Network connection on Win98SE machine keeps failing

Today's experiment was to turn off completely power saving on
the Win98SE machine. Didn't do any good, but worth the
test.

Which leads me to a question about the state I'm in right now.
Our WinXP machine and our Win98SE machine can each ping
the other, by name or by number, but neither can see the other's
shared files, and the Win98SE machine can't access the net.
So what, exactly, does this mean? The wires are
presumably intact. But something [in software?] doesn't work.
There are only so many wires. The software is presumably (?)
intact, since rebooting the Win98SE machine cures all ills.
The Win98SE machine's Ethernet card is presumably prepared
to work if given a fresh start. Nothing seems to vary depending
on whether the fluorescent light that the cable passes near is
on or off. The new gateway device that came with my high speed
service seems to work, no better and no worse than the LAN hub
it replaces at keeping the Win98SE machine properly connected.
Nothing in the many MS documents I've investigated seems _quite_
relevant to my situation, and no hints in them, diligently applied,
leads to a solution.

Agh! Well, I have for some decades now regarded communications
as the most frustrating part of computer applications. Tout ne change
pas.

"Anthony Buckland" wrote in message
...
| Today's experiment was to turn off completely power saving on
| the Win98SE machine. Didn't do any good, but worth the
| test.
|
| Which leads me to a question about the state I'm in right now.
| Our WinXP machine and our Win98SE machine can each ping
| the other, by name or by number, but neither can see the other's
| shared files, and the Win98SE machine can't access the net.
| So what, exactly, does this mean? The wires are
| presumably intact. But something [in software?] doesn't work.
| There are only so many wires. The software is presumably (?)
| intact, since rebooting the Win98SE machine cures all ills.
| The Win98SE machine's Ethernet card is presumably prepared
| to work if given a fresh start. Nothing seems to vary depending
| on whether the fluorescent light that the cable passes near is
| on or off. The new gateway device that came with my high speed
| service seems to work, no better and no worse than the LAN hub
| it replaces at keeping the Win98SE machine properly connected.
| Nothing in the many MS documents I've investigated seems _quite_
| relevant to my situation, and no hints in them, diligently applied,
| leads to a solution.
|
| Agh! Well, I have for some decades now regarded communications
| as the most frustrating part of computer applications. Tout ne change
| pas.
|
|

Might check your firewalls, share settings, lease length, and, well, here's
a page of info:

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/re...NETWORKING.htm

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
_______________

"Anthony Buckland" wrote in message
...
| Today's experiment was to turn off completely power saving on
| the Win98SE machine. Didn't do any good, but worth the
| test.
|
| Which leads me to a question about the state I'm in right now.
| Our WinXP machine and our Win98SE machine can each ping
| the other, by name or by number, but neither can see the other's
| shared files, and the Win98SE machine can't access the net.
| So what, exactly, does this mean? The wires are
| presumably intact. But something [in software?] doesn't work.
| There are only so many wires. The software is presumably (?)
| intact, since rebooting the Win98SE machine cures all ills.
| The Win98SE machine's Ethernet card is presumably prepared
| to work if given a fresh start. Nothing seems to vary depending
| on whether the fluorescent light that the cable passes near is
| on or off. The new gateway device that came with my high speed
| service seems to work, no better and no worse than the LAN hub
| it replaces at keeping the Win98SE machine properly connected.
| Nothing in the many MS documents I've investigated seems _quite_
| relevant to my situation, and no hints in them, diligently applied,
| leads to a solution.
|
| Agh! Well, I have for some decades now regarded communications
| as the most frustrating part of computer applications. Tout ne change
| pas.
|
|

Might check your firewalls, share settings, lease length, and, well, here's
a page of info:

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/re...NETWORKING.htm

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
_______________

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
...
Might check your firewalls, share settings, lease length, and, well,
here's
a page of info:

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/re...NETWORKING.htm

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
_______________



Wow, that's a full plate to digest. I'll thank you now, and get back later
after I try more stuff.

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
...
Might check your firewalls, share settings, lease length, and, well,
here's
a page of info:

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/re...NETWORKING.htm

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
_______________



Wow, that's a full plate to digest. I'll thank you now, and get back later
after I try more stuff.

[i] wrote in message ...

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
...
Might check your firewalls, share settings, lease length, and, well,
here's
a page of info:

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/re...NETWORKING.htm

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
_______________



Wow, that's a full plate to digest. I'll thank you now, and get back
later
after I try more stuff.


