A screen question.

In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?

What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your
part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with wikipedia,
and it's a lot more complicated than I thought - so I'll go with my
original thought, that it means the lenses in your eyes mean you see the
world as either stretched or compressed vertically - circles appear as
ovals, and people appear either tall and thin or short and fat - and
your glasses correct for this. And you were wondering if it's possible
to find a monitor you can use without wearing your glasses.

Depending on your degree of astigmatism, an old CRT monitor with height
and/or width controls might be of use, but not only will those now be
hard to find, but I don't think the adjustment is very much.

An alternative would be to deliberately set your graphics card
(including the in-built one if it's a laptop) to a resolution that's the
wrong aspect ratio for your monitor. I've seen people do this often
enough in practice, by mistake (most commonly feeding a widescreen
monitor with a 4:3 signal); it had never occurred to me that it might
actually be useful!

If your astigmatism means you see the world stretched vertically, then
using a widescreen monitor (the common type nowadays), but with the
graphics card set to suit a 4:3 monitor, will give you fat pictures. If
you naturally see the world as short and fat, then using a widescreen
mode on a 4:3 monitor (you can still get them, I think - just harder to
find. Should be able to find them second-hand no problem!) should help.

Three problems with this "solution":

0. With any monitor that has a "native resolution", i. e. pixels, which
means any modern flat-screen monitor, using it at other than its native
resolution (or an integral fraction thereof) will result in _some_
blurring. This may still be acceptable as the cost for not wearing your
glasses. (It won't apply to a CRT monitor!)

1. Some modern monitors and graphics cards talk to each other, which
might mean that the graphics card knows what shape the monitor is, and
may refuse to offer "incorrect" resolutions. To get round this, you
might have to do one or more of the following: select "generic" rather
than specific monitor; use analogue (SVGA) rather than anything more
recent (IMO, the difference is far less than claimed in most cases - not
visible to me); even with SVGA, you might have to cut a wire/pin.

2. The range of ratio "corrections" (distortions) available will be
limited - possibly only to the difference between 16:9 and 4:3. You can
expand the range somewhat by turning your monitor sideways: modern OSs
(I think XP on, possibly earlier) have the ability to turn the picture
sideways, though how to invoke it isn't widely known. (Sometimes it's as
simple as the arrow keys with other keys.)

There are utilities that can force your graphics card to output
non-standard resolutions; I imagine how well these work varies from card
to card. (Note that in extreme cases this _could_ damage the monitor,
though I think only for very old CRT ones - modern ones, including later
CRT ones, usually detect "out-of-range" feeds, and pop up a notice to
that effect on screen, or at least just go blank, or display an unlocked
picture.)

I'd say it's definitely worth investigating these avenues - conventional
monitors (of the two shapes) used with unorthodox resolution settings,
and the possibility of using them sideways.

P. S.: before messing with resolutions (including going sideways), I'd
say it's worth getting hold of one of the free utilities that can store
your icon positions, and put them back: changing resolution does tend to
muck them up. I normally use iconoid (https://www.sillysot.com/ - yes,
that really is the URL!); another, slightly quirkier one but the only
one I know that actually has the option to save the settings in a real
file rather than buried in the registry somewhere, is desktopOK.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

science is not intended to be foolproof. Science is about crawling toward the
truth over time. - Scott Adams, 2015-2-2

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?

What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with wikipedia,
and it's a lot more complicated than I thought - so I'll go with my
original thought, that it means the lenses in your eyes mean you see the
world as either stretched or compressed vertically - circles appear as
ovals, and people appear either tall and thin or short and fat - and your
glasses correct for this. And you were wondering if it's possible to find
a monitor you can use without wearing your glasses.

Depending on your degree of astigmatism, an old CRT monitor with height
and/or width controls might be of use, but not only will those now be hard
to find, but I don't think the adjustment is very much.

