Registry Defragmenters

Hello:

There have been a few threads recently on the use of registry cleaners.
While some people like them and have not had any bad experiences with them,
the consensus seems to be that such tools should be avoided by inexperienced
users.

I have also seen registry defragmenter utilities available, both as part of
commercial software, as well as shareware and freeware. Does the advice to
avoid registry cleaners also apply to registry defragmenters - that is to
avoid them?

Is it best simply to not touch the registry (other than using a tool like
System Restore)?

Thanks,
O.J.

Yes.

....Alan
--
Alan Edwards, MS MVP Windows - Internet Explorer
http://dts-l.com/index.htm



On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 02:26:45 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsme.general, "O.J. Newman"
wrote:


Does the advice to
avoid registry cleaners also apply to registry defragmenters - that is to
avoid them?

Does that also go for scanreg /opt /fix ?
Not really a defragmenter I'd guess, but it does get rid of wasted space.

Norman

"Alan Edwards" wrote in message
...
Yes.

...Alan
--
Alan Edwards, MS MVP Windows - Internet Explorer
http://dts-l.com/index.htm



On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 02:26:45 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsme.general, "O.J. Newman"
wrote:


Does the advice to
avoid registry cleaners also apply to registry defragmenters - that is to
avoid them?

I could not agree more that registry cleaners are not for the inexperienced.
I've had my share of problems, even with MSRegClean, which is no longer
supported. It would remove a key that would break your install.
Unfortunately it always ran in automatic mode, but had enough experience
(bad) that I knew what key to replace.
I now use only tools that allow me total control and automatically or
manually make backups of what is removed and allow restoring of single
entries, with one exception and that tool is
http://support.microsoft.com/downloa...s/ShareDLL.exe

I also use a really old one known as JV16 PowerTools, version 1.3 and
version 1.41. These were free and you may find an archive somewhere.
Also OLE Clean 1.5.
The biggest problem I've seen with such tools is they often want to remove
HKCR keys that MS installed, but may not be currently in use, such as
briefcase, UPNP, some Office keys etc. And when you turn such on via
add/remove, windows setup, or by adding or first use of Office feature, it
ends up broken.
So that is definitely a key you want to look at closely before making a
decision. Did MS put it there, or is it a leftover from something removed.

These tools can be very useful in locating a bad key connection, such as MS
key for mciole.dll. Registry will show it in windows and MS actually
installed it to windows/system.
Also can be very useful for fixing bad install. Too often I've had left over
keys that will not allow a good install from an updated program. One
particularly annoying has been the package on CD for an ATI card. Even ATI's
version of cleaner will not fix.
Sometimes using MS Windows Installer Cleanup has overcome the hurdle of
getting a good install, if MSI was used.

You could spend hours searching for a fix to your particular problem or with
tech support hoping someone there knows. And then still be faced with the
possibility of a format and reinstall. (that is just plain ugly if system
restore or a registry restore was of no help. Maybe you missed window of
opportunity or other situation).

So, when you are backed into the corner of only choice being format and
install, or using risky registry tools, the choice is clear to me. What have
you got to lose? Use with over caution.
Norman

"O.J. Newman" wrote in message
...
Hello:

There have been a few threads recently on the use of registry cleaners.
While some people like them and have not had any bad experiences with
them,
the consensus seems to be that such tools should be avoided by
inexperienced
users.

I have also seen registry defragmenter utilities available, both as part
of
commercial software, as well as shareware and freeware. Does the advice to
avoid registry cleaners also apply to registry defragmenters - that is to
avoid them?

Is it best simply to not touch the registry (other than using a tool like
System Restore)?

Thanks,
O.J.

We call it compaction. The problem is that if you do a search for
"Registry Defragmenters" what you will mostly get will be a bunch of
returns for registry cleaners, for most parts they are are the only ones
who use the term. They may use it to describe compaction but along with
the ability to compact comes the rest of their cleaning utility which
can cause much more harm than any problems that they claim to fix!

John

Norman wrote:

Does that also go for scanreg /opt /fix ?
Not really a defragmenter I'd guess, but it does get rid of wasted space.

Norman

"Alan Edwards" wrote in message
...

Yes.

...Alan
--
Alan Edwards, MS MVP Windows - Internet Explorer
http://dts-l.com/index.htm



On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 02:26:45 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsme.general, "O.J. Newman"
wrote:



Does the advice to
avoid registry cleaners also apply to registry defragmenters - that is to
avoid them?

Norman,
Isn't jv16 ver 1.41 just a crippled version of 1.3??? It's been so
long, I don't remember, but, that comes to mind. I am still using 1.3,
mainly to find leftover detritus from program uninstalls (doesn't happen
very often). I find it easier than doing manual registry searches for a
variety of files, some of which, I don't know to look for! It isn't for
everyone, I know, and the main thing is the backup!...I'll say it
again....BACKUP!!!!!
Heirloom, old and once again, BACKUP!!


