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  #11  
Old June 19th 06, 09:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.general
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Slow PC


Noel –

Thanks for the added information. I know AOL has its problems and critics.
However, for my use and convenience, I have tried to stick with it. Anyway,
the reason I started this post was to prepare for Vista. It was my thinking
that the new operating system together with a new PC would do away with many
AOL delay problems. And, if that turns out to be true, I would have saved me
time by not switching to another ISP. I have always had my doubts that AOL
worked smoothly with Windows Me. I think Windows Me has been a problem with
other applications as well.

Jerry

"Noel Paton" wrote:

Simple answer, is no - because almost none of the other ISP's have the same
complex layers between themselves and the user.
Why does AOL have these layers - because at one time they were needed for a
reliable connection on dialup, and AOL built their business model around
them, and sell huge amounts of advertising space on the interface.
Why can't you use the more normal methods of connection with AOL that
everyone else does? because they'd lose advertising revenue, and lose
control over their customers.

AOL's interface allows them currently to lockout use of routers to share the
internet connection, as it does also ICS (unless you jump through a lot of
hoops)- you have to pay extra for an 'upgraded' service to get the ability
to share an ADSL line switched on in AOL

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
"Jerry" wrote in message
...
Noel –

How nice of you to detail AOL’s operation and confirm it with the Resource
Meter, etc. And, your example of delays on a fast machine was surprising.
I
would not have expected that.

Do other ISPs have similar delays?

Jerry


"Noel Paton" wrote:

AOL is a system hog - I know, I used it (on dialup) for 10 years!
It has a habit of updating itself in the background without telling you -
and reinstating applications that you thought that you had safely
disabled
every time you start AOL up.
Said applications are frequently the cause of the slowness - and McAfee
is
worse than most in this respect, particularly in WIn9x systems (the only
one
worse is Norton, AFAIK).
Next time you boot, open the Resource Meter before opening AOL, and watch
the available resource drop like a stone. Open System Monitor - and watch
the Kernel Processor usage climb to 100% and stay there for the lagtime,
and
the Swapfile in Use numbers start to climb towards the roof, and stay
there.

To switch screen names in AOL, the process involves (IIRC) actually
unloading AOL and reloading a different instance - and this takes time.

The process of starting up AOL itself is a little lesson in how not to
write
an application, very roughly what happens is (and this is from memory,
so
could be total BS!):-
1) You click the shortcut
2) this launches WAOL.exe - which in turn the checks the integrity of the
installation before doing anything else, and scan your existing network
connections
3) if no new connections are found, it begins to load the required
background applications
4) once all the background applications are loaded, it then loads the
rest
of the connector, and eventually you get the request for the
screenname/password
5) You click OK on the SN/PW
6)AOL then connects to the local exchange, which then connects to the US
servers for verification of the PW/SN, and hands you back to whichever is
you local AOL server, which deals with you from then on
this then begins the download of the pages, at the same time checking
your
buddy list, and updating the email database.
AOL has a pretty high contention ratio - so there may be a lot of user
fighting for the bandwidth that you're using intensively at this time,
and
they have a right to at least some of it all the time.
7) Eventually, AOL has finished updating everything in sight, and
updating
the background apps as well, and you get the adverts popping up

Even on a fast-ish machine (this one is a non-optimised 3GHz Sempron with
1GB RAM in XP running AOL9 over 1Mb/s BT ADSL) the full process can take
7
seconds to bring up the login screen, and about 15-20 seconds to do the
actual login - and that's when I'm already connected to the Net, by
another
ISP!, add in the negotiation time required, and any slowdowns because you
may be using a limited-bandwidth service, and it's easy to see where 45
seconds comes from.

HTH

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
"Jerry" wrote in message
...

Noel –

The lag time is not always the same, but this is what I normally
experience

When I first hit the AOL logo to sign on, it can take maybe 15 sec. to
get
to the sign on page. Now, when I click on the sign on page, it can
take
maybe another 10 seconds to get to the "welcome" page. Now, to your
point
of
AOL loading a lot of stuff, that is true. I say that because when I am
on
the sign on page, I can tell AOL is downloading the spyware and
antivirus
notification. Also, when I first hit the AOL logo and am waiting, my
antivirus (supplied by AOL) is loading. So, I can understand some of
this
is
slowing me down.

