards were shoved around as required, like books. So WHY separate the CPU
from the VDU and attach it to the keyboard?! This is basically the logic
behind the laptop. Apart from keeping the weight in the base, it made little
sense, and that was founded on a false premise anyway. How many people really
use a laptop, in their lap, hunched over ruining their spines for hours on
end? Most people can find a table, even on a train. And on a plane or bus
there isn't room for anythign that isn't all in one peice anyway. No room to
even lift a lid if has a big screen in it. I susp[ect that as much as
anything has made people realise that laptops are a bit stupid, and made them
all want phones and tablets. But what a SLOW awakening!
  #13  
Old March 18th 12, 05:22 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
J. P. Gilliver (John)
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Posts: 1,554
Default Tablet machines and W9X?

In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

What I could never understand is why display manufacture (with the
exception of whatever it is e-readers use) has persisted in fighting
ambient light with brighter and brighter backlights: an LCD panel is
basically transmissive, so I couldn't (still can't) understand why the
option of using a diffuser (even a sheet of paper!), so that you could
actually _use_ ambient light, has never been offered.


Indeed. I tried to work out one, but never found a display cheap AND good
enough to warrant the effort and risk. It may be easier than I thought
though. Basically, take the back off, as for accessing backlight tubes to
replace them. Leave it off, placing a bright diffusing panel behind there to
reflect sunlight up through the panel, and shroud the top so it doesn't
overheat, and to prevent bright distractions around the periphert from makign
it useless. The arrangement would be messy though. Either that, or neat,
small, and useless because it won't gather enough light to evenly backlight
the screen.

[]
No, get away from any thought of edge lighting! I mean a flat diffuser,
the same size and shape as the screen. As I said, a sheet of paper for
example! Though a milky piece of plastic would be more transmissive and
stronger. Perhaps with a fold-down matt white panel that could be placed
on the desk behind the screen as a, though needing somewhere to store
that would be a problem. The edge lighting bit was only for the Sony
camera, where it had to be usable with the light behind you; for a
computer display, I'd happily accept the necessity to turn (or move the
light!) so that the light was at a glancing angle behind the screen, if
it gave me 50-100% more battery time (from not running the backlight).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When you go in for a job interview, I think a good thing to ask is if they
ever
press charges." - Jack Handey
  #14  
Old March 18th 12, 05:27 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Tablet machines and W9X?

In message ,
Lostgallifreyan writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

All-in-one units with CRTs did exist - I think
the Osborne 1 may even have run on batteries, it was certainly heavy
enough! - the best example possibly being the original Amstrad word
processor


And the early Apple Mac's. Fugliest hardware anyone could call a computer,


How could I forget those! I liked them (aesthetically, not as computers)
because you could see the innards, which was a change in consumer
technology at that time.
[]
What gets me though is what happened when LCD's came in, and hard disks got
plentiful and easy to use. I'd have thought that a CPU, with attacked hard
disk, and the VDU, all shared the same need to be sat firmly in place, while
keyboards were shoved around as required, like books. So WHY separate the CPU
from the VDU and attach it to the keyboard?! This is basically the logic
behind the laptop. Apart from keeping the weight in the base, it made little
sense, and that was founded on a false premise anyway. How many people really
use a laptop, in their lap, hunched over ruining their spines for hours on
end? Most people can find a table, even on a train. And on a plane or bus


(Hmm. I'm typing this on a [large] netbook while lying in bed, but on
the whole I agree.)

there isn't room for anythign that isn't all in one peice anyway. No room to
even lift a lid if has a big screen in it. I susp[ect that as much as
anything has made people realise that laptops are a bit stupid, and made them
all want phones and tablets. But what a SLOW awakening!


Indeed!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When you go in for a job interview, I think a good thing to ask is if they
ever
press charges." - Jack Handey
  #15  
Old March 18th 12, 05:28 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Tablet machines and W9X?

In message , "J. P. Gilliver
(John)" writes:
[]
No, get away from any thought of edge lighting! I mean a flat diffuser,
the same size and shape as the screen. As I said, a sheet of paper for
example! Though a milky piece of plastic would be more transmissive and
stronger. Perhaps with a fold-down matt white panel that could be
placed on the desk behind the screen as a, though needing somewhere to


oops - "sort of reflector" got left out before that comma.

store that would be a problem. The edge lighting bit was only for the
Sony camera, where it had to be usable with the light behind you; for a
computer display, I'd happily accept the necessity to turn (or move the
light!) so that the light was at a glancing angle behind the screen, if
it gave me 50-100% more battery time (from not running the backlight).

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When you go in for a job interview, I think a good thing to ask is if they
ever
press charges." - Jack Handey
  #16  
Old March 18th 12, 05:32 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Tablet machines and W9X?