"Norman" wrote in message
...
I could not agree more that registry cleaners are not for the
inexperienced.
I've had my share of problems, even with MSRegClean, which is no longer
supported. It would remove a key that would break your install.
Unfortunately it always ran in automatic mode, but had enough experience
(bad) that I knew what key to replace.
I now use only tools that allow me total control and automatically or
manually make backups of what is removed and allow restoring of single
entries, with one exception and that tool is
http://support.microsoft.com/downloa...s/ShareDLL.exe

I also use a really old one known as JV16 PowerTools, version 1.3 and
version 1.41. These were free and you may find an archive somewhere.
Also OLE Clean 1.5.
The biggest problem I've seen with such tools is they often want to remove
HKCR keys that MS installed, but may not be currently in use, such as
briefcase, UPNP, some Office keys etc. And when you turn such on via
add/remove, windows setup, or by adding or first use of Office feature, it
ends up broken.
So that is definitely a key you want to look at closely before making a
decision. Did MS put it there, or is it a leftover from something removed.
snip

So, when you are backed into the corner of only choice being format and
install, or using risky registry tools, the choice is clear to me. What
have
you got to lose? Use with over caution.
Norman

Crippled in what way?
I maintain an archive sometimes with several versions until I'm certain of
newer. Sometimes it is a long time before I get around to cleanup.
Also there seems to a disappearance of some of these which seems to happen
during a Windows install or reinstall so I now try to keep them on an
external drive.
I remember at one point I had a newer version, than 1.3, that would expire
after about 30 days.
But via whatever processes, I now have 1.3 and 1.41. Oops, that magic got me
again. Went to partition holding Utilities/registry/pwr tools and only have
zipped copies. Others disappeared.
But in one of those desperation fixes avoiding format, I decided to give
1.41 a go at it after running 1.3. My thinking, which may be wrong, was that
1.41 would die after 30 days, but did not care at that point. It will
happily install to 1.3 folder but uncertain as to how well it assumes
previous backups. I strongly suggest installing to separate folder until
that is determined with certainty and as to whether it expires on you.
The interface is somewhat changed with maybe a couple of extra features
added before they went retail. Maybe they had a 1.43 that was last before
retail and expired. Only change may have been the timer. But I learned that
you did not want to allow an online update which would make any recent
version expire. I think the update no longer works.
What I have seen is that 1.41 finds many more entries of which many are
really duplicates because of the arrangement of the registry, particularly
as to HKCR and HKLM. But regardless, same cautions apply as to how you use
it.
Norman
"Heirloom" wrote in message
...
Norman,
Isn't jv16 ver 1.41 just a crippled version of 1.3??? It's been so
long, I don't remember, but, that comes to mind. I am still using 1.3,
mainly to find leftover detritus from program uninstalls (doesn't happen
very often). I find it easier than doing manual registry searches for a
variety of files, some of which, I don't know to look for! It isn't for
everyone, I know, and the main thing is the backup!...I'll say it
again....BACKUP!!!!!
Heirloom, old and once again, BACKUP!!


"Norman" wrote in message
...
I could not agree more that registry cleaners are not for the
inexperienced.
I've had my share of problems, even with MSRegClean, which is no longer
supported. It would remove a key that would break your install.
Unfortunately it always ran in automatic mode, but had enough experience
(bad) that I knew what key to replace.
I now use only tools that allow me total control and automatically or
manually make backups of what is removed and allow restoring of single
entries, with one exception and that tool is
http://support.microsoft.com/downloa...s/ShareDLL.exe

I also use a really old one known as JV16 PowerTools, version 1.3 and
version 1.41. These were free and you may find an archive somewhere.
Also OLE Clean 1.5.
The biggest problem I've seen with such tools is they often want to
remove
HKCR keys that MS installed, but may not be currently in use, such as
briefcase, UPNP, some Office keys etc. And when you turn such on via
add/remove, windows setup, or by adding or first use of Office feature,
it
ends up broken.
So that is definitely a key you want to look at closely before making a
decision. Did MS put it there, or is it a leftover from something
removed.
snip

So, when you are backed into the corner of only choice being format and
install, or using risky registry tools, the choice is clear to me. What
have
you got to lose? Use with over caution.
Norman

Norman,
Mine was not a statement, but, rather, a question. I was under the
impression that the version 1.3 was the last FREE version with full
capabilities. That could very well be incorrect and it is not important
enough, to me, to do a lot of research to determine its' validity. Maybe it
was that 1.41 was a trial issue that, like you said, would expire after a
period of time or number of uses.....I really don't remember. I just know
that there was some reason that I was still using 1.3.
Heirloom, old and let me know if I am wrong