However, what annoys me the most is this. When I click on the sign on
page
and start loading my "welcome page," all graphics appear except for one
small
block. And I can wait 20 seconds for it to appear. It’s the same
block
all
the time.

And then, what bothers me next is this. When I switch screen names, I
have
waited up to 45 seconds for the switch to be made.

Now, that being said, all of the above usually are the worse at first
application. So, I am thinking that after my initial sign on, AOL is
done
downloading programs whereby follow-up use is faster.

But, I need to say also, the above delays, etc have gotten worse in the
past
year. So, even though AOL can be part of the problem, I am wondering
if
my
PC is contributing some of the delays.

My buddy list has two people.

Jerry


"Noel Paton" wrote:

AOL can download an awful lot of stuff before it decides to show it!!

When you say 'lag' - what are we talking about? Seconds for the first
page
to complete display, or seconds for a number of pages to be displayed?

How many people are in your Buddies list (the more you have there, the
longer AOL will take to check to see whether they're online)?


--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to
NG's
"Jerry" wrote in message
...
Dan –

Your reference is very interesting. I can see you took some time to
organize it. In addition to the information you include, you do a
good
job
in taking time to include the key strokes to activate a feature.
Perhaps
you
can answer this question.

I use AOL for my ISP and use DSL. When I sign on to AOL I often
have a
time
lag and my sign on page can take some time to fully display its
graphics.
I
have tried AOL fixes, but no help. Do you think the delay in
signing
on
to
AOL is an AOL problem or a problem with a slow PC?

Thanks again for your reply.

Jerry

"Dapper Dan" wrote:

Jerry

If you have an intermediate skill level, you should be able to
improve
the
slow operation yourself. Take a look at the following site as a
starter
and
then as you progress, come back with specifics; guys like Noel and
Mike,
and
a few others, have a wealth of knowledge that they are eager to
share.
http://www.burzurq.com/forum/trevtweak.html

Bonne chance

"Jerry" wrote in message
...
Slow PC (Windows Me)

Having an intermediate skill level for PCs, I employ the common
maintenance
practices to keep my PC operating smoothly. Often I get flyers
in
the
mail
from PC groups offering their services. One of their services is
to
fix a
slow operating PC.

Short of reformatting and reinstalling an operating system, what
would
these
groups do to a slow PC that I would not have done?

Thanks,
Jerry










  #12  
Old June 19th 06, 10:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.general
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Slow PC

FWIW, ME worked fine with me on AOL and dialup - but I've no experience of
AOL on ADSL (except for one client system that I'd rather forget!), let
alone ME/AOL/ADSL
Getting out from AOL is awkward, and a wrench - but it's something that you
have to do if you want to 'mature' into the true internet experience
The biggest problem for ME has always been Norton software - which brings
more custom to the NG's I frequent than any other software house WRT ME.
The version of Norton that shipped with a LOT of early ME machines was not
in fact compatible (and the updated versions weren't much better).
That and reduced OEM backing because they knew that it had less than a year
before XP came out... and it suddenly got a bad rep that it didn't deserve.
ME was never a Swan - but it was a very handsome duck

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
"Jerry" wrote in message
...

Noel –

Thanks for the added information. I know AOL has its problems and
critics.
However, for my use and convenience, I have tried to stick with it.
Anyway,
the reason I started this post was to prepare for Vista. It was my
thinking
that the new operating system together with a new PC would do away with
many
AOL delay problems. And, if that turns out to be true, I would have saved
me
time by not switching to another ISP. I have always had my doubts that
AOL
worked smoothly with Windows Me. I think Windows Me has been a problem
with
other applications as well.

Jerry

"Noel Paton" wrote:

Simple answer, is no - because almost none of the other ISP's have the
same
complex layers between themselves and the user.
Why does AOL have these layers - because at one time they were needed for
a
reliable connection on dialup, and AOL built their business model around
them, and sell huge amounts of advertising space on the interface.
Why can't you use the more normal methods of connection with AOL that
everyone else does? because they'd lose advertising revenue, and lose
control over their customers.

AOL's interface allows them currently to lockout use of routers to share
the
internet connection, as it does also ICS (unless you jump through a lot
of
hoops)- you have to pay extra for an 'upgraded' service to get the
ability
to share an ADSL line switched on in AOL

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
"Jerry" wrote in message
...
Noel –

How nice of you to detail AOL’s operation and confirm it with the
Resource
Meter, etc. And, your example of delays on a fast machine was
surprising.
I
would not have expected that.

