RAM question, long and boring as ususal.

Hi gang,

I have a Compaq EVO D510SFF. It has 2 RAM slots, which take up
to 1 GB each. It came with 2 sticks of 128MB PC 2100 DDR 266 and
it worked fine. But I found having the new blazing 512 kbps
connection and loading/making all the related network drivers
(or whatever) work does tend to eat memory, as does the
apparently faster and therefore more addictive idiotic surfing
lifeless losers like thanatoids tend to do when on the web.

So I got a 1GB stick (Shikatronics - Canadian company, Hynix
chips) and removed the other two. It worked for 6 months and
then died. Because of the kind of place I live in, I was
/absolutely/ convinced I would never get an exchange age let
alone a refund (lifetime - or any other - warranty means nothing
here, of course). So I ordered a 1 GB stick from memory-up,
which works perfectly.

Since I was interesting in hearing just WHAT the excuse the
weasels at the memory shop would come up, I went there and told
them what happened. Of course, they did not have that stick in
stock but they said it was coming and they would exchange it, no
paperwork, no questions asked. I was incredulous and
disappointed at being deprived of a chance to break the stick in
half and throw it in their faces along with a few choice words.

A month or so passed and it became (as expected) clear that a 1
GB stick of PC 2100 266 DDR memory would never be available. But
the guy told me a 400 would work fine, and they were coming next
week. Lo and behold, they DID come, and he gave me one today. No
paperwork, no questions asked - I was speechless. Samsung chips,
too! (As on the two original 128 MB sticks).

To top it all off, it passed a couple of memory tests and works
just great - I have no way of telling what SPEED it is running
at, the Compaq BIOS is lacking in some respects. The MB bus
speed is 400 so it JUST may be that they "work together" even
better - 400 sticks were not available (AFAIK) when that Compaq
model came out. It DOES seem to work a little faster, but that
could be self-suggestion or delusional thinking.

Anyway, the question. (As usual, I apologize for being so wordy.
I can't help it. I have to give all the info.)

Going back a bit, a few weeks after installing the 1GB 266 stick
which I ordered from memory-up it occurred to me I could put in
one of the 128MB 266 sticks in the other slot, and have 1152 MB
of memory instead of 1024. So I did. It also works with the 400
stick - AND it makes MORE than 1 GB total, so WHY don't the TWO
*1GB* sticks (one 266 and one 400) work together? (see below)

So I thought, why not try one of the 128MB 266 sticks with the
new 1GB 400 stick? I already knew that the 266 1GB stick from
memory-up worked with the 266 128MB stick, but since the TWO 1
GB sticks (one 266, one 400) did NOT work with each other, I
expected the 400 1 GB stick NOT to work with the 266 128MB
stick, BUT IT DOES.

Does anyone have any idea WHY?

I should add both the 266 stick from memory-up and the
Shikatronics stick have identical two sides configurations AFA
amount of chips etc.

It might be worth mentioning that while the change to 1GB WAS
worth it, I always have AT LEAST 400 MB left over, so this was
strictly speaking, unnecessary, but why not. I run Win 98SE Lite
and I changed the vcache setting to

MinFileCache=0
MaxFileCache=524288

EVEN THOUGH the original Shikatronics 266 stick which died after
6 months DID NOT REQUIRE that for booting into Windows!

The memory-up stick did - and if anyone can tell me why, there
will be one less mystery to live with.

Today when I got home I left the memory-up 1GB 266 in and put in
the 400, and it would not boot into Windows - I got the usual
"insufficient memory" message which I saw mentioned on the web
somewhere. I read a few other things, and SOME say 1 GB is all
98SE can handle, some say it can handle up to 4GB. It is
academic, since 1GB is more than enough for me. But the two
sticks (266 and 400) did /not/ work together, and I wonder why -
ESPECIALLY since the speed does not appear to be a factor since
a 128MB 266 stick works fine with the 1GB 400 stick.

