VFAT

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:59:25 -0400, "PCR" wrote:
"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" wrote
| On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:56:55 -0400, "PCR" wrote:

| Easiest is to press Shift+F8 and single-step through the .bat (this
| will single-step what is Called as well as Autoexec.bat itself) to see
| where it dies. Then it's either the Emm386.exe shenanigans I
| detailed, or that particular part of that .bat gets the bullet :-)

IT IS the Emm386.exe shenanigans, cquirke, as he can boot well with
Autoexec.bat enabled-- just not with Config.sys.

Emm386.exe is one of the hands that's clapping here - but what is the
other? Something running at the BIOS level? Or something starting
later, such as via one of those .bat files? Shift+F8 may help answer.

STILL, it wouldn't hurt to have a look at his .bat's. If all of it is
meant only to activate things in DOS, perhaps some of it can be moved to
DOSStart.bat.

Actually, ALL of this stuff could be moved to DOS mode, though I'd
"Specify a new" and use private Config.sys and Autoexec.bat

| On Emm386.exe syntax:
|
| Emm386.exe RAM
| - emulates EMS
| - provides UMB services, if facilitated by DOS=UMB
|
| Emm386.exe NoEMS
| - provides UMB services only, if facilitated by DOS=UMB
|
| IOW, both will do UMB if facilitated no DOS=UMB (which is the default
| in Win9x unless suppressed via DOS=NoAuto)
|
| The "RAM" parameter will be less effective as there will be the 64k
| lump taken up by the EMS page frame - but both "do" UMB.

That is also my understanding of it, book-learning only...
You do make it sound nearly understandable, though.

It's one of those "why is the Misissippi so windy?" topics that's best
understood via the history. HiMem.sys and Emm386.exe are like gill
clefts on a bull, but facinating archeology nonetheless.

Then again, I fascinate easily.



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Can't stop what's coming
Can't stop what's on it's way (Tori Amos)
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"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" wrote
in message ...
| On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:59:25 -0400, "PCR" wrote:
| "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)"
wrote
| | On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:56:55 -0400, "PCR"
wrote:
|
| | Easiest is to press Shift+F8 and single-step through the .bat (this
| | will single-step what is Called as well as Autoexec.bat itself) to
see
| | where it dies. Then it's either the Emm386.exe shenanigans I
| | detailed, or that particular part of that .bat gets the bullet :-)
|
| IT IS the Emm386.exe shenanigans, cquirke, as he can boot well with
| Autoexec.bat enabled-- just not with Config.sys.
|
| Emm386.exe is one of the hands that's clapping here - but what is the
| other? Something running at the BIOS level? Or something starting
| later, such as via one of those .bat files? Shift+F8 may help answer.

I lean toward one of his overly abundant .bat's. One is even named
"Drivers.bat"!

|
| STILL, it wouldn't hurt to have a look at his .bat's. If all of it is
| meant only to activate things in DOS, perhaps some of it can be moved
to
| DOSStart.bat.
|
| Actually, ALL of this stuff could be moved to DOS mode, though I'd
| "Specify a new" and use private Config.sys and Autoexec.bat

That could be better. I was thinking to move most of it to DOSStart.bat.
That will execute at a normal "Restart in MS-DOS Mode", which is a "use
current configuration". Or, if booting directly to DOS, just enter
"DOSStart" at the C:\Prompt.

However, I'm not sure whether some of it would be used in Windows DOS
(in a box) session. Then, that would have to be left where it is in
Autoexec.bat, maybe. I wish he would post the bundle...

Config.sys
Autoexec.bat
sPower.bat
FrstBoot.bat
drivers.bat
initial.bat

|
| | On Emm386.exe syntax:
| |
| | Emm386.exe RAM
| | - emulates EMS
| | - provides UMB services, if facilitated by DOS=UMB
| |
| | Emm386.exe NoEMS
| | - provides UMB services only, if facilitated by DOS=UMB
| |
| | IOW, both will do UMB if facilitated no DOS=UMB (which is the
default
| | in Win9x unless suppressed via DOS=NoAuto)
| |
| | The "RAM" parameter will be less effective as there will be the 64k
| | lump taken up by the EMS page frame - but both "do" UMB.
|
| That is also my understanding of it, book-learning only...
| You do make it sound nearly understandable, though.
|
| It's one of those "why is the Misissippi so windy?" topics that's best
| understood via the history. HiMem.sys and Emm386.exe are like gill
| clefts on a bull, but facinating archeology nonetheless.
|
| Then again, I fascinate easily.

As long as Win98 survives, so shall those two & DOS.

|
|
|
| ------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -
| Can't stop what's coming
| Can't stop what's on it's way (Tori Amos)
| ------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:48:06 -0400, "PCR" wrote:
"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" wrote
| On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:59:25 -0400, "PCR" wrote:

| IT IS the Emm386.exe shenanigans, cquirke, as he can boot well with
| Autoexec.bat enabled-- just not with Config.sys.
|
| Emm386.exe is one of the hands that's clapping here - but what is the
| other? Something running at the BIOS level? Or something starting
| later, such as via one of those .bat files? Shift+F8 may help answer.

I lean toward one of his overly abundant .bat's. One is even named
"Drivers.bat"!

Eish :-)

| If all of it is meant only to activate things in DOS, perhaps
| some of it can be moved to DOSStart.bat.

| Actually, ALL of this stuff could be moved to DOS mode, though I'd
| "Specify a new" and use private Config.sys and Autoexec.bat

That could be better. I was thinking to move most of it to DOSStart.bat.
That will execute at a normal "Restart in MS-DOS Mode", which is a "use
current configuration". Or, if booting directly to DOS, just enter
"DOSStart" at the C: Prompt.