Do other ISPs have similar delays?

Jerry


"Noel Paton" wrote:

AOL is a system hog - I know, I used it (on dialup) for 10 years!
It has a habit of updating itself in the background without telling
you -
and reinstating applications that you thought that you had safely
disabled
every time you start AOL up.
Said applications are frequently the cause of the slowness - and
McAfee
is
worse than most in this respect, particularly in WIn9x systems (the
only
one
worse is Norton, AFAIK).
Next time you boot, open the Resource Meter before opening AOL, and
watch
the available resource drop like a stone. Open System Monitor - and
watch
the Kernel Processor usage climb to 100% and stay there for the
lagtime,
and
the Swapfile in Use numbers start to climb towards the roof, and stay
there.

To switch screen names in AOL, the process involves (IIRC) actually
unloading AOL and reloading a different instance - and this takes
time.

The process of starting up AOL itself is a little lesson in how not to
write
an application, very roughly what happens is (and this is from
memory,
so
could be total BS!):-
1) You click the shortcut
2) this launches WAOL.exe - which in turn the checks the integrity of
the
installation before doing anything else, and scan your existing
network
connections
3) if no new connections are found, it begins to load the required
background applications
4) once all the background applications are loaded, it then loads the
rest
of the connector, and eventually you get the request for the
screenname/password
5) You click OK on the SN/PW
6)AOL then connects to the local exchange, which then connects to the
US
servers for verification of the PW/SN, and hands you back to whichever
is
you local AOL server, which deals with you from then on
this then begins the download of the pages, at the same time checking
your
buddy list, and updating the email database.
AOL has a pretty high contention ratio - so there may be a lot of user
fighting for the bandwidth that you're using intensively at this time,
and
they have a right to at least some of it all the time.
7) Eventually, AOL has finished updating everything in sight, and
updating
the background apps as well, and you get the adverts popping up

Even on a fast-ish machine (this one is a non-optimised 3GHz Sempron
with
1GB RAM in XP running AOL9 over 1Mb/s BT ADSL) the full process can
take
7
seconds to bring up the login screen, and about 15-20 seconds to do
the
actual login - and that's when I'm already connected to the Net, by
another
ISP!, add in the negotiation time required, and any slowdowns because
you
may be using a limited-bandwidth service, and it's easy to see where
45
seconds comes from.

HTH

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to
NG's
"Jerry" wrote in message
...

Noel –

The lag time is not always the same, but this is what I normally
experience

When I first hit the AOL logo to sign on, it can take maybe 15 sec.
to
get
to the sign on page. Now, when I click on the sign on page, it can
take
maybe another 10 seconds to get to the "welcome" page. Now, to your
point
of
AOL loading a lot of stuff, that is true. I say that because when I
am
on
the sign on page, I can tell AOL is downloading the spyware and
antivirus
notification. Also, when I first hit the AOL logo and am waiting,
my
antivirus (supplied by AOL) is loading. So, I can understand some
of
this
is
slowing me down.

However, what annoys me the most is this. When I click on the sign
on
page
and start loading my "welcome page," all graphics appear except for
one
small
block. And I can wait 20 seconds for it to appear. It’s the same
block
all
the time.

And then, what bothers me next is this. When I switch screen names,
I
have
waited up to 45 seconds for the switch to be made.

Now, that being said, all of the above usually are the worse at
first
application. So, I am thinking that after my initial sign on, AOL
is
done
downloading programs whereby follow-up use is faster.

But, I need to say also, the above delays, etc have gotten worse in
the
past
year. So, even though AOL can be part of the problem, I am
wondering
if
my
PC is contributing some of the delays.

My buddy list has two people.

Jerry


"Noel Paton" wrote:

AOL can download an awful lot of stuff before it decides to show
it!!

When you say 'lag' - what are we talking about? Seconds for the
first
page
to complete display, or seconds for a number of pages to be
displayed?

How many people are in your Buddies list (the more you have there,
the
longer AOL will take to check to see whether they're online)?


--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages
to
NG's
"Jerry" wrote in message
...
Dan –

Your reference is very interesting. I can see you took some time
to
organize it. In addition to the information you include, you do
a
good
job
in taking time to include the key strokes to activate a feature.
Perhaps
you
can answer this question.

