HDD upgrade - no boot - 48LBA? KM400-M2

legg wrote:
On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:56:06 -0400, 98 Guy wrote:

Your computer's clock is off by an hour, btw.

legg wrote:

I have the W98 2ed normally in primary master, the W2K SP4 in
primary slave positions. Optical and bulk data on the secondary
IDE.

The 80G drives are WD WD800JB-00JJC0 ca 2006
The new drives are WD WD1600AAJB-00PVA0 ca 2008

As suggested by Mr.Blanton and recently noted to him, the new
drives will boot if the primary slave position is vacant.

So you are replacing two 80-gb drives with two 160-gb drives - yes?

Both connected on the same ribbon cable to the motherboard primary IDE
connector?

And the motherboard won't boot with that setup?

Boot a DOS floppy with fdisk and run fdisk and choose option (5) to
see what drive choices it presents to you. Then choose option (4)
and check to see that there is at least one partition or volume on
the desired boot drive that is marked with "A" under the Status
column. "A" means "Active", as in it's a bootable partition or
volume.

If you can't boot a DOS floppy with both 160 gb drives connected as
master/slave, then move one of the drives to the second IDE interface
and try again.

I have used MANY of the 80-gb Western Digital drives, and quite a few
of the 320 gb drives, but I don't think I've ever had my hands on the
160 gb versions. I have a few Seagate 160 gb drives - but they're
SATA.

I stuck the 'new' W98 Hdd in sec slave, as suggested, with the source
w98 hdd in primary master, and w2K in primary slave and booted up into
the usual W2K alt OS. W2K disc management shows the old W98 as H:,
healthy and boot; the new drive as C:, healthy and active.


You don't say what the disc management says about the W2K partition. Can
it be it also is an Active partition? If so, BIOS may become confused
which one to boot when both the W98 & the W2K hard drives are on the
same cable. And it does sound like you are early enough in the boot
process for that to be the case.

Going by this...

http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/window...kmantools.html
Management Console Tools
===Quote==========
Healthy (boot) - Active primary partition on the first drive.
Healthy (system) - if same as boot volume, it is called "Healthy
(boot)".
===EOQ===========

....I'd think your W2K partition is "Healthy (boot)" -- which would mean
it's Active. So, you have to remove the Active status of the W98
partition. (Note: when the W98 partition is no longer Active it will no
longer boot when it is alone on the cable or when it is with the optical
drive on the secondary cable.)

After this, it looks to me you have a drive letter problem too. I think
the W2K partition needs the W98 partition to have letter H - not C.
Maybe post your Boot.ini for inspection. But I won't be much help. Stick
with Blanton, really, with that "clear sig" maybe.

Swap around their positions, as WDLG intended, and there's no boot.
Should be able to do something with the W2K recovery console, if I can
only figure out what that is.

RL

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

On 11/5/2010 11:31, legg wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 20:49:19 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:
snip
Are you getting to the boot menu where it displays your boot choices? 98
and 2K?

Not with both drives present in intended slots.


Boot.ini will be in the root of the 98 volume and is easily edited from
DOS. If you need help post the contents.

There are quite a few tools to clear or edit the NT disk signature,
BootitNG, Acronis TI, and later versions of MS diskpart to name a few,
but a "trick" you can use is to clear the MBRs with a 98 version of fdisk.

At a DOS prompt

fdisk /cmbr 1
fdisk /cmbr 2

would clear the sigs on the first two disks.

Can't boot to floppy, drive or CD with drives in intended slots.


To understand the significance of the signature google it.
Here's one of the clearer explanations;

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm


Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec
slave W2K present.

With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not
allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98
disk still identified as H:\ in W2K.

Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2'
with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again.

Everything needs to be set up before you boot to Windows. News
signatures will be written, but if you don't do it correctly, the old
sig will be put back.

Do all this before booting Windows.

Clear sig on both drives.
edit boot.ini
connect the drives in the desired config

Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to
enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the
keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail'
message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered
into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after
this message.

You might have to move the other disk to the other controller.

On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, legg wrote:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 20:49:19 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:
snip
Are you getting to the boot menu where it displays your boot choices? 98
and 2K?

Not with both drives present in intended slots.


Boot.ini will be in the root of the 98 volume and is easily edited from
DOS. If you need help post the contents.

There are quite a few tools to clear or edit the NT disk signature,
BootitNG, Acronis TI, and later versions of MS diskpart to name a few,
but a "trick" you can use is to clear the MBRs with a 98 version of fdisk.

At a DOS prompt

fdisk /cmbr 1
fdisk /cmbr 2

would clear the sigs on the first two disks.

Can't boot to floppy, drive or CD with drives in intended slots.


To understand the significance of the signature google it.
Here's one of the clearer explanations;

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm


Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec
slave W2K present.

With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not
allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98
disk still identified as H:\ in W2K.

Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2'
with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again.

Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to
enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the
keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail'
message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered
into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after
this message.