An alternative would be to deliberately set your graphics card (including
the in-built one if it's a laptop) to a resolution that's the wrong aspect
ratio for your monitor. I've seen people do this often enough in practice,
by mistake (most commonly feeding a widescreen monitor with a 4:3 signal);
it had never occurred to me that it might actually be useful!

If your astigmatism means you see the world stretched vertically, then
using a widescreen monitor (the common type nowadays), but with the
graphics card set to suit a 4:3 monitor, will give you fat pictures. If
you naturally see the world as short and fat, then using a widescreen mode
on a 4:3 monitor (you can still get them, I think - just harder to find.
Should be able to find them second-hand no problem!) should help.

Three problems with this "solution":

0. With any monitor that has a "native resolution", i. e. pixels, which
means any modern flat-screen monitor, using it at other than its native
resolution (or an integral fraction thereof) will result in _some_
blurring. This may still be acceptable as the cost for not wearing your
glasses. (It won't apply to a CRT monitor!)

1. Some modern monitors and graphics cards talk to each other, which might
mean that the graphics card knows what shape the monitor is, and may
refuse to offer "incorrect" resolutions. To get round this, you might have
to do one or more of the following: select "generic" rather than specific
monitor; use analogue (SVGA) rather than anything more recent (IMO, the
difference is far less than claimed in most cases - not visible to me);
even with SVGA, you might have to cut a wire/pin.

2. The range of ratio "corrections" (distortions) available will be
limited - possibly only to the difference between 16:9 and 4:3. You can
expand the range somewhat by turning your monitor sideways: modern OSs (I
think XP on, possibly earlier) have the ability to turn the picture
sideways, though how to invoke it isn't widely known. (Sometimes it's as
simple as the arrow keys with other keys.)

There are utilities that can force your graphics card to output
non-standard resolutions; I imagine how well these work varies from card
to card. (Note that in extreme cases this _could_ damage the monitor,
though I think only for very old CRT ones - modern ones, including later
CRT ones, usually detect "out-of-range" feeds, and pop up a notice to that
effect on screen, or at least just go blank, or display an unlocked
picture.)

I'd say it's definitely worth investigating these avenues - conventional
monitors (of the two shapes) used with unorthodox resolution settings, and
the possibility of using them sideways.

P. S.: before messing with resolutions (including going sideways), I'd say
it's worth getting hold of one of the free utilities that can store your
icon positions, and put them back: changing resolution does tend to muck
them up. I normally use iconoid (https://www.sillysot.com/ - yes, that
really is the URL!); another, slightly quirkier one but the only one I
know that actually has the option to save the settings in a real file
rather than buried in the registry somewhere, is desktopOK.

Unfortunately, unless your astigmatism is equal in both eyes, and your
vision is equal in both eyes as well, there's not much you can do to adjust
a monitor for that. As one who has 20/200 vision in one eye, 20/400 in the
other, and moderately bad astigmatism in only one eye (my "good" one, of
course), I can absolutely state that there is nothing that can be done to a
monitor that would help me see anything clearer without my specs :-)
--

SC Tom

In message , SC Tom writes:


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?

What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with
[]
Unfortunately, unless your astigmatism is equal in both eyes, and your
vision is equal in both eyes as well, there's not much you can do to
adjust a monitor for that. As one who has 20/200 vision in one eye,
20/400 in the other, and moderately bad astigmatism in only one eye (my
"good" one, of course), I can absolutely state that there is nothing
that can be done to a monitor that would help me see anything clearer
without my specs :-)

The original poster Peter Jason didn't say he only had it in one eye.

I you're still reading, Peter - what _is_ the nature of your
astigmatism: is it different _gain_ in the X and Y directions (making
circles look oval), different _focus_ (as described by Johnny and
Wikipedia), or something else? And _are_ your eyes different (to each
other)?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Norman Tebbitt has the irritating quality of being much nicer in person than
he is in print. - Clive Anderson, RT 1996/10/12-18

On 9/8/2019 9:43 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , SC Tom writes:


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?