Any clarifications would be appreciated.


--
Lots of theoretical butchers are alleged and other bloody eyes
are suitable, but will Pam secure that?

thanatoid wrote:
Hi gang,

I have a Compaq EVO D510SFF. It has 2 RAM slots, which take up
to 1 GB each. It came with 2 sticks of 128MB PC 2100 DDR 266 and
it worked fine. But I found having the new blazing 512 kbps
connection and loading/making all the related network drivers
(or whatever) work does tend to eat memory, as does the
apparently faster and therefore more addictive idiotic surfing
lifeless losers like thanatoids tend to do when on the web.


SNIP

Anyway, the question. (As usual, I apologize for being so wordy.
I can't help it. I have to give all the info.)

Going back a bit, a few weeks after installing the 1GB 266 stick
which I ordered from memory-up it occurred to me I could put in
one of the 128MB 266 sticks in the other slot, and have 1152 MB
of memory instead of 1024. So I did. It also works with the 400
stick - AND it makes MORE than 1 GB total, so WHY don't the TWO
*1GB* sticks (one 266 and one 400) work together? (see below)

So I thought, why not try one of the 128MB 266 sticks with the
new 1GB 400 stick? I already knew that the 266 1GB stick from
memory-up worked with the 266 128MB stick, but since the TWO 1
GB sticks (one 266, one 400) did NOT work with each other, I
expected the 400 1 GB stick NOT to work with the 266 128MB
stick, BUT IT DOES.


So the fundamental question is what is the maximum memory and what type
can be fitted in a Compaq EVO D510SFF?

http://www.crucial.com/store/listpar... orm%20Factors

Two 1Gb DDR PC2700 should work. Best to stick to the same type and speed
if possible.

thanatoid wrote:
[snip]

Today when I got home I left the memory-up 1GB 266 in and put in
the 400, and it would not boot into Windows - I got the usual
"insufficient memory" message which I saw mentioned on the web
somewhere. I read a few other things, and SOME say 1 GB is all
98SE can handle, some say it can handle up to 4GB. It is
academic, since 1GB is more than enough for me. But the two
sticks (266 and 400) did /not/ work together, and I wonder why -
ESPECIALLY since the speed does not appear to be a factor since
a 128MB 266 stick works fine with the 1GB 400 stick.

Any clarifications would be appreciated.

When you have over 1.5GB of ram in a Win98 OS, it will usually not boot up
and will give you the error you are receiving (insufficient memory). It
sometimes even happens at 1GB or 1.256GB
You are lucky that your system boots up with 1128 of ram.
You have the correct entries in System.ini.
If you want to keep both 1GB sticks in your machine, you would have to add a
line that limits the amount of physical memory your system can use and it
would have to be a max of 1.5GB. Doing so is sometimes necessary when you
use a dual boot system and the 'other' OS can use all the extra ram.
Buffalo
PS: So you see, it is not that the two 1GB ram sticks are incompatible, it
is just that 2GB won't let Win98Lite boot up.
I believe this is thoroughly explained in aumha.org somewhere.
Also, the memory sticks will run at the speed of the slowest stick.

Buffalo wrote:
thanatoid wrote:
[snip]

Today when I got home I left the memory-up 1GB 266 in and put in
the 400, and it would not boot into Windows - I got the usual
"insufficient memory" message which I saw mentioned on the web
somewhere. I read a few other things, and SOME say 1 GB is all
98SE can handle, some say it can handle up to 4GB. It is
academic, since 1GB is more than enough for me. But the two
sticks (266 and 400) did /not/ work together, and I wonder why -
ESPECIALLY since the speed does not appear to be a factor since
a 128MB 266 stick works fine with the 1GB 400 stick.

Any clarifications would be appreciated.

