Running an old DOS program

dg1261 wrote in
44.100:

I had visions of everyone carrying around their own personal "computer"
as a VM on a flash drive of some fashion, with the hardware computer
being merely a VM shell that the BIOS would boot straight into. You
could carry your own "PC" in your pocket, plug it into a VM shell at any
library, kiosk, coffee shop, or friend's house, and you'd instantly have
your own computer with your own OS and your own apps and everything.


That is a very appealing idea. Telling people about how 'cloud computing'
sucks won't cut it, but offering them a vision like that might. It's like
that Doctor Who book I read years back, where a Tibetan lama says that a fish
would be happier if his bowl could be emptied into the ocean, and the Doctor
says, yes, but how much happier would he be if the ocean could be emptied
into the bowl? (And he should know, a TARDIS being what it is.

The whole mobile computing thing was pretty much sold on that notion. And
only the rich get to take real comfort onto the roads. A VM method could
allow that freedom to many, as opposed to the cloud which is basically murky.
That's what clouds do, they make it hard to see. People put out all their
power, and it gets taken and used behind what might well amount to a veil of
deceit. All that free processing being offered now, will have a PRICE to pay,
by which time people will want out from that cloud, maybe too late. And given
what network protocols are, there's nothing about the VM model that conspires
against distributed systems anyway.

Actually, there IS a way the VM might make its way. Currently, IT in various
firms has been based on many similar machines. I read on the BBC site that
some firms are letting people use their own machines. This is because people
are more productive if they have their own environment and can work fast in
comfort with it. Opponents will say that the incompatibilies may be many, a
nightmare for sysadmins, but a VM method might help that a lot. That way the
sysadmin never has to worry about the box, but only about what goes in and
out of it.

Guys, how do I edit the config.sys to set up sound since I can't
access my fake DOS machine with my real machine? Also, I noticed the
cursor on the emulator is being limited to a larger grid of some sort
so it doesn't go as smoothly as I remember.

To whoever suggested using an old computer, I already still have my P4
and I'll die a happy mofo if I don't have to use it ever again,
m'kay?

I prefer to enjoy the high speed of my new i7.

In message , Ken Springer
writes:
On 3/8/12 2:35 PM, Fritz Wuehler wrote:
I know of no reason you couldn't load DOS 7.1 into Virtual Box.

You can load it but it will not work 100%. Depending on what you need,
VirtualBox, QEMU etc. do not work very well with DOS. Many programs like
Borland TASM, and MS MASM crash the VM.

Maybe a simpler and easier route would be to go to the pawn shop,
Goodwill, flea markets, etc. and buy a desktop that will run DOS
without jumping through hoops.


Indeed - in fact depending on what country you're in and what laws it
has, you may even be paid to take it away!

But you did say you have your "old" P4 machine and would be a happy
bunny if you never had to use it again.

You may find that, if you turn it into a DOS machine (or DOS and W98 [SE
lite or anniversary edition], with the boot menu turned on so you can go
straight into DOS), that you'll never have to use what you remember
again, if what you remember is that machine struggling to run XP; you'd
probably find that it is the bee's knees running pure DOS. And if it
hasn't got a floppy, I think a P4 machine will be old enough that there
will at least be a floppy connector on the mobo (and you should be able
to get a gash floppy, even if new ones aren't being made much).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The main and the most glorious achievement of television is that it is killing
the art of conversation. If we think of the type of conversation television is
helping to kill, our gratitude must be undying. (George Mikes, "How to be
Inimitable" [1960].)

Industrial One wrote in news:b08c87b8-2779-45ea-
:

how do I edit the config.sys to set up sound since I can't
access my fake DOS machine with my real machine?

That's down the emulator details. I don't know them. But I do know that DOS
programs often used sound from the PC speaker, not at all the same as using
some sound card. Either way the emulator will have to make whatever access is
needed. If yours can't, you'll have to find one that can. Also, if running on
W98, beeps sent to the PC speaker usually come out as single short clicks. An
emulator may or may not be able to over-ride that. There are small 'beep'
programs around that do at least prove that it can work. Sound cards ought to
be easier, the emulator is a windows program, and should use one as any other
windows program would. After that, the program it's supporting should work
without knowing anything about it. If you can't use a config.sys setting
exactly as normal, the emulator should be telling you what to use instead.