You can do both - i.e. build into a DOSStart.bat for elective use
after an F8-intercepted boot, and have "Exit to DOS.pif" invoke them
via the private Autoexec.bat (which could Call DOSStart.bat for
single-file maintenance, i.e. edit only DOSStart.bat).

The advantage of "Specify a new..." is that you can get Emm386.exe out
of the GUI startup axis as well.

However, I'm not sure whether some of it would be used in Windows DOS
(in a box) session.

Few things would be needed there, given that Command.com windows in,
er, Windows (GUI) are running on top of Windows, not DOS (i.e. the
Win9x kernel, not raw IO.SYS). So anything needed to "drive" things
in a pure DOS mode environment are likely to be redundant.

OTOH, whatever's needed can be associated with Command.com in the GUI
by putting it in a .bat, and setting that .bat as the "batch file" in
the .pif that holds the settings for Command.com in GUI mode.



---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Proverbs Unscrolled #37
"Build it and they will come and break it"
---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" wrote
in message ...
| On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:48:06 -0400, "PCR" wrote:
| "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)"
wrote
| | On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:59:25 -0400, "PCR"
wrote:
|
| | IT IS the Emm386.exe shenanigans, cquirke, as he can boot well
with
| | Autoexec.bat enabled-- just not with Config.sys.
| |
| | Emm386.exe is one of the hands that's clapping here - but what is
the
| | other? Something running at the BIOS level? Or something starting
| | later, such as via one of those .bat files? Shift+F8 may help
answer.
|
| I lean toward one of his overly abundant .bat's. One is even named
| "Drivers.bat"!
|
| Eish :-)
|
| | If all of it is meant only to activate things in DOS, perhaps
| | some of it can be moved to DOSStart.bat.
|
| | Actually, ALL of this stuff could be moved to DOS mode, though I'd
| | "Specify a new" and use private Config.sys and Autoexec.bat
|
| That could be better. I was thinking to move most of it to
DOSStart.bat.
| That will execute at a normal "Restart in MS-DOS Mode", which is a
"use
| current configuration". Or, if booting directly to DOS, just enter
| "DOSStart" at the C: Prompt.
|
| You can do both - i.e. build into a DOSStart.bat for elective use
| after an F8-intercepted boot, and have "Exit to DOS.pif" invoke them
| via the private Autoexec.bat (which could Call DOSStart.bat for
| single-file maintenance, i.e. edit only DOSStart.bat).

I see. Yea, just have it in DOSStart.bat, & let the "Specify a new..."
"Exit to DOS.pif" call it. I know you have reasons to believe that is
preferable to letting a "use current configuration" do it's built-in
call to DOSStart.bat. The "Specify a new..." provides better control
over the DOS environment.

|
| The advantage of "Specify a new..." is that you can get Emm386.exe out
| of the GUI startup axis as well.

I see.

|
| However, I'm not sure whether some of it would be used in Windows DOS
| (in a box) session.
|
| Few things would be needed there, given that Command.com windows in,
| er, Windows (GUI) are running on top of Windows, not DOS (i.e. the
| Win9x kernel, not raw IO.SYS). So anything needed to "drive" things
| in a pure DOS mode environment are likely to be redundant.

Hmm. I do know...

DEVICE=C:\Windows\EMM386.exe NOEMS V

....that NOEMS switch in Config.sys will disallow use of Expanded Memory
in a DOS Window. This is what causes me to suspect other items in
Config.sys may matter. But I see you say most things can be put
into/called from it's .pif.

|
| OTOH, whatever's needed can be associated with Command.com in the GUI
| by putting it in a .bat, and setting that .bat as the "batch file" in
| the .pif that holds the settings for Command.com in GUI mode.

I guess that .pif would be...
"START button, Programs, MS-DOS Prompt, Properties button".

|
|
|
| ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
| Proverbs Unscrolled #37
| "Build it and they will come and break it"
| ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 17:51:15 -0400, "PCR" wrote:

| OTOH, whatever's needed can be associated with Command.com in the GUI
| by putting it in a .bat, and setting that .bat as the "batch file" in
| the .pif that holds the settings for Command.com in GUI mode.

I guess that .pif would be...
"START button, Programs, MS-DOS Prompt, Properties button".

It can be tricky, so what I do is run the prompt I want to fiddle
with, make sure it's windowed (Alt+Enter) and then click the
Properties button in the window's toolbar.



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Forget http://cquirke.blogspot.com and check out a
better one at http://topicdrift.blogspot.com instead!
------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" wrote
in message ...
| On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 17:51:15 -0400, "PCR" wrote:
|
| | OTOH, whatever's needed can be associated with Command.com in the
GUI
| | by putting it in a .bat, and setting that .bat as the "batch file"
in
| | the .pif that holds the settings for Command.com in GUI mode.
|
| I guess that .pif would be...
| "START button, Programs, MS-DOS Prompt, Properties button".
|
| It can be tricky, so what I do is run the prompt I want to fiddle
| with, make sure it's windowed (Alt+Enter) and then click the
| Properties button in the window's toolbar.
|

I think that's what I said, as mine opens with the buttons showing, & I
don't want to fool with it. Otherwise, it can also be R-Clkd right on
the "START, etc." menu, & Properties selected from there. OK, then.
Let's wait seven more days for Danny to arrive with his .bat's.