__________________________________________________ ______________

I'm baaaack. Following up on that large collection of information took
quite a while. First point -- I've pretty much eliminated the physical
layer
as the source of my problems. I now have a spare, longer Ethernet
cable, which I'll keep against future changes in our machines and the
rooms they're in. And I have replaced the adapter board in our Win98SE
machine, a fairly miserable process considering Linksys' idea of
installation instructions and an installation CD. All to no avail other
than
to chew up some dollars and a lot of my time.

However, thanks to the many advice links, I have made some progress.
To recap, our network consists of a VAIO VGC-RB54 desktop running
WinXP v2002 with SP2, vintage 2006, and a Compaq 7AP190 running
Win98SE, vintage 2000, communicating with one another and Telus
High Speed DSL service through a 2wire 2700HG-E gateway. Everything
is wired, nothing is wireless. The VAIO has no problems, except in
communicating with the Compaq. The Compaq, on the other hand,
loses its ability to reach the Internet, its ability to find the VAIO in
Network Neighborhood, and its visibility to the VAIO via Network Places,
reliably, in a fraction of an hour after restarting. Restarting the
Compaq,
however, restores all these aspects of connectivity, without fail.

The progress I have made is in maintaining file and printer sharing
between the VAIO and the Compaq. I've shut down computer
browsing on the VAIO, so that the Compaq is now the master browser.
I wasted a lot of time trying the reverse, shutting down the browser
on the Compaq (which seemed the obvious choice). I even experimented
with shutting down _both_ browsers, which of course didn't help.
I've spent some time in the firewall on the Compaq, which AVG 7.5.
In AVG's profile switch tab of the firewall properties, I've selected
Computer in Domain for the Ethernet adapter, and Standalone
Computer (the only other choice) for dial-up. And I've put shortcuts
on the Desktop on both machines to reach the other machine's
files (to \\Compaq\my documents on the VAIO, and to
\\[the IP address]\My Documents on the Compaq); for reasons which
someone, not me, might be able to explain, this seems more
robust than Network Places under WinXP, and much more robust
than the seems-always-about-to-give-up Network Neighborhood
under Win98SE -- in fact I seem to have to keep my fingers off
Network Neighborhood in order not to mess things up.

The progress I _haven't_ made is in maintaining connectivity to the
Internet from the Compaq. Without fail, I get it back for a brief
period every time I restart Win98SE. Without fail, so to speak, it
fails soon after. I haven't timed it, but I wonder whether the failure
comes at the end of the first or an early browser cycle. Has
anyone some across such a phenomenon? And I've run out of
things to try, at my admittedly really low technical level in
networking. Part of the problem is that many of the diagnostic
programs I've read about, and tried, work only on the WinXP
machine, not under Win98SE (and haven't given me any
apparently anomalous behavior to report: the Win98SE
machine is, for instance, always pingable).

One particular thing I'd like to ask about. If restarting always
restores connectivity, how? Presumably there are particular
steps in startup which grab the gateway, or the gateway's
attention. Can any of these steps be repeated, possibly
after disabling some process (WinTasks didn't show me any
running tasks that seemed obvious candidates), to restore
the system's health? Something I could cobble together
and click on every time IE lost the net again would be a
sight less inconvenient than restarting yet again.

Before somebody brings up firewalls, I'd be very reluctant
to take down the firewall on the Win98SE machine (AVG),
since I need to keep it to use dial-up, which I can't do
without until DSL is reliable, and since it never causes any
discoverable trouble during the golden period after restart
when net connectivity works, or during the indefinitely long
period after that when file and printer sharing works.

For the interested, here are some details from Control Panel,
Network on the Win98SE machine, the Compaq:
- components: Client for Microsoft Networks; Dial-Up Adapter;
Linksys LNE 100TX(v5) Fast Ethernet Adapter; NETBEUI
- Dial-Up Adapter; NETBEUI - Linksys[etc]; TCP/IP -
Dial-Up Adapter; TCP/IP - Linksys[etc]; File and printer
sharing for Microsoft Networks.
- File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks now has
Browse Master set to Enable (while on the WinXP machine,
Administrative Services (C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.msc)
now has Computer Browser set to Disabled).
- primary network logon is Windows Logon (to avoid the
password-at-startup hassle).
- access control is Share level.
- properties of the TCP/IP-Linksys component include
- IP Address is Obtain an IP address automatically;
- Disable WINS Resolution;
- no data filled in for Gateway;
- DNS disabled;
- Allow Binding to ATM is No;
- bindings are to Client for Microsoft Networks and
to File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks.
And, again on the Win98SE machine, Internet Properties,
LAN settings has Automatically detect settings, and
Proxy server is not checked.
The specific failure in IE when connectivity is lost is
"The page cannot be displayed".