What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with
[]
Unfortunately, unless your astigmatism is equal in both eyes, and your
vision is equal in both eyes as well, there's not much you can do to
adjust a monitor for that. As one who has 20/200 vision in one eye,
20/400 in the other, and moderately bad astigmatism in only one eye (my
"good" one, of course), I can absolutely state that there is nothing
that can be done to a monitor that would help me see anything clearer
without my specs :-)

The original poster Peter Jason didn't say he only had it in one eye.

I you're still reading, Peter - what _is_ the nature of your
astigmatism: is it different _gain_ in the X and Y directions (making
circles look oval), different _focus_ (as described by Johnny and
Wikipedia), or something else? And _are_ your eyes different (to each
other)?


Astigmatism can be caused by an irregularity in the eye's cornea or
lens. It might be in only one eye. If it is in both eyes, it is often
not the same in each eye.

While the usual irregularity is a curvature that differs between the
vertical and horizontal, it is also possible that the curvature is "off"
on a diagonal. In some cases, however, the irregularity can be a
waviness in the cornea or lens.

Given all this, I really do not think any adjustment to a computer
monitor would substitute for eye glasses, contact lenses, or eye surgery.

--
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

Immigration authorities arrested 680 undocumented aliens in meat
processing facilities in Mississippi. Employing someone who is not
legally in the U.S. is also illegal. How many of the EMPLOYERS are
being criminally charged? If none, why not?

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 17:43:25 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , SC Tom writes:


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?

What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with
[]
Unfortunately, unless your astigmatism is equal in both eyes, and your
vision is equal in both eyes as well, there's not much you can do to
adjust a monitor for that. As one who has 20/200 vision in one eye,
20/400 in the other, and moderately bad astigmatism in only one eye (my
"good" one, of course), I can absolutely state that there is nothing
that can be done to a monitor that would help me see anything clearer
without my specs :-)

The original poster Peter Jason didn't say he only had it in one eye.

I you're still reading, Peter - what _is_ the nature of your
astigmatism: is it different _gain_ in the X and Y directions (making
circles look oval), different _focus_ (as described by Johnny and
Wikipedia), or something else? And _are_ your eyes different (to each
other)?

Here are the current facts....
https://postimg.cc/QKKrrdpx
Of course I have the latest progressive lenses which work very well.
Adjustable eyeglasses can work but not too well at my level of
corrections.

Looking down onto the desk while writing & then up to look at the
screen might require a set of "inverse" progressives such as billiard
players use, and this might be the solution in my case.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

The original poster Peter Jason didn't say he only had [astigmatism]
in one eye.

Are your palm prints exactly the same for your right hand as for your
left hand? Nope. Same for your right and left fingerprints for the
matching fingers. Same for your eyes. Irregularities in the shape of
the cornea that generate refractive error (astigmatism) do not progress
equally in both eyes because the tissues are separate, not common. Many
folks with astigmatism have it in only one eye. While astigmatism
usually occurs concurrently in both eyes (bilateral), it is not
necessarily equal in both eyes (i.e., it can be asymmetrical).
Astigmatism in only one eye is often caused by injury (which is my case
due to a cat scratching my right eye when I was a kid) or by
degenerative eye conditions or disease; however, eyes do not degenerate
equally. No pair of disconnected tissue will degenerate equally.

Regardless of astigmatism, how often do eyeglass wearers get exactly the
same prescription for both eyes? Most users don't even know the specs
for their specs; that is, they go to the optometrist, get their exam,
and get their eyeglasses, and the bill they get never mentions the
sphere, cylinder, and axis measurements. If they want to keep their own
history of how their eyesight has degenerated, they have to ask for a
copy of the measurements to know what they are. Several times when I've
asked for the specs, they'd look mildly surpised and asked "Why do you
need to know?". I'd respond "Why shouldn't I know?"

In any case, for a monitor to correct vision impairment would mean the
screen would need to place a lens at your face to correct the refractive
error at the distance for where the pixels are painted. Don't know
about you, but having a large bubble of glass protrude from the monitor
against which I would have to press my face seems extreme compared to
putting on a pair of eyeglasses.

