Bypass Win98 for DOS on startup?

I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started crashing (of
course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it won't
complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you think it's
going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error" screen
with "Windows" in the top program block.

Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it still
locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows. But
I could get into DOS.

What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going through
the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via DOS
commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.

I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer them:
(1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?
(2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port 100-meg
Zip drive be loaded?
(3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer an
entire directory, including subfolders and all files?

All help is greatly appreciated.
Ed

"Ed" wrote in message
...
I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started crashing
(of
course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it won't
complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you think
it's
going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error"
screen
with "Windows" in the top program block.

Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it still
locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows.
But
I could get into DOS.

What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going through
the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via
DOS
commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.

That's not the most advisable approach.

I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer them:
(1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?

Yes. You need to insert a boot floppy,
and the BIOS needs to be set to boot from the A drive.

(2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port 100-meg
Zip drive be loaded?

You don't care.

(3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer an
entire directory, including subfolders and all files?

No. You need a new hard drive, so get that FIRST,
then use the software that comes with it
to FDISK and FORMAT the drive,
and copy the existing drive contents to the new drive.

All help is greatly appreciated.
Ed

Hugh:

Thank you for replying. I'm not real good at any of this internal stuff, so
I hope you bear with me.

I'm trying this approach because I have tried adding a second drive to my
computer before and it didn't work. Downloaded all the jumper settings and
instructions, etc., but no go. It's a Compaq with an AMD chip that was
given to me when my first computer went out. I tried adding in the drive
from the first one to move files over, but I could never get the slave drive
to recognize. So I'm loathe to try that now having to move files off TWO
drives onto a third!

Also, the OS is on a Compaq "restore" CD, which fully wipes the drive and
installs Win98, plus a bunch of other junk. So copying the files onto the
new drive wouldn't work - they would be overwritten when I reinstalled the
system. That's why I was hoping to be able to copy them off the drive onto
a Zip or something. But I think that would require booting from the
installed hard drive to get the Iomega drivers, unless a boot disk would
come with that.

This is about all my limited knowledge can come up with, given these
limitations. Is there any hope here?
Ed

"Hugh Candlin" wrote in message
...

"Ed" wrote in message
...
I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started crashing
(of
course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it
won't
complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you think
it's
going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error"
screen
with "Windows" in the top program block.

Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it
still
locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows.
But
I could get into DOS.

What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going
through
the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via
DOS
commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.

That's not the most advisable approach.

I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer them:
(1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?

Yes. You need to insert a boot floppy,
and the BIOS needs to be set to boot from the A drive.

(2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port
100-meg
Zip drive be loaded?

You don't care.

(3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer
an
entire directory, including subfolders and all files?

No. You need a new hard drive, so get that FIRST,
then use the software that comes with it
to FDISK and FORMAT the drive,
and copy the existing drive contents to the new drive.

All help is greatly appreciated.
Ed

What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going through
the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via
DOS
commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.

That's not the most advisable approach.

Will this work to get "My Documents" and personal data off at least? The
moment a drive gives me any inkling of trouble, an unscheduled backup of
data comes to mind :-/

Are quotes required to handle long file names, etc?

"Ed" wrote in message
...

. . . I have tried adding a second drive to my
computer before and it didn't work. Downloaded all the jumper settings
and
instructions, etc., but no go. It's a Compaq with an AMD chip that was
given to me when my first computer went out. I tried adding in the drive
from the first one to move files over, but I could never get the slave
drive
to recognize. So I'm loathe to try that now having to move files off TWO
drives onto a third!

Also, the OS is on a Compaq "restore" CD, which fully wipes the drive and
installs Win98, plus a bunch of other junk. So copying the files onto the
new drive wouldn't work - they would be overwritten when I reinstalled the
system. That's why I was hoping to be able to copy them off the drive
onto
a Zip or something. But I think that would require booting from the
installed hard drive to get the Iomega drivers, unless a boot disk would
come with that.