"E_Net_Rider" wrote in message
...
Crippled in what way?
I maintain an archive sometimes with several versions until I'm certain of
newer. Sometimes it is a long time before I get around to cleanup.
Also there seems to a disappearance of some of these which seems to happen
during a Windows install or reinstall so I now try to keep them on an
external drive.
I remember at one point I had a newer version, than 1.3, that would expire
after about 30 days.
But via whatever processes, I now have 1.3 and 1.41. Oops, that magic got
me
again. Went to partition holding Utilities/registry/pwr tools and only
have
zipped copies. Others disappeared.
But in one of those desperation fixes avoiding format, I decided to give
1.41 a go at it after running 1.3. My thinking, which may be wrong, was
that
1.41 would die after 30 days, but did not care at that point. It will
happily install to 1.3 folder but uncertain as to how well it assumes
previous backups. I strongly suggest installing to separate folder until
that is determined with certainty and as to whether it expires on you.
The interface is somewhat changed with maybe a couple of extra features
added before they went retail. Maybe they had a 1.43 that was last before
retail and expired. Only change may have been the timer. But I learned
that
you did not want to allow an online update which would make any recent
version expire. I think the update no longer works.
What I have seen is that 1.41 finds many more entries of which many are
really duplicates because of the arrangement of the registry, particularly
as to HKCR and HKLM. But regardless, same cautions apply as to how you use
it.
Norman
"Heirloom" wrote in message
...
Norman,
Isn't jv16 ver 1.41 just a crippled version of 1.3??? It's been so
long, I don't remember, but, that comes to mind. I am still using 1.3,
mainly to find leftover detritus from program uninstalls (doesn't happen
very often). I find it easier than doing manual registry searches for a
variety of files, some of which, I don't know to look for! It isn't for
everyone, I know, and the main thing is the backup!...I'll say it
again....BACKUP!!!!!
Heirloom, old and once again, BACKUP!!


"Norman" wrote in message
...
I could not agree more that registry cleaners are not for the
inexperienced.
I've had my share of problems, even with MSRegClean, which is no longer
supported. It would remove a key that would break your install.
Unfortunately it always ran in automatic mode, but had enough
experience
(bad) that I knew what key to replace.
I now use only tools that allow me total control and automatically or
manually make backups of what is removed and allow restoring of single
entries, with one exception and that tool is
http://support.microsoft.com/downloa...s/ShareDLL.exe

I also use a really old one known as JV16 PowerTools, version 1.3 and
version 1.41. These were free and you may find an archive somewhere.
Also OLE Clean 1.5.
The biggest problem I've seen with such tools is they often want to
remove
HKCR keys that MS installed, but may not be currently in use, such as
briefcase, UPNP, some Office keys etc. And when you turn such on via
add/remove, windows setup, or by adding or first use of Office feature,
it
ends up broken.
So that is definitely a key you want to look at closely before making a
decision. Did MS put it there, or is it a leftover from something
removed.
snip

So, when you are backed into the corner of only choice being format and
install, or using risky registry tools, the choice is clear to me. What
have
you got to lose? Use with over caution.
Norman

Hello:

The Pricelessware freeware web site lists v.1.3.0.195 of jv16 PowerTools as
the last uncrippled version, FWIW. It notes that "Version 1.3.0.196 expired
on 2004-01-01."

See:
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/200...ryAndFileTools .

Please let me know if this is incorrect.

Thanks,
O.J.


"Heirloom" wrote in message
...
Norman,
Mine was not a statement, but, rather, a question. I was under the
impression that the version 1.3 was the last FREE version with full
capabilities. That could very well be incorrect and it is not important
enough, to me, to do a lot of research to determine its' validity. Maybe
it was that 1.41 was a trial issue that, like you said, would expire after
a period of time or number of uses.....I really don't remember. I just
know that there was some reason that I was still using 1.3.
Heirloom, old and let me know if I am wrong

That's what I believe.
Heirloom, old and not hard to convince

"O.J. Newman" wrote in message
...
Hello:

The Pricelessware freeware web site lists v.1.3.0.195 of jv16 PowerTools
as the last uncrippled version, FWIW. It notes that "Version 1.3.0.196
expired on 2004-01-01."

See:
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/200...ryAndFileTools .

Please let me know if this is incorrect.

Thanks,
O.J.


"Heirloom" wrote in message
...
Norman,
Mine was not a statement, but, rather, a question. I was under the
impression that the version 1.3 was the last FREE version with full
capabilities. That could very well be incorrect and it is not important
enough, to me, to do a lot of research to determine its' validity. Maybe
it was that 1.41 was a trial issue that, like you said, would expire
after a period of time or number of uses.....I really don't remember. I
just know that there was some reason that I was still using 1.3.
Heirloom, old and let me know if I am wrong