RL

On 11/5/2010 14:26, legg wrote:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:10:08 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:

On 11/5/2010 11:31, legg wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, wrote:
snip
At a DOS prompt

fdisk /cmbr 1
fdisk /cmbr 2

would clear the sigs on the first two disks.

Can't boot to floppy, drive or CD with drives in intended slots.


To understand the significance of the signature google it.
Here's one of the clearer explanations;

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm


Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec
slave W2K present.

With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not
allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98
disk still identified as H:\ in W2K.

Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2'
with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again.

Everything needs to be set up before you boot to Windows. News
signatures will be written, but if you don't do it correctly, the old
sig will be put back.

Do all this before booting Windows.

Clear sig on both drives.
edit boot.ini
connect the drives in the desired config

Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to
enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the
keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail'
message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered
into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after
this message.

You might have to move the other disk to the other controller.

By 'the other' you mean source w98, target w98, or W2K/


Thought you only had two physical HDDs? Depending on your BIOS, the
active/booting 98 partition will probably have to remain on the
primary/master. The idea is to put them on different controllers since
there may be a conflict with both being on the same controller.

Again, Boot.ini will have to be edited.

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:10:08 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:

On 11/5/2010 11:31, legg wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, wrote:
snip
At a DOS prompt

fdisk /cmbr 1
fdisk /cmbr 2

would clear the sigs on the first two disks.

Can't boot to floppy, drive or CD with drives in intended slots.


To understand the significance of the signature google it.
Here's one of the clearer explanations;

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm


Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec
slave W2K present.

With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not
allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98
disk still identified as H:\ in W2K.

Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2'
with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again.

Everything needs to be set up before you boot to Windows. News
signatures will be written, but if you don't do it correctly, the old
sig will be put back.

Do all this before booting Windows.

Clear sig on both drives.
edit boot.ini
connect the drives in the desired config

Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to
enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the
keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail'
message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered
into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after
this message.

You might have to move the other disk to the other controller.

By 'the other' you mean source w98, target w98, or W2K/

RL

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:10:08 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:

On 11/5/2010 11:31, legg wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, wrote:

snip
Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec
slave W2K present.

With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not
allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98
disk still identified as H:\ in W2K.

Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2'
with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again.

Everything needs to be set up before you boot to Windows. News
signatures will be written, but if you don't do it correctly, the old
sig will be put back.

Do all this before booting Windows.

Clear sig on both drives.
edit boot.ini
connect the drives in the desired config

Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to
enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the
keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail'
message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered
into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after
this message.

You might have to move the other disk to the other controller.


I can prevent writing to the W98 boot sector by simply refusing
permission, or at least I'm given that impression when booting to W98
after a signature clearance.

The present boot.ini file should serve, as neither locations of the
W98 or W2k OS are intended to change, physically. I've marked each
instance (in the text announcement), so that I can tell which file is
being processed, or if it has been replaced. No issues with this file
(when booting is possible), so far.
...........................
At this point, however, after zeroing discs, the W2K installation
appears to be broken. When I try to boot into it now, I get past the
security cntrl-alt-del and password entry, only to be returned to the
security cntrl-alt-delete window again. There is a long
black-screen-with-cursor wait the first time this screen is returned,
but quicker response on subsequent OS farts.

Have attempted an emergency repair (no ERDisk option) with no change
in behaviour. I'm exercising usenet from the SW on the source W98 disk
now, before contemplating other methods of W2K repair, using the W2K
CD or start-up discs. Issues with the W98 back-up target will have to
wait.

The W2K disc, by the way, is old - courtesy of a long-ago-expired MSDN
subscription and still labelled NT5. I suspect that not all typical
W2K repair or recovery options are available when using it, but it has
served previously. However, anything requiring updating to SP4 on
'Windows Update' could be a serious issue, as I believe there is no
longer support for the W2K OS either, nowadays.

I appear to be losing the patient.

RL

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:08:15 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:

On 11/5/2010 14:26, legg wrote:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:10:08 -0400, Bill Blanton
wrote:

On 11/5/2010 11:31, legg wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 21:12:00 -0500, wrote:
snip
At a DOS prompt

fdisk /cmbr 1
fdisk /cmbr 2

would clear the sigs on the first two disks.

Can't boot to floppy, drive or CD with drives in intended slots.


To understand the significance of the signature google it.
Here's one of the clearer explanations;

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm


Will try door number 3 - the W98 start-up 'fdisk /mb', without sec
slave W2K present.

With just the target W98 drive in pri master, an fdisk /mbr did not
allow subsequent boot with the W2K drive reinserted. The source W98
disk still identified as H:\ in W2K.

Will try to clear W2K mbr by using W98 start-up disk 'fdisk /cmbr 2'
with the bootable combination, and try the unbootable pair again.

Everything needs to be set up before you boot to Windows. News
signatures will be written, but if you don't do it correctly, the old
sig will be put back.

Do all this before booting Windows.