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/official...--specs/6285.h
tml A quick look on Ebay and elsewhere suggests they are rare though )-:


That could be bad. Rare costs... And is not easilt backed up or replaced.
That link led to the EEEbox though, which I'll look into. The MSI thinger
looks nice, but I'm not wild about MSI. In this context they might be good
though. Old ELO 12" screens can be found very cheap, and while the
touchscreen control might be worn out, the rest is usually very high quality,
and ideally matched to a small box that can fit directly onto it. The main
problem with the older VDU's is they're heavy and bulky compared to those
little screens used on lottery ticket stands and such. I really want some of
those tiny monitors! IBM make some, as do others, but whenever I look for the
really compact ones on eBay I can't find many, not even on US listings. The
few that do show up have silly prices. I guess it won't change till supply
matches demand.
  #17  
Old March 18th 12, 05:37 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Tablet machines and W9X?

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

No, get away from any thought of edge lighting! I mean a flat diffuser,
the same size and shape as the screen. As I said, a sheet of paper for
example! Though a milky piece of plastic would be more transmissive and
stronger.


I know what you mean, but edge lighting is a better way. Getting an even
light to the screen is tough. If you have to light it all, you have to get a
large, evenly lit diffuse source arranged. That's not easy. Then you have to
avoid all the gubbins that WILL end up stuck to the back, making the screen
look dirty and old within a few days, even hours, of use.

Now go the other way, a point source, spread out. That needs very efficient
coupling, very high energy density. To get a good brightness, it will be
unsafe. But if you have an edge light, you have hugely reduced energy
density, high immunity to ingress of dust, because the diffuser is internally
sealed, and even if you get a bit of gubbins on part of the edge it won't
impair the light balance a lot.
  #18  
Old March 18th 12, 05:42 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Tablet machines and W9X?

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

(Hmm. I'm typing this on a [large] netbook while lying in bed, but on
the whole I agree.)


Ideally I'd like a machine to be on a small frame that couold span the bed
entirely, and be floor standing. If I clonked it the worst that could happen
is it would fall back and land on the bed with eht frame legs prenting it
sliding to hit the floor.. The only weight I'd need to bear would be the
keyboard. Some all-in-one tablet could be very easy to improvise a good stand
for. A netbook isn't a bad choice though, so long as it competes in size and
weight with a small hardback book. But it would have to be as damage
resistant as that book, too.
  #19  
Old March 18th 12, 10:26 PM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
Lostgallifreyan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,562
Default Tablet machines and W9X?

MotoFox confucius-
wrote in
:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_Local_Bus


httpS on Wikipedia? Ò^O

Basically it was a nightmare of an expansion bus wired almost directly to
the CPU, thus, was at the mercy of the chip, and shared all the limiting
factors thereof, especially timing. That's why it didn't last too long
after the 486 era wrapped up, because VESA boards essentially required a
486 to even function. To this day, almost 20 years later, I'm still
baffled that it even worked at all.

Yes, ISA was way slow by comparison (even EISA had its limitations) but it
seems one was far better off putting up with that than the risks
associated with V-L!

PCI was (still is) a godsend....



It is. I like it a lot, at least before it started breeding variants like
nucleated rabbits. VESA sounds like a horrible kludge though. It was bad
enough with some compilers having no idea about timing, far worse to be
locked to a specific hardware device for it.
  #20  
Old March 19th 12, 09:37 AM posted to microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
J. P. Gilliver (John)
External Usenet User
 
Posts: 1,554
Default Tablet machines and W9X?

In message , MotoFox
confucius-say@enlightenment!to!him!lead!it!for!bangpath!foll ow!man!wise.
UUCP writes:
And it came to pass that J. P. Gilliver (John) delivered the following
message unto the people, saying~

When the Ees and netbooks first started to appear, one or two appeared
(may still be available) with the CPU box (including RAM and HD - most
don't have an optical drive) in a little box, without display, but with
standard - I think it's actually called VGA - fixings on the box, so that
you could fix them to the back of a flat-screen monitor, using the holes
on that monitor that were put there to allow wall-mounting. These would
produce a fairly small and rigid unit. I guess they didn't really catch on
because of the lack of small, battery-powered, monitors to attach them to.


http://vr-zone.com/articles/official...pecs/6285.html

So-called all-in-one PCs do exist, but seem to be very much a niche
market: you don't hear much about them, and they seem to have settled
around the 18-22" size, for home users who want a neat system, rather than
portable sizes.


If I understand correctly, this almost sounds like what App£e attempted
some years back with their "IIC" machine.

Googling for the phrase "all-in-one PC" will show what I mean.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... current law enforcement approaches to stem the flow of drugs only manage
to seize about one per cent of the drug imports... - Professor David Nutt (31
July-6 August 2010)
 




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