On Mar 10, 11:44*pm, Lostgallifreyan wrote:
Industrial One wrote in news:b08c87b8-2779-45ea-
:

how do I edit the config.sys to set up sound since I can't
access my fake DOS machine with my real machine?

That's down the emulator details. I don't know them. But I do know that DOS
programs often used sound from the PC speaker, not at all the same as using
some sound card. Either way the emulator will have to make whatever access is
needed. If yours can't, you'll have to find one that can. Also, if running on
W98, beeps sent to the PC speaker usually come out as single short clicks.. An
emulator may or may not be able to over-ride that. There are small 'beep'
programs around that do at least prove that it can work. Sound cards ought to
be easier, the emulator is a windows program, and should use one as any other
windows program would. After that, the program it's supporting should work
without knowing anything about it. If you can't use a config.sys setting
exactly as normal, the emulator should be telling you what to use instead..

Which driver do I install? I've been told Soundblaster16 but I see
multiple versions all over the net. Do I have to find one according to
my mobo or something (I thought the damn VM was supposed to take care
of this)?

Also, whats a good mouse driver? I've tried a couple but they all
feature a cursor locked to a grid. Does one of them have smoother
navigation?

Btw, I'm on DOS 6.22 now. People recommended to ditch 7.10 because it
was unstable or something.

Industrial One wrote in news:cfd2396a-3bfb-4b43-
:

Which driver do I install? I've been told Soundblaster16 but I see
multiple versions all over the net. Do I have to find one according to
my mobo or something (I thought the damn VM was supposed to take care
of this)?


I don't know. If there are lots, you'll need to try one, and have a way to
restore all of the original config, and try another till something works.
Whatever you read, anywhere, you'll need to do this to be sure. The VM IS
supposed to take care of it. Should provide the IRQ and everything. The main
problem is that timing might be critical. Just as some games might depend on
a hardware clock speed, and run badly in an emulator, so might timing
functions for sound output. Only trying stuff will reveal the extent of
hazard.

Also, whats a good mouse driver? I've tried a couple but they all
feature a cursor locked to a grid. Does one of them have smoother
navigation?


DOS screens are text based, the pattern is usually 25, 43, or 50 lines, and
40 or 80 characters. Even if you have a mouse cursor that appears to move
smoothly, you can still only address the position of one character in a DOS
text screen.

Btw, I'm on DOS 6.22 now. People recommended to ditch 7.10 because it
was unstable or something.


DOS 6.22 is a good choice. DOS 7 isn't unstable, it just lacks some of the
DOS 6 tools because it's made as a base for W9X. You might have version
conflicts preventing some imported older DOS tools from running. You can use
Setver.exe to correct this, but it's one of those things that I never got to
work. I didn't try hard, it's always best to choose the system most likely to
support your need without that extra complication. If your program was meant
to run in true DOS, before Windows, then DOS v6.22 might not only be a good
choice, but the best one. (I still keep it around even though I don't use it
now. It's inbuilt help was particularly good, I used that after I'd quit
using it for anything else.

On Mar 11, 11:14*am, Lostgallifreyan wrote:
Industrial One wrote in news:cfd2396a-3bfb-4b43-
:

Which driver do I install? I've been told Soundblaster16 but I see
multiple versions all over the net. Do I have to find one according to
my mobo or something (I thought the damn VM was supposed to take care
of this)?

I don't know. If there are lots, you'll need to try one, and have a way to
restore all of the original config, and try another till something works.
Whatever you read, anywhere, you'll need to do this to be sure. The VM IS
supposed to take care of it. Should provide the IRQ and everything. The main
problem is that timing might be critical. Just as some games might depend on
a hardware clock speed, and run badly in an emulator, so might timing
functions for sound output. Only trying stuff will reveal the extent of
hazard.

Okay, is there a repository anywhere? They are scattered all over the
place. DOSBox runs the emulator fine and I'd be using it right now
were it not dragging on like ****ed-on Playstation. Is there a way to
figure out which Soundblaster driver DOSBox uses so I can use it in
DOS 6.22?

Also, whats a good mouse driver? I've tried a couple but they all
feature a cursor locked to a grid. Does one of them have smoother
navigation?

DOS screens are text based, the pattern is usually 25, 43, or 50 lines, and
40 or 80 characters. Even if you have a mouse cursor that appears to move
smoothly, you can still only address the position of one character in a DOS
text screen.

I understand, and I don't care about the smoothness inside the DOS OS,
I care about the smoothness inside the emulator program.