Clear sig on both drives.
edit boot.ini
connect the drives in the desired config

Further notes on the non-bootable freeze state - it is possible to
enter set-up in this state, after a 'long' delay in response to the
keyboard. Re 'long' delay - the 'primary master hard disk fail'
message is issued 90 seconds after the non-bootable state is entered
into. It just seems like forever. Didn't try entering set-up after
this message.

You might have to move the other disk to the other controller.

By 'the other' you mean source w98, target w98, or W2K/


Thought you only had two physical HDDs? Depending on your BIOS, the
active/booting 98 partition will probably have to remain on the
primary/master. The idea is to put them on different controllers since
there may be a conflict with both being on the same controller.

Again, Boot.ini will have to be edited.

I have the three listed above currently in play.

I can zero the W98 target when it's solo in pri master.
I can zero the W98 source and W2K (option) in primary master and
primary slave.

That's what I did, without resolving the boot freeze when W98 target
was returned to pri master with W2K in pri slave.

RL

"legg" wrote in message
...
I can prevent writing to the W98 boot sector by simply refusing
permission, or at least I'm given that impression when booting to W98
after a signature clearance.

The present boot.ini file should serve, as neither locations of the
W98 or W2k OS are intended to change, physically. I've marked each
instance (in the text announcement), so that I can tell which file is
being processed, or if it has been replaced. No issues with this file
(when booting is possible), so far.
..........................
At this point, however, after zeroing discs, the W2K installation
appears to be broken. When I try to boot into it now, I get past the
security cntrl-alt-del and password entry, only to be returned to the
security cntrl-alt-delete window again. There is a long
black-screen-with-cursor wait the first time this screen is returned,
but quicker response on subsequent OS farts.
snip


Drive letter assignment changed?

Unable to log on if the boot partition drive letter has changed
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249321

--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+
http://dts-l.net/

On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:00:41 -0400, "glee"
wrote:

"legg" wrote in message
.. .
I can prevent writing to the W98 boot sector by simply refusing
permission, or at least I'm given that impression when booting to W98
after a signature clearance.

The present boot.ini file should serve, as neither locations of the
W98 or W2k OS are intended to change, physically. I've marked each
instance (in the text announcement), so that I can tell which file is
being processed, or if it has been replaced. No issues with this file
(when booting is possible), so far.
..........................
At this point, however, after zeroing discs, the W2K installation
appears to be broken. When I try to boot into it now, I get past the
security cntrl-alt-del and password entry, only to be returned to the
security cntrl-alt-delete window again. There is a long
black-screen-with-cursor wait the first time this screen is returned,
but quicker response on subsequent OS farts.
snip


Drive letter assignment changed?

Unable to log on if the boot partition drive letter has changed
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249321

I just looooove MS support docs. Can you log on as administrator, if
the problem you're trying to solve is logging on? Unfortunately, this
machine is not on a network - running regedt32 requires a W2K or later
OS to run from, as well.

Of course they're not anticipating people intentionally wiping mbrs.
The only un-networked action suggested is removing recently cloned
drives. The source W98 HD isn'y the clone.

Might be able to use the

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223188/

link to rename drive H:\ to C:\, without rewriting signatures, if I'm
ever back in that working condition. Was reluctant to start editing
the registry while the main boot freeze issue dominated.

I'm going to see if the recovery console will do anything first.

RL

RL

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 16:40:31 -0500, legg wrote:

On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:00:41 -0400, "glee"
wrote:

"legg" wrote in message
. ..
I can prevent writing to the W98 boot sector by simply refusing
permission, or at least I'm given that impression when booting to W98
after a signature clearance.

The present boot.ini file should serve, as neither locations of the
W98 or W2k OS are intended to change, physically. I've marked each
instance (in the text announcement), so that I can tell which file is
being processed, or if it has been replaced. No issues with this file
(when booting is possible), so far.
..........................
At this point, however, after zeroing discs, the W2K installation
appears to be broken. When I try to boot into it now, I get past the
security cntrl-alt-del and password entry, only to be returned to the
security cntrl-alt-delete window again. There is a long
black-screen-with-cursor wait the first time this screen is returned,
but quicker response on subsequent OS farts.
snip


Drive letter assignment changed?

Unable to log on if the boot partition drive letter has changed
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249321

I just looooove MS support docs. Can you log on as administrator, if
the problem you're trying to solve is logging on? Unfortunately, this
machine is not on a network - running regedt32 requires a W2K or later
OS to run from, as well.

Of course they're not anticipating people intentionally wiping mbrs.
The only un-networked action suggested is removing recently cloned
drives. The source W98 HD isn'y the clone.

Might be able to use the

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223188/

link to rename drive H:\ to C:\, without rewriting signatures, if I'm
ever back in that working condition. Was reluctant to start editing
the registry while the main boot freeze issue dominated.

I'm going to see if the recovery console will do anything first.

Can't log on to the recovery console. Same issue, I guess.

RL