Thanks very kindly, not least to anyone with the patience
to actually read this far.

[i] wrote in message ...

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
...
Might check your firewalls, share settings, lease length, and, well,
here's
a page of info:

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/re...NETWORKING.htm

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
_______________



Wow, that's a full plate to digest. I'll thank you now, and get back
later
after I try more stuff.


__________________________________________________ ______________

I'm baaaack. Following up on that large collection of information took
quite a while. First point -- I've pretty much eliminated the physical
layer
as the source of my problems. I now have a spare, longer Ethernet
cable, which I'll keep against future changes in our machines and the
rooms they're in. And I have replaced the adapter board in our Win98SE
machine, a fairly miserable process considering Linksys' idea of
installation instructions and an installation CD. All to no avail other
than
to chew up some dollars and a lot of my time.

However, thanks to the many advice links, I have made some progress.
To recap, our network consists of a VAIO VGC-RB54 desktop running
WinXP v2002 with SP2, vintage 2006, and a Compaq 7AP190 running
Win98SE, vintage 2000, communicating with one another and Telus
High Speed DSL service through a 2wire 2700HG-E gateway. Everything
is wired, nothing is wireless. The VAIO has no problems, except in
communicating with the Compaq. The Compaq, on the other hand,
loses its ability to reach the Internet, its ability to find the VAIO in
Network Neighborhood, and its visibility to the VAIO via Network Places,
reliably, in a fraction of an hour after restarting. Restarting the
Compaq,
however, restores all these aspects of connectivity, without fail.

The progress I have made is in maintaining file and printer sharing
between the VAIO and the Compaq. I've shut down computer
browsing on the VAIO, so that the Compaq is now the master browser.
I wasted a lot of time trying the reverse, shutting down the browser
on the Compaq (which seemed the obvious choice). I even experimented
with shutting down _both_ browsers, which of course didn't help.
I've spent some time in the firewall on the Compaq, which AVG 7.5.
In AVG's profile switch tab of the firewall properties, I've selected
Computer in Domain for the Ethernet adapter, and Standalone
Computer (the only other choice) for dial-up. And I've put shortcuts
on the Desktop on both machines to reach the other machine's
files (to \\Compaq\my documents on the VAIO, and to
\\[the IP address]\My Documents on the Compaq); for reasons which
someone, not me, might be able to explain, this seems more
robust than Network Places under WinXP, and much more robust
than the seems-always-about-to-give-up Network Neighborhood
under Win98SE -- in fact I seem to have to keep my fingers off
Network Neighborhood in order not to mess things up.

The progress I _haven't_ made is in maintaining connectivity to the
Internet from the Compaq. Without fail, I get it back for a brief
period every time I restart Win98SE. Without fail, so to speak, it
fails soon after. I haven't timed it, but I wonder whether the failure
comes at the end of the first or an early browser cycle. Has
anyone some across such a phenomenon? And I've run out of
things to try, at my admittedly really low technical level in
networking. Part of the problem is that many of the diagnostic
programs I've read about, and tried, work only on the WinXP
machine, not under Win98SE (and haven't given me any
apparently anomalous behavior to report: the Win98SE
machine is, for instance, always pingable).

One particular thing I'd like to ask about. If restarting always
restores connectivity, how? Presumably there are particular
steps in startup which grab the gateway, or the gateway's
attention. Can any of these steps be repeated, possibly
after disabling some process (WinTasks didn't show me any
running tasks that seemed obvious candidates), to restore
the system's health? Something I could cobble together
and click on every time IE lost the net again would be a
sight less inconvenient than restarting yet again.

Before somebody brings up firewalls, I'd be very reluctant
to take down the firewall on the Win98SE machine (AVG),
since I need to keep it to use dial-up, which I can't do
without until DSL is reliable, and since it never causes any
discoverable trouble during the golden period after restart
when net connectivity works, or during the indefinitely long
period after that when file and printer sharing works.