When you have over 1.5GB of ram in a Win98 OS, it will usually not boot up
and will give you the error you are receiving (insufficient memory). It
sometimes even happens at 1GB or 1.256GB
You are lucky that your system boots up with 1128 of ram.
You have the correct entries in System.ini.
If you want to keep both 1GB sticks in your machine, you would have to add a
line that limits the amount of physical memory your system can use and it
would have to be a max of 1.5GB. Doing so is sometimes necessary when you
use a dual boot system and the 'other' OS can use all the extra ram.
Buffalo
PS: So you see, it is not that the two 1GB ram sticks are incompatible, it
is just that 2GB won't let Win98Lite boot up.
I believe this is thoroughly explained in aumha.org somewhere.
Also, the memory sticks will run at the speed of the slowest stick.



I don't deal with such antique systems so had forgotten about that
little problem. It is detailed here
http://support.microsoft.com/Default.aspx?kbid=304943

Desk Rabbit wrote in
:

thanatoid wrote:

SNIP

So the fundamental question is what is the maximum memory
and what type can be fitted in a Compaq EVO D510SFF?

I have the manuals and they say 2GB. The 4GB question was
theoretical.

I have also looked at various memory vendors' pages, read the
often-conflicting info (within a siote and across various
sites), and tried to order from them - BION, while many will
only ship to the US (maybe Canada or UK - which is or isn't
understandable depending on your mood at the moment), most will
NOT ACCEPT NON-US credit cards. I have a Canadian card, not a
Russian or Iraqi one. THAT is INCOMPREHENSIBLE. That's why I
ended up buying from memory-up.

http://www.crucial.com/store/listpar...del=Evo%20D510
%20Series%20All%20Form%20Factors

I understand they probably use a cookie-cutter manner of
preparing these Q&A's, but there are several serious
inconsistencies in that page:

+++

Each memory slot can hold DDR PC2700, DDR PC3200 with a maximum
of 1GB per slot.*

==But later they say PC2100 is OK and in fact specified by
manuf. Maybe *Crucial* doesn't have any 2100's any more but
other vendors DO.

*Not to exceed manufacturer supported memory.

==Are they talking about the D510's or about some theoretical
machine? Let's get the facts straight and consistent - this page
will NOT be read by people with the knowledge that techs have.

Maximum Memory: 2048MB
Slots: 2 (2 banks of 1)
Standard Memory: 128, 256, or 512MB removable
USB Support: 1.x Compliant

==I don't know why this is mentioned here, but the computer has
USB 2. And what does memory have to do with USB ports?

Q: Will my system recognize the maximum upgrade?

A: Possibly
How much memory your Windows OS will recognize depends on which
version of Windows you are running. 32-bit versions of Windows
will see (and utilize) only 3GB or 3.5GB.

==In two (or three) other places on this page they say this
computer can only handle up to 2GB. I thought this was a page
about the D510's /specifically/?!

To utilize more memory, install a 64-bit version of your OS.
More information about OS memory maximums can be found at
http://www.crucial.com/kb/answer.aspx?qid=4251.

==I know almost nothing about 64 bit OS's but something tells me
you can't install one on this 7 yr old machine.

Q: What memory goes into my computer, and will a faster speed be
backward-compatible?

A: DDR memory with support for DDR PC2700, DDR PC3200 speeds.

=AND 2100.

Because DDR memory is backward-compatible, you can safely
upgrade your system with any of the guaranteed-compatible DDR
speeds listed below, even if your manual calls for PC1600 or
PC2100 speeds.

1600 is NOT supported by the EVO D510's. That spec should have
been left out of the above statement so as not to confuse
people. Many do NOT have manuals or would rather die that read
one.

Q: How much memory can my computer handle?

A: 2048MB.

==Hmmm.

Adding the maximum amount of memory will improve performance and
help extend the useful life of your system as you run
increasingly demanding software applications in the future.

==A "Hello Kitty" sticker is missing here...

Q: Do I have to install matching pairs?

A: No.
No, you can install modules one at a time, and you can mix
different densities of modules in your computer. But if your
computer supports dual-channel memory configurations, you should
install in identical pairs (preferably in kits) for optimal
performance.