Your simplest route may be to:
0. Prepare appropriately, cf. below.
1. Instal the new drive as C: and D: i.e. first drive
connected to IDE line 1, partitioned into two drives
(one Primary DOS, the other Extended DOS) formatted.
2. Instal the Compaq Win98 on the new C: from its
floppy and CD.
3. Copy to the new D: urgently needed files from any
other hard drive.
4. #2 means you will need to instal afresh your main
apps, rather than reusing the old Registry. But you
have not been able to confirm that the old Registry
is undamaged.
5. You can figure out later how to connect for copying
any other drives. When you earlier failed to add a
second drive, you probably did something wrong ---
check preparations beforehand e.g. via
http://aumha.org/win4/a/clean.htm or
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Scandisk can identify bad sectors and take them out of use, if they=20
exist, although it may take a while to find them all. Start the=20
computer in Command Prompt by tapping the F8 key repeatedly=20
during bootup, type "scandisk c: /surface" and press "Enter". Also,=20
most hard drive manufacturers have diagnostic software available=20
for download.

Maxtor http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/index.htm
Seagate http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/B7a.html
Western Digital http://support.wdc.com/download/index.asp

See the following about using your Zip drive in DOS. Please note
that you may have to copy the files to a floppy on the computer you
are using now, since you cannot start Windows on the problem
computer.

http://www.iomega.com/support/manual...t.html#dosmode

Ben

"Ed" wrote in message =
...
I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started =
crashing (of
course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it =
won't
complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you =
think it's
going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error" =
screen
with "Windows" in the top program block.
=20
Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it =
still
locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows. =
But
I could get into DOS.
=20
What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going =
through
the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files =
via DOS
commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard =
drive.
=20
I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer =
them:
(1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?
(2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port =
100-meg
Zip drive be loaded?
(3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer =
an
entire directory, including subfolders and all files?
=20
All help is greatly appreciated.
Ed
=20

"Ed" wrote in message
...
I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started crashing
(of
course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it won't
complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you think
it's
going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error"
screen
with "Windows" in the top program block.

Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it still
locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows.
But
I could get into DOS.

What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going through
the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via
DOS
commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.

I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer them:
(1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?
(2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port 100-meg
Zip drive be loaded?
(3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer an
entire directory, including subfolders and all files?

All help is greatly appreciated.
Ed



Most cloners and imagers drop the ball if you have bad sectors, and refuse
to copy.

A file level copier, like xcopy, may work. Assuming all the files/folders
copied are not within that bad sector, and are properly readable. Many
suggest this instead of xcopy for these cases:
http://www.xxcopy.com/index.htm

If your PC has a hidden partition where some of the bios may reside or other
critical data, you have to copy this to the new hard drive too. Xcopy and
xxcopy can't do this.

If you're copying a game (kids computer?) directory and its subfolder etc.,
this may not work properly when copying back to the new OS installation.
Or, rather, you may not get what you're expecting.

Parallel connected Zip drive at the real mode dos level? Check with the
Iomega support site.

Press F5 for real mode msdos at the right moment. Else F8, and select same.
You said you could enter DOS anyway. So, why the question?

Thanks for the info, Lil' Dave. All I want to do is rescue files from My
Documents and folders on the Desktop. I can reinstall all other programs.
Thanks for the XXCOPY heads up. I'll look at that.

This is a Compaq, and the Restore CD does create a partition on the drive,
but the stuff in the partition is only to restore the drive, not run the
computer (from what I understand).

Why the questions? Because I never learned DOS. In fact, I originally went
to Macintosh because I never wanted to deal with a DOS prompt! Due to work,
I was "forced" to work on a PC, which I now enjoy. But I still don't know
DOS. I can get there, and managed to do a SCANDISK last night, but that's
about it. SCANDISK said I've got an invalid long filename, but I don't know
how to find it, or open the log file through DOS to read it, or any other
such stuff. I'm wanting to be very careful - as the rule is in carpentry
and laying carpet: "measure twice, cut once" - because I'm well aware I may
not be able to UNDO some of these "cuts", and won't realize until it's too
late.

Ed

"Lil' Dave" wrote in message
...
"Ed" wrote in message
snip

Most cloners and imagers drop the ball if you have bad sectors, and refuse
to copy.

A file level copier, like xcopy, may work. Assuming all the files/folders
copied are not within that bad sector, and are properly readable. Many
suggest this instead of xcopy for these cases:
http://www.xxcopy.com/index.htm

If your PC has a hidden partition where some of the bios may reside or
other
critical data, you have to copy this to the new hard drive too. Xcopy and
xxcopy can't do this.