Remember the function of the lens is to correct your focus at a specific
distance. My eyeglasses for outside and driving would be impossible to
use for reading or the computer monitor, so I use prescription
eyeglasses for reading and computer. Likewise, my reading eyeglasses
would make everything slightly out of focus at distances. I did this
once when I went to a reunion and wore the wrong eyeglasses. They look
almost identical. I was wondering why my vision suddenly got so bad
beyond my arm's length. I don't like bifocals. I get a sore neck
tilting back my head to use the bottom lens portion for computer monitor
viewing.

On 2019-09-14 8:56 a.m., VanguardLH wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

The original poster Peter Jason didn't say he only had [astigmatism]
in one eye.

Are your palm prints exactly the same for your right hand as for your
left hand? Nope. Same for your right and left fingerprints for the
matching fingers. Same for your eyes. Irregularities in the shape of
the cornea that generate refractive error (astigmatism) do not progress
equally in both eyes because the tissues are separate, not common. Many
folks with astigmatism have it in only one eye. While astigmatism
usually occurs concurrently in both eyes (bilateral), it is not
necessarily equal in both eyes (i.e., it can be asymmetrical).
Astigmatism in only one eye is often caused by injury (which is my case
due to a cat scratching my right eye when I was a kid) or by
degenerative eye conditions or disease; however, eyes do not degenerate
equally. No pair of disconnected tissue will degenerate equally.

Regardless of astigmatism, how often do eyeglass wearers get exactly the
same prescription for both eyes? Most users don't even know the specs
for their specs; that is, they go to the optometrist, get their exam,
and get their eyeglasses, and the bill they get never mentions the
sphere, cylinder, and axis measurements. If they want to keep their own
history of how their eyesight has degenerated, they have to ask for a
copy of the measurements to know what they are. Several times when I've
asked for the specs, they'd look mildly surpised and asked "Why do you
need to know?". I'd respond "Why shouldn't I know?"

In any case, for a monitor to correct vision impairment would mean the
screen would need to place a lens at your face to correct the refractive
error at the distance for where the pixels are painted. Don't know
about you, but having a large bubble of glass protrude from the monitor
against which I would have to press my face seems extreme compared to
putting on a pair of eyeglasses.

Remember the function of the lens is to correct your focus at a specific
distance. My eyeglasses for outside and driving would be impossible to
use for reading or the computer monitor, so I use prescription
eyeglasses for reading and computer. Likewise, my reading eyeglasses
would make everything slightly out of focus at distances. I did this
once when I went to a reunion and wore the wrong eyeglasses. They look
almost identical. I was wondering why my vision suddenly got so bad
beyond my arm's length. I don't like bifocals. I get a sore neck
tilting back my head to use the bottom lens portion for computer monitor
viewing.


I am in the same boat regards sore neck syndrome, especially reading the
top of the display, my bifocals are +9.
My ophthalmologist always gives me a copy of the Specs and also sends a
copy to my medical Doctor.

Rene

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

The original poster Peter Jason didn't say he only had [astigmatism]
in one eye.

Are your palm prints exactly the same for your right hand as for your
left hand? Nope. Same for your right and left fingerprints for the
matching fingers. Same for your eyes. Irregularities in the shape of
the cornea that generate refractive error (astigmatism) do not progress
equally in both eyes because the tissues are separate, not common. Many
folks with astigmatism have it in only one eye. While astigmatism
usually occurs concurrently in both eyes (bilateral), it is not
necessarily equal in both eyes (i.e., it can be asymmetrical).
Astigmatism in only one eye is often caused by injury (which is my case
due to a cat scratching my right eye when I was a kid) or by
degenerative eye conditions or disease; however, eyes do not degenerate
equally. No pair of disconnected tissue will degenerate equally.

Like you (though for different reason - mine's from birth), I have
dissimilar eyes (to the extent that I don't have 3D vision; both eyes
worked fine when I was younger, but my brain never developed the ability
to use both images at once). I will admit I'd got used to thinking
_most_ other people had eyes that were more similar than mine are.