==This part IS absolutely and completely correct and NOT
inconsistent with other info on this page - for a change.
Although (without checking the manual) I do NOT believe the
D510's support dual-channel memory, nor that it was even
available when they were made. So why talk about it?

Q: Does my computer support dual-channel memory?

A: No.
Your system does not support dual channel.

==Right. Sigh.

+++

Two 1Gb DDR PC2700 should work. Best to stick to the same
type and speed if possible.

Yes, I know, but I am limited by the hell I live in. But the
1.5GB line in system.ini should solve the problem.

Thanks for your reply.


--
Lots of theoretical butchers are alleged and other bloody eyes
are suitable, but will Pam secure that?

"Buffalo" wrote in
:

thanatoid wrote:

SNIP

When you have over 1.5GB of ram in a Win98 OS, it will
usually not boot up and will give you the error you are
receiving (insufficient memory). It sometimes even happens
at 1GB or 1.256GB You are lucky that your system boots up
with 1128 of ram. You have the correct entries in
System.ini.

OK.

If you want to keep both 1GB sticks in your
machine, you would have to add a line that limits the
amount of physical memory your system can use and it would
have to be a max of 1.5GB.

Yes, I read about that even when using 1GB, setting it to 750 or
something, and I thought, well, what IS the point then? It
actually runs OK with 256 MB, even Tiny XP did (I only tried it
for a few days, didn't have any use for it), I just have to
click on the FreeRam XP Pro quite often - while I can just
forget about it with 1GB. (I know - those RAM utilities are
supposed to do nothing, but they do SOMETHING and they DO help,
IME.)

The thought of opening up the machine every time I wanted to use
the /other/ OS makes me sick, so putting both sticks in and
putting in that line is something I should try next time I open
the computer.

Doing so is sometimes necessary
when you use a dual boot system and the 'other' OS can use
all the extra ram.

1.5 GB would certainly be acceptable for TinyXP which I may be
forced to run at some point.

Buffalo
PS: So you see, it is not that the two 1GB ram sticks are
incompatible, it is just that 2GB won't let Win98Lite boot
up. I believe this is thoroughly explained in aumha.org
somewhere. Also, the memory sticks will run at the speed of
the slowest stick.

Yes, that's no problem. It's more than fast enough for anything
I need and more.

Thank you very much for your explanation and suggestions.

t.

thanatoid wrote:
"Buffalo" wrote in
:

thanatoid wrote:

SNIP

When you have over 1.5GB of ram in a Win98 OS, it will
usually not boot up and will give you the error you are
receiving (insufficient memory). It sometimes even happens
at 1GB or 1.256GB You are lucky that your system boots up
with 1128 of ram. You have the correct entries in
System.ini.

OK.

If you want to keep both 1GB sticks in your
machine, you would have to add a line that limits the
amount of physical memory your system can use and it would
have to be a max of 1.5GB.

Yes, I read about that even when using 1GB, setting it to 750 or
something, and I thought, well, what IS the point then? It
actually runs OK with 256 MB, even Tiny XP did (I only tried it
for a few days, didn't have any use for it), I just have to
click on the FreeRam XP Pro quite often - while I can just
forget about it with 1GB. (I know - those RAM utilities are
supposed to do nothing, but they do SOMETHING and they DO help,
IME.)

The thought of opening up the machine every time I wanted to use
the /other/ OS makes me sick, so putting both sticks in and
putting in that line is something I should try next time I open
the computer.

Doing so is sometimes necessary
when you use a dual boot system and the 'other' OS can use
all the extra ram.

1.5 GB would certainly be acceptable for TinyXP which I may be
forced to run at some point.

If you put in the maxphyspage= line in your System.ini under the [386Enh]
header, that will just limit the amt of physical ram in Win98 but will have
no effect on how much is available to the the other OS (TinyXP), I believe,
which should handle the whole 2GB,
Another line to add to the System.ini is ConservativeSwapFileUsage=1 under
the [386Enh] header.
One reference is: http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=12076 but
there are many others.