I use AOL for my ISP and use DSL. When I sign on to AOL I often
have a
time
lag and my sign on page can take some time to fully display its
graphics.
I
have tried AOL fixes, but no help. Do you think the delay in
signing
on
to
AOL is an AOL problem or a problem with a slow PC?

Thanks again for your reply.

Jerry

"Dapper Dan" wrote:

Jerry

If you have an intermediate skill level, you should be able to
improve
the
slow operation yourself. Take a look at the following site as a
starter
and
then as you progress, come back with specifics; guys like Noel
and
Mike,
and
a few others, have a wealth of knowledge that they are eager to
share.
http://www.burzurq.com/forum/trevtweak.html

Bonne chance

"Jerry" wrote in message
...
Slow PC (Windows Me)

Having an intermediate skill level for PCs, I employ the
common
maintenance
practices to keep my PC operating smoothly. Often I get
flyers
in
the
mail
from PC groups offering their services. One of their services
is
to
fix a
slow operating PC.

Short of reformatting and reinstalling an operating system,
what
would
these
groups do to a slow PC that I would not have done?

Thanks,
Jerry











  #13  
Old June 19th 06, 10:20 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.general
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Slow PC

Nice sentiment.

George Gee

ME was never a Swan - but it was a very handsome duck

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)




  #14  
Old June 20th 06, 12:28 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.general
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Slow PC

"Getting out from AOL is awkward, and a wrench --"

How true; that is why I have been reluctant to switch. I just need to
decide. But, I understand what you have said and appreciate your comments.

Jerry

"Noel Paton" wrote:

FWIW, ME worked fine with me on AOL and dialup - but I've no experience of
AOL on ADSL (except for one client system that I'd rather forget!), let
alone ME/AOL/ADSL
Getting out from AOL is awkward, and a wrench - but it's something that you
have to do if you want to 'mature' into the true internet experience
The biggest problem for ME has always been Norton software - which brings
more custom to the NG's I frequent than any other software house WRT ME.
The version of Norton that shipped with a LOT of early ME machines was not
in fact compatible (and the updated versions weren't much better).
That and reduced OEM backing because they knew that it had less than a year
before XP came out... and it suddenly got a bad rep that it didn't deserve.
ME was never a Swan - but it was a very handsome duck

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
"Jerry" wrote in message
...

Noel –

Thanks for the added information. I know AOL has its problems and
critics.
However, for my use and convenience, I have tried to stick with it.
Anyway,
the reason I started this post was to prepare for Vista. It was my
thinking
that the new operating system together with a new PC would do away with
many
AOL delay problems. And, if that turns out to be true, I would have saved
me
time by not switching to another ISP. I have always had my doubts that
AOL
worked smoothly with Windows Me. I think Windows Me has been a problem
with
other applications as well.

Jerry

"Noel Paton" wrote:

Simple answer, is no - because almost none of the other ISP's have the
same
complex layers between themselves and the user.
Why does AOL have these layers - because at one time they were needed for
a
reliable connection on dialup, and AOL built their business model around
them, and sell huge amounts of advertising space on the interface.
Why can't you use the more normal methods of connection with AOL that
everyone else does? because they'd lose advertising revenue, and lose
control over their customers.

AOL's interface allows them currently to lockout use of routers to share
the
internet connection, as it does also ICS (unless you jump through a lot
of
hoops)- you have to pay extra for an 'upgraded' service to get the
ability
to share an ADSL line switched on in AOL

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
"Jerry" wrote in message
...
Noel –

How nice of you to detail AOL’s operation and confirm it with the
Resource
Meter, etc. And, your example of delays on a fast machine was
surprising.
I
would not have expected that.

Do other ISPs have similar delays?

Jerry


"Noel Paton" wrote:

AOL is a system hog - I know, I used it (on dialup) for 10 years!
It has a habit of updating itself in the background without telling
you -
and reinstating applications that you thought that you had safely
disabled
every time you start AOL up.
Said applications are frequently the cause of the slowness - and
McAfee
is
worse than most in this respect, particularly in WIn9x systems (the
only
one
worse is Norton, AFAIK).
Next time you boot, open the Resource Meter before opening AOL, and
watch
the available resource drop like a stone. Open System Monitor - and
watch
the Kernel Processor usage climb to 100% and stay there for the
lagtime,
and
the Swapfile in Use numbers start to climb towards the roof, and stay
there.