If you're copying a game (kids computer?) directory and its subfolder
etc.,
this may not work properly when copying back to the new OS installation.
Or, rather, you may not get what you're expecting.

Parallel connected Zip drive at the real mode dos level? Check with the
Iomega support site.

Press F5 for real mode msdos at the right moment. Else F8, and select
same.
You said you could enter DOS anyway. So, why the question?

Thanks, Ben. I needed to know that stuff, and didn't think there might be
stuff I needed to know. Just found out the power supply for my Zip drive is
out, so now I've time to read before I get that fixed.

I did do a DOS SCANDISK last night, and it gave me "invalid long filename".
I did a Google Groups search for info on this, and have some other things to
try. It might not be a bad sector after all.

I appreciate the boost.
Ed

"Ben Myers" wrote in message
...
Scandisk can identify bad sectors and take them out of use, if they
exist, although it may take a while to find them all. Start the
computer in Command Prompt by tapping the F8 key repeatedly
during bootup, type "scandisk c: /surface" and press "Enter". Also,
most hard drive manufacturers have diagnostic software available
for download.

Maxtor http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/index.htm
Seagate http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/B7a.html
Western Digital http://support.wdc.com/download/index.asp

See the following about using your Zip drive in DOS. Please note
that you may have to copy the files to a floppy on the computer you
are using now, since you cannot start Windows on the problem
computer.

http://www.iomega.com/support/manual...t.html#dosmode

Ben

"Ed" wrote in message
...
I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started crashing
(of
course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it won't
complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you think
it's
going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error"
screen
with "Windows" in the top program block.

Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it still
locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows.
But
I could get into DOS.

What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going through
the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via
DOS
commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.

I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer them:
(1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?
(2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port 100-meg
Zip drive be loaded?
(3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer an
entire directory, including subfolders and all files?

All help is greatly appreciated.
Ed

Don and Hugh: Thanks for the input and guidance. I'm real leery about
dinking around with the insides of my computer. Back in the days when a
programmable calculator was a "computer", I would sling solder in a radar or
radio with no problem. Now, though, I look inside this box, and it's all
plug and pray! There's no voltages, no waveform checkpoints - just these
mysterious bits of software that all have to talk nice to each other or
nothing works right.

But I did learn to read manuals and follow instructions (*after* frying a
wiring harness because I overlooked Step 1: "Disconnect power"!!). So I
appreciate the info, and will try not to have too many disasters. I did
manage a DOS SCANDISK last night, and got "invalid long filename". I did a
Google Groups search and got lots more info, so I'll see where I wind up
with this.

Ed

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...

"Ed" wrote in message
...

. . . I have tried adding a second drive to my
computer before and it didn't work. Downloaded all the jumper settings
and
instructions, etc., but no go. It's a Compaq with an AMD chip that was
given to me when my first computer went out. I tried adding in the
drive
from the first one to move files over, but I could never get the slave
drive
to recognize. So I'm loathe to try that now having to move files off
TWO
drives onto a third!

Also, the OS is on a Compaq "restore" CD, which fully wipes the drive
and
installs Win98, plus a bunch of other junk. So copying the files onto
the
new drive wouldn't work - they would be overwritten when I reinstalled
the
system. That's why I was hoping to be able to copy them off the drive
onto
a Zip or something. But I think that would require booting from the
installed hard drive to get the Iomega drivers, unless a boot disk would
come with that.

Your simplest route may be to:
0. Prepare appropriately, cf. below.
1. Instal the new drive as C: and D: i.e. first drive
connected to IDE line 1, partitioned into two drives
(one Primary DOS, the other Extended DOS) formatted.
2. Instal the Compaq Win98 on the new C: from its
floppy and CD.
3. Copy to the new D: urgently needed files from any
other hard drive.
4. #2 means you will need to instal afresh your main
apps, rather than reusing the old Registry. But you
have not been able to confirm that the old Registry
is undamaged.
5. You can figure out later how to connect for copying
any other drives. When you earlier failed to add a
second drive, you probably did something wrong ---
check preparations beforehand e.g. via
http://aumha.org/win4/a/clean.htm or
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)