This line prevents Windows98 from using the swap file until all the
available ram is used. Some gamers swore that this line made their game
playing smoother and faster.




Buffalo
PS: So you see, it is not that the two 1GB ram sticks are
incompatible, it is just that 2GB won't let Win98Lite boot
up. I believe this is thoroughly explained in aumha.org
somewhere. Also, the memory sticks will run at the speed of
the slowest stick.

Yes, that's no problem. It's more than fast enough for anything
I need and more.

Thank you very much for your explanation and suggestions.

t.

"Buffalo" wrote in
:

thanatoid wrote:

SNIP

The thought of opening up the machine every time I wanted
to use the /other/ OS makes me sick, so putting both
sticks in and putting in that line is something I should
try next time I open the computer.

Doing so is sometimes necessary
when you use a dual boot system and the 'other' OS can
use all the extra ram.

1.5 GB would certainly be acceptable for TinyXP which I
may be forced to run at some point.

If you put in the maxphyspage= line in your System.ini
under the [386Enh] header, that will just limit the amt of
physical ram in Win98 but will have no effect on how much
is available to the the other OS (TinyXP), I believe, which
should handle the whole 2GB

That's good news. I was worried XP would also be limited to the
1.5GB limit, and with XP, even /Tiny/ XP, 2GB is better than
1.5GB ;-]

I may also at some point try a Linux distro or even BeOS (if
things get boring enough) and while I don't think they need THAT
much memory, it's good to know the setting only affects 9x.

Another line to add to the
System.ini is ConservativeSwapFileUsage=1 under the
[386Enh] header. One reference is:
http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=12076 but
there are many others.

Yes, I have had that ever since I moved up to 1GB from 246MB. I
have the swap file set to 200MB min/max and BION, it is NEVER
used.

This line prevents Windows98 from using the swap file until
all the available ram is used. Some gamers swore that this
line made their game playing smoother and faster.

I am not a gamer so I don't know, but certainly, it would be
nice to do /everything/ in RAM - as I pretty much have been able
to, since I tend to do one thing at a time and I do not do very
complex things.

Thanks again, and for the add'l suggestions. Very useful.

t.

In message , thanatoid wrote:
"Buffalo" wrote in
:

thanatoid wrote:

SNIP

The thought of opening up the machine every time I wanted
to use the /other/ OS makes me sick, so putting both
sticks in and putting in that line is something I should
try next time I open the computer.

Doing so is sometimes necessary
when you use a dual boot system and the 'other' OS can
use all the extra ram.

1.5 GB would certainly be acceptable for TinyXP which I
may be forced to run at some point.

If you put in the maxphyspage= line in your System.ini
under the [386Enh] header, that will just limit the amt of
physical ram in Win98 but will have no effect on how much
is available to the the other OS (TinyXP), I believe, which
should handle the whole 2GB

That's good news. I was worried XP would also be limited to the
1.5GB limit, and with XP, even /Tiny/ XP, 2GB is better than
1.5GB ;-]

I may also at some point try a Linux distro or even BeOS (if
things get boring enough) and while I don't think they need THAT
much memory, it's good to know the setting only affects 9x.


IIRC theres a limit to how much BeOS can handle memory wise.Up to a gig?
shrugs
This PIII has 390MB of memory and its streaming music, has a couple of web
browsers open, and I'm reading newsfroups and its hardly taxed at *all*.
Jus Sayin[tm]




--
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people
by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and
sudden usurpations.... The means of defense against foreign danger historically
have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
-James Madison

You were right .... WAY TOO WORDY! I lost interest about 2/3 of the way
thru. Hopefully somebody else can help you out.