To switch screen names in AOL, the process involves (IIRC) actually
unloading AOL and reloading a different instance - and this takes
time.

The process of starting up AOL itself is a little lesson in how not to
write
an application, very roughly what happens is (and this is from
memory,
so
could be total BS!):-
1) You click the shortcut
2) this launches WAOL.exe - which in turn the checks the integrity of
the
installation before doing anything else, and scan your existing
network
connections
3) if no new connections are found, it begins to load the required
background applications
4) once all the background applications are loaded, it then loads the
rest
of the connector, and eventually you get the request for the
screenname/password
5) You click OK on the SN/PW
6)AOL then connects to the local exchange, which then connects to the
US
servers for verification of the PW/SN, and hands you back to whichever
is
you local AOL server, which deals with you from then on
this then begins the download of the pages, at the same time checking
your
buddy list, and updating the email database.
AOL has a pretty high contention ratio - so there may be a lot of user
fighting for the bandwidth that you're using intensively at this time,
and
they have a right to at least some of it all the time.
7) Eventually, AOL has finished updating everything in sight, and
updating
the background apps as well, and you get the adverts popping up

Even on a fast-ish machine (this one is a non-optimised 3GHz Sempron
with
1GB RAM in XP running AOL9 over 1Mb/s BT ADSL) the full process can
take
7
seconds to bring up the login screen, and about 15-20 seconds to do
the
actual login - and that's when I'm already connected to the Net, by
another
ISP!, add in the negotiation time required, and any slowdowns because
you
may be using a limited-bandwidth service, and it's easy to see where
45
seconds comes from.

HTH

--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to
NG's
"Jerry" wrote in message
...

Noel –

The lag time is not always the same, but this is what I normally
experience

When I first hit the AOL logo to sign on, it can take maybe 15 sec.
to
get
to the sign on page. Now, when I click on the sign on page, it can
take
maybe another 10 seconds to get to the "welcome" page. Now, to your
point
of
AOL loading a lot of stuff, that is true. I say that because when I
am
on
the sign on page, I can tell AOL is downloading the spyware and
antivirus
notification. Also, when I first hit the AOL logo and am waiting,
my
antivirus (supplied by AOL) is loading. So, I can understand some
of
this
is
slowing me down.

However, what annoys me the most is this. When I click on the sign
on
page
and start loading my "welcome page," all graphics appear except for
one
small
block. And I can wait 20 seconds for it to appear. It’s the same
block
all
the time.

And then, what bothers me next is this. When I switch screen names,
I
have
waited up to 45 seconds for the switch to be made.

Now, that being said, all of the above usually are the worse at
first
application. So, I am thinking that after my initial sign on, AOL
is
done
downloading programs whereby follow-up use is faster.

But, I need to say also, the above delays, etc have gotten worse in
the
past
year. So, even though AOL can be part of the problem, I am
wondering
if
my
PC is contributing some of the delays.

My buddy list has two people.

Jerry


"Noel Paton" wrote:

AOL can download an awful lot of stuff before it decides to show
it!!

When you say 'lag' - what are we talking about? Seconds for the
first
page
to complete display, or seconds for a number of pages to be
displayed?

How many people are in your Buddies list (the more you have there,
the
longer AOL will take to check to see whether they're online)?


--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages
to
NG's
"Jerry" wrote in message
...
Dan –

Your reference is very interesting. I can see you took some time
to
organize it. In addition to the information you include, you do
a
good
job
in taking time to include the key strokes to activate a feature.
Perhaps
you
can answer this question.

I use AOL for my ISP and use DSL. When I sign on to AOL I often
have a
time
lag and my sign on page can take some time to fully display its
graphics.
I
have tried AOL fixes, but no help. Do you think the delay in
signing
on
to

  #15  
Old May 27th 10, 09:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsme.general
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Default Slow PC



"Jerry":

Slow PC (Windows Me)

Having an intermediate skill level for PCs, I employ the common maintenance
practices to keep my PC operating smoothly. Often I get flyers in the mail
from PC groups offering their services. One of their services is to fix a
slow operating PC.

Short of reformatting and reinstalling an operating system, what would these
groups do to a slow PC that I would not have done?

Thanks,
Jerry

 




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