For the interested, here are some details from Control Panel,
Network on the Win98SE machine, the Compaq:
- components: Client for Microsoft Networks; Dial-Up Adapter;
Linksys LNE 100TX(v5) Fast Ethernet Adapter; NETBEUI
- Dial-Up Adapter; NETBEUI - Linksys[etc]; TCP/IP -
Dial-Up Adapter; TCP/IP - Linksys[etc]; File and printer
sharing for Microsoft Networks.
- File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks now has
Browse Master set to Enable (while on the WinXP machine,
Administrative Services (C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.msc)
now has Computer Browser set to Disabled).
- primary network logon is Windows Logon (to avoid the
password-at-startup hassle).
- access control is Share level.
- properties of the TCP/IP-Linksys component include
- IP Address is Obtain an IP address automatically;
- Disable WINS Resolution;
- no data filled in for Gateway;
- DNS disabled;
- Allow Binding to ATM is No;
- bindings are to Client for Microsoft Networks and
to File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks.
And, again on the Win98SE machine, Internet Properties,
LAN settings has Automatically detect settings, and
Proxy server is not checked.
The specific failure in IE when connectivity is lost is
"The page cannot be displayed".

Thanks very kindly, not least to anyone with the patience
to actually read this far.

"[i] wrote in message ...[i]

wrote in message ...

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
...
Might check your firewalls, share settings, lease length, and, well,
here's
a page of info:

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/re...NETWORKING.htm

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
_______________



Wow, that's a full plate to digest. I'll thank you now, and get back
later
after I try more stuff.


__________________________________________________ ______________

I'm baaaack. Following up on that large collection of information took
quite a while. First point -- I've pretty much eliminated the physical
layer
as the source of my problems. I now have a spare, longer Ethernet
cable, which I'll keep against future changes in our machines and the
rooms they're in. And I have replaced the adapter board in our Win98SE
machine, a fairly miserable process considering Linksys' idea of
installation instructions and an installation CD. All to no avail other
than
to chew up some dollars and a lot of my time.

However, thanks to the many advice links, I have made some progress.
...

Finally, after spending some dollars and an inordinate amount of my
time, and having found no lasting solution despite the voluminous and
(where relevant) helpful advice available on the net, I gave up and,
despite having to give up a couple of venerable facilities such as my
tape drive, I installed WinXP Home Edition on the Win98 SE machine.
Conversion took a day of preparation (chasing down the WinXP tool's
list of incompatabilities and necessary new drivers, etc), a few hours
of installation, and another day of dealing with matters like reinstalling
software and tweaking the configuration. The machine joined the
network and has stayed connected and functional ever since. I was
lucky the machine had the resources to handle XP.

So long, and thanks for all the fish (ask a friend if that one seems
obscure).

"[i] wrote in message ...[i]

wrote in message ...

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
...
Might check your firewalls, share settings, lease length, and, well,
here's
a page of info:

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/re...NETWORKING.htm

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real
world"
_______________



Wow, that's a full plate to digest. I'll thank you now, and get back
later
after I try more stuff.


__________________________________________________ ______________

I'm baaaack. Following up on that large collection of information took
quite a while. First point -- I've pretty much eliminated the physical
layer
as the source of my problems. I now have a spare, longer Ethernet
cable, which I'll keep against future changes in our machines and the
rooms they're in. And I have replaced the adapter board in our Win98SE
machine, a fairly miserable process considering Linksys' idea of
installation instructions and an installation CD. All to no avail other
than
to chew up some dollars and a lot of my time.

However, thanks to the many advice links, I have made some progress.
...

Finally, after spending some dollars and an inordinate amount of my
time, and having found no lasting solution despite the voluminous and
(where relevant) helpful advice available on the net, I gave up and,
despite having to give up a couple of venerable facilities such as my
tape drive, I installed WinXP Home Edition on the Win98 SE machine.
Conversion took a day of preparation (chasing down the WinXP tool's
list of incompatabilities and necessary new drivers, etc), a few hours
of installation, and another day of dealing with matters like reinstalling
software and tweaking the configuration. The machine joined the
network and has stayed connected and functional ever since. I was
lucky the machine had the resources to handle XP.

So long, and thanks for all the fish (ask a friend if that one seems
obscure).