"thanatoid" wrote in message
...
Hi gang,

I have a Compaq EVO D510SFF. It has 2 RAM slots, which take up
to 1 GB each. It came with 2 sticks of 128MB PC 2100 DDR 266 and
it worked fine. But I found having the new blazing 512 kbps
connection and loading/making all the related network drivers
(or whatever) work does tend to eat memory, as does the
apparently faster and therefore more addictive idiotic surfing
lifeless losers like thanatoids tend to do when on the web.

So I got a 1GB stick (Shikatronics - Canadian company, Hynix
chips) and removed the other two. It worked for 6 months and
then died. Because of the kind of place I live in, I was
/absolutely/ convinced I would never get an exchange age let
alone a refund (lifetime - or any other - warranty means nothing
here, of course). So I ordered a 1 GB stick from memory-up,
which works perfectly.

Since I was interesting in hearing just WHAT the excuse the
weasels at the memory shop would come up, I went there and told
them what happened. Of course, they did not have that stick in
stock but they said it was coming and they would exchange it, no
paperwork, no questions asked. I was incredulous and
disappointed at being deprived of a chance to break the stick in
half and throw it in their faces along with a few choice words.

A month or so passed and it became (as expected) clear that a 1
GB stick of PC 2100 266 DDR memory would never be available. But
the guy told me a 400 would work fine, and they were coming next
week. Lo and behold, they DID come, and he gave me one today. No
paperwork, no questions asked - I was speechless. Samsung chips,
too! (As on the two original 128 MB sticks).

To top it all off, it passed a couple of memory tests and works
just great - I have no way of telling what SPEED it is running
at, the Compaq BIOS is lacking in some respects. The MB bus
speed is 400 so it JUST may be that they "work together" even
better - 400 sticks were not available (AFAIK) when that Compaq
model came out. It DOES seem to work a little faster, but that
could be self-suggestion or delusional thinking.

Anyway, the question. (As usual, I apologize for being so wordy.
I can't help it. I have to give all the info.)

Going back a bit, a few weeks after installing the 1GB 266 stick
which I ordered from memory-up it occurred to me I could put in
one of the 128MB 266 sticks in the other slot, and have 1152 MB
of memory instead of 1024. So I did. It also works with the 400
stick - AND it makes MORE than 1 GB total, so WHY don't the TWO
*1GB* sticks (one 266 and one 400) work together? (see below)

So I thought, why not try one of the 128MB 266 sticks with the
new 1GB 400 stick? I already knew that the 266 1GB stick from
memory-up worked with the 266 128MB stick, but since the TWO 1
GB sticks (one 266, one 400) did NOT work with each other, I
expected the 400 1 GB stick NOT to work with the 266 128MB
stick, BUT IT DOES.

Does anyone have any idea WHY?

I should add both the 266 stick from memory-up and the
Shikatronics stick have identical two sides configurations AFA
amount of chips etc.

It might be worth mentioning that while the change to 1GB WAS
worth it, I always have AT LEAST 400 MB left over, so this was
strictly speaking, unnecessary, but why not. I run Win 98SE Lite
and I changed the vcache setting to

MinFileCache=0
MaxFileCache=524288

EVEN THOUGH the original Shikatronics 266 stick which died after
6 months DID NOT REQUIRE that for booting into Windows!

The memory-up stick did - and if anyone can tell me why, there
will be one less mystery to live with.

Today when I got home I left the memory-up 1GB 266 in and put in
the 400, and it would not boot into Windows - I got the usual
"insufficient memory" message which I saw mentioned on the web
somewhere. I read a few other things, and SOME say 1 GB is all
98SE can handle, some say it can handle up to 4GB. It is
academic, since 1GB is more than enough for me. But the two
sticks (266 and 400) did /not/ work together, and I wonder why -
ESPECIALLY since the speed does not appear to be a factor since
a 128MB 266 stick works fine with the 1GB 400 stick.

Any clarifications would be appreciated.


--
Lots of theoretical butchers are alleged and other bloody eyes
are suitable, but will Pam secure that?