Btw, I'm on DOS 6.22 now. People recommended to ditch 7.10 because it
was unstable or something.

DOS 6.22 is a good choice. DOS 7 isn't unstable, it just lacks some of the
DOS 6 tools because it's made as a base for W9X. You might have version
conflicts preventing some imported older DOS tools from running. You can use

What version conflict? I installed 6.22 on a brand new VM.

Industrial One wrote in news:f83d4df0-f5c8-494f-
:

Okay, is there a repository anywhere? They are scattered all over the
place. DOSBox runs the emulator fine and I'd be using it right now
were it not dragging on like ****ed-on Playstation. Is there a way to
figure out which Soundblaster driver DOSBox uses so I can use it in
DOS 6.22?


I don't know. Try something. Anything. The time to agonise is when there's
nothing to try when you have to have something. I don't know enough to advise
anything specific about soundblasters, except to disable the onboard synth
and any features you don't need, as some of them use three IRQ's and you
might as well cut all potential difficulties.

DOSbox ought to have a lot of info about sound output, it's extremely
unlikely that this hasn't been asked of them many times, so see what they say
about it.

I understand, and I don't care about the smoothness inside the DOS OS,
I care about the smoothness inside the emulator program.


I don't know what that means. If you're emulating DOS, there will be a text
mode, with a grid like I described. There IS no smooth mouse positioning in
that context. By definition, if you see smooth position changes, you're not
in DOS, you're in a window made by the OS. The distinction might be hard to
spot when using a DOS session in a windowed mode, but it's there. For
example. open ANY command line window, use Alt+Space, then E then K to
activate selection, and you can drag the selection by holdign down the left
mouse button. The pointer will move smoothly, but the test selection box will
not. If you're seeing sluggish motion, delays, that's something else,
something impeding system (window) messages.

What version conflict? I installed 6.22 on a brand new VM.


Between versions of DOS. For example, there's a TREE command in DOS 6. Isn't
in DOS 7, for W9X foundation. But you can't use it even if you add it, it
will give a 'wrong DOS version' error. DOS v6.22 has a large set of native
commands, so if that one supports your program and runs in that emulator, use
it. Never mind not having obvious needs for specific tools, it's a full DOS
install, v7.1 wasn't intended to be one, and isn't.

On 3/11/2012 8:46 AM, Lostgallifreyan wrote:
Between versions of DOS. For example, there's a TREE command in DOS 6. Isn't
in DOS 7, for W9X foundation. But you can't use it even if you add it, it
will give a 'wrong DOS version' error. DOS v6.22 has a large set of native
commands, so if that one supports your program and runs in that emulator, use
it. Never mind not having obvious needs for specific tools, it's a full DOS
install, v7.1 wasn't intended to be one, and isn't.

One of the cool things I liked with Windows (v3.xx to Windows 7) is that
you can replace the desktop (shell) with something else. Like for
example under Windows 3.xx and Windows 9x, you can replace
shell=explorer.exe to command.com (I forget if it is in System.ini or
Win.ini).

And when you boot, you get a multitasking DOS. The full blown Windows is
still there if you ever need it. Say for example if you want to run
notepad, just type it through the command prompt. But what is also nice
about this multitasking DOS is that it also sports the better memory
management of Windows (VM).

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v3.0
Centrino Core2 Duo 2GHz - 1.5GB - Windows 7

BillW50 wrote in :

One of the cool things I liked with Windows (v3.xx to Windows 7) is that
you can replace the desktop (shell) with something else. Like for
example under Windows 3.xx and Windows 9x, you can replace
shell=explorer.exe to command.com (I forget if it is in System.ini or
Win.ini).

And when you boot, you get a multitasking DOS. The full blown Windows is
still there if you ever need it. Say for example if you want to run
notepad, just type it through the command prompt. But what is also nice
about this multitasking DOS is that it also sports the better memory
management of Windows (VM).


That could be neat, if we can set screen resolution high when calling windows
programs in it. I know that a Windows program will run when Explorer is shut
down, but never made the jump to realising that it could be launched from a
command window even if Explorer is shut down. (The Run command field works,
but that's still basically Explorer...) All still 32 bit protected mode
though, so no real mode DOS emulation, I guess, DOSbox would still be needed.
(But might possibly run better, if the Explorer shell isn't there to risk any
kind of conflict of interest with it).

System.ini is the one with that shell launch line.