Regardless of astigmatism, how often do eyeglass wearers get exactly the
same prescription for both eyes? Most users don't even know the specs
for their specs; that is, they go to the optometrist, get their exam,
and get their eyeglasses, and the bill they get never mentions the

That's _probably_ still true here (UK), but less so: several of our
optometry chains offer free eye tests as a marketing exercise from time
to time, and also certain classes (children below a certain age,
pensioners above one, and I think those on certain kinds of benefit
[welfare]) are entitled to free ones too. So the more savvy of us - or,
even those entitled to free glasses as well as tests, but who don't like
the options (frames, coatings, ...) offered at a particular branch - go
for a free test, then take the prescription elsewhere.

sphere, cylinder, and axis measurements. If they want to keep their own

One that's often left off the card is intraocular distance, i. e. how
far apart your pupils are.

history of how their eyesight has degenerated, they have to ask for a
copy of the measurements to know what they are. Several times when I've
asked for the specs, they'd look mildly surpised and asked "Why do you
need to know?". I'd respond "Why shouldn't I know?"

Indeed!

In any case, for a monitor to correct vision impairment would mean the
screen would need to place a lens at your face to correct the refractive
error at the distance for where the pixels are painted. Don't know
about you, but having a large bubble of glass protrude from the monitor
against which I would have to press my face seems extreme compared to
putting on a pair of eyeglasses.

With the one exception of the sort of astigmatism that is purely an
aspect ratio distortion, and similar in both eyes. A monitor and
graphics card combination _could_ sort that, by simply using the "wrong"
ratio - _if_ a ratio "error" that countermatched the astigmatism was
achievable (including by rotating the monitor if necessary). _Maybe_
that type of astigmatism is actually very rare; I don't know. I based my
naïve thoughts on the matter on being told (decades ago) that the reason
some famous painters painted pictures of a stretched world (e. g. tall
thin people) was that they had astigmatism. (I was always suspicious of
that explanation, because surely if they had, and looked at a picture
they'd painted in that manner, it'd still look wrong to them.)

Remember the function of the lens is to correct your focus at a specific

One function ...

distance. My eyeglasses for outside and driving would be impossible to

.... and for most practical glasses, for a _range_ of distances - though
ones for specific occupations, including display screen use, may be
optimised for quite a narrow range.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

As for cooking, what a bore that is. It's such a faff, thinking of what to
have, buying it and cooking it and clearing up, then all you do is eat it -
and have to start all over again next day. Hunter Davies, RT 2017/2/4-10

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 11:08:35 +0100
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?

What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your
part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with
wikipedia, and it's a lot more complicated than I thought - so I'll
go with my original thought, that it means the lenses in your eyes
mean you see the world as either stretched or compressed vertically -
circles appear as ovals, and people appear either tall and thin or
short and fat - and your glasses correct for this. And you were
wondering if it's possible to find a monitor you can use without
wearing your glasses.

I have astigmatism and that is not how the world appears, nothing is
compressed or stretched.

In my case when looking at the letter E on an eye chart, the vertical
line is sharp and clear, but the horizontal lines are blurry.

Fortunately my eyesight is correctable to 20/20.

On 2019-09-08 03:08, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Peter Jason
writes:
Hi, I wear glasses for astigmatism etc and I wonder if it's possible
to buy a monitor whose screen can be adjusted for this & similar
conditions?

What a fascinating question, and excellent lateral thinking on your part!

I thought I knew what astigmatism was, and just checked with wikipedia,
and it's a lot more complicated than I thought

based on what optometrists do with glasses to correct for it,
astigmatisms are more than likely inconsistent focusing across various
parts of the eye. So whereas glasses correct for it, maybe you need
different prescriptions for close work than for "general vision"

some form of "computer only" glasses, seem to be the way to go.
Bifocals only work when you look down, and nobody does that with their
monitors [maybe phones/slabs but not desktops]