Firefox gone crazy

On 31 Oct 2011, Bob I wrote:

It is referred to as the "subscription model". Companies
periodically float a trial balloon. A big one was Microsoft
Office a few years back.

Thanks, I didn't know about this sort of thing happening
outside of the virus protection world.

This combined with proprietary file formats could be a serious
headache. If someone wanted to change the program they use for
a particular task while their old software used a unique
format, that user would have to either convert their files to
the format of their new program or have to pay for
subscriptions to two software packages. A great way to
encourage brand loyalty.
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On 10/31/2011 3:31 PM, Mayayana wrote:
| Perhaps you are completely oblivious to the differences between Patents
| and Copyright?
|

I'm talking about claims such as saying that the product
can only be used by amateurs. (A lot of software, like
MS Office, has a pro. version and the non-pro. version
carries that stipulation.) Are you saying that you think it
would be fair if you bought a dictionary or textbook and
had to sign a license saying you promised never to use
that book in any business capacity? You think that's
a reasonable limitation simply because the book is copyrighted
rather than patented? If so then I would like to sell
you some of my software. I don't have any pro.version, but
I'd be happy to change the labelling if you'd like to pay
me an extra $500 for that service. In fact, for an extra
$800 I'll license it to you for pro AND amateur use. And for
an extra $1200 I'll throw in the ability to use it on Sundays.
(For a limited time only, so act now.)



So, you have a problem with labeling? The term "Professional" merely
indicates that the software in question offers a greater range of
features than the version labeled "Home" and since there are more
features the company charges more. Pretty simple, but for someone off on
a tangent, that bit of reality is pretty ominous. There isn't any reason
you can't pay for the "professional" version and use it at home, the
company licensing it doesn't care. Of course when you are just making up
outrageous claims and other patent BS, then reality is not something you
need to bother with. You certainly fit into the pathetic excuse for a
computer user category.

|
| So, you have a problem with labeling? The term "Professional" merely
| indicates that the software in question offers a greater range of
| features than the version labeled "Home" and since there are more
| features the company charges more. Pretty simple

No, that's not the whole truth. If you buy the Home version it's
not licensed for use in business. Why is it that you stressed
how the pro version can be used at home but you didn't claim the
home version can be used at work? That's the example I gave you
with buying a dictionary: How absurd and unfair it would be to
license the dictionary only for non-business use.

If you doubt what I'm saying, download the EULA for
yourself. This is from the Office 2010 license:

---------------------------------------------------------
12. HOME AND STUDENT SOFTWARE. For software marked “Home and Student”
edition, you may install one copy of the software on up to three licensed
devices in your household for use by people for whom that is their
primary residence. The software may not be used for commercial, non-
profit, or revenue-generating activities.
---------------------------------------------------------

According to that license it's illegal to let a friend type
a letter on your PC using MS Office Home 2010! (Unless,
of course, your friend officially moves into your house.)
And it's "illegal" to type anything for use at work when you're
at home using the Home version. In fact, it's "illegal" for you
to write fundraising emails for your favorite charity. What can
you do with Home and Student version? School work and
household shopping lists, apparently. (I grant you, though,
that MS does, apparently, allow use of all 26 letters in the
alphabet with the Home version...so maybe I'm nitpicking
just a bit.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:06:47 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

|
| So, you have a problem with labeling? The term "Professional" merely
| indicates that the software in question offers a greater range of
| features than the version labeled "Home" and since there are more
| features the company charges more. Pretty simple

No, that's not the whole truth. If you buy the Home version it's
not licensed for use in business. Why is it that you stressed
how the pro version can be used at home but you didn't claim the
home version can be used at work? That's the example I gave you
with buying a dictionary: How absurd and unfair it would be to
license the dictionary only for non-business use.

If you doubt what I'm saying, download the EULA for
yourself. This is from the Office 2010 license:

---------------------------------------------------------
12. HOME AND STUDENT SOFTWARE. For software marked “Home and Student”
edition, you may install one copy of the software on up to three licensed
devices in your household for use by people for whom that is their
primary residence. The software may not be used for commercial, non-
profit, or revenue-generating activities.
---------------------------------------------------------

According to that license it's illegal to let a friend type
a letter on your PC using MS Office Home 2010! (Unless,
of course, your friend officially moves into your house.)
And it's "illegal" to type anything for use at work when you're
at home using the Home version. I


That's not at all correct. That restriction has nothing to do with the
Home edition; it exists for the “Home and Student” version; a version
which is sold at a particularly low price because of that restriction.
Home Editions and Professional editions in general have no
restrictions at all. The words "Home" and "Professional" mean nothing
about Home users or Professional users, but simply mean that the
Professional edition comes with features that the Home edition doesn't
have.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

| That's not at all correct. That restriction has nothing to do with the
| Home edition; it exists for the “Home and Student” version;

Home and Student is the Home version I was referring to.

| The words "Home" and "Professional" mean nothing
| about Home users or Professional users, but simply mean that the
| Professional edition comes with features that the Home edition
| doesn't have.
|

There's “Home and Student”, "Home and Business", and Professional.
Yes, they're sold at different prices, but the included software is not
the only difference. On the one hand you're agreeing that the H & S
version is restricted. On the other hand you're saying that the terms
Home and Pro only refer to features.

The Home and Student license is what I posted. It bans use
for business or non-profit, and use by non-residents of one's home.
(As I said to Bob I, you don't have to take my word for it. You can
download the PDF for yourself.) For $120 I would have a word
processor that I'm legally banned from using to write a business
letter!

The issue was unreasonable, illegal EULA claims, and what
kinds of claims are reasonable in the licensing of copyrighted
intellectual property. To carry on the earlier analogy, one
could buy the "Home and Student" dictionary or the Pro dictionary
from a bookstore. (In fact there is such a thing as "College Edition"
of some dictionaries.) One would expect the "pro" version to be
a better dictionary, with more words, more charts, etc. But in
no case would anyone expect the bookstore clerk to produce a
license contract dictating under what conditions one could use
*either* dictionary.

"Mayayana" wrote:

| That's not at all correct. That restriction has nothing to do with the
| Home edition; it exists for the “Home and Student” version;

Home and Student is the Home version I was referring to.

| The words "Home" and "Professional" mean nothing
| about Home users or Professional users, but simply mean that the
| Professional edition comes with features that the Home edition
| doesn't have.
|

There's “Home and Student”, "Home and Business", and Professional.
Yes, they're sold at different prices, but the included software is not
the only difference. On the one hand you're agreeing that the H & S
version is restricted. On the other hand you're saying that the terms
Home and Pro only refer to features.

Exactly right. "Home and Student" is cheap, and the license is
restricted. I'm not sure about features, but they're probably
restricted also.

"Home Premium" can be used anywhere. It has features like Aero and
Media Center to appeal to home users.

"Professional" can connect to a domain, which is rarely useful in a
home environment. It has other features which are primarily useful in
a business environment, but can be used anywhere.

"Ultimate" has everything.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions

--
Tim Slattery

http://members.cox.net/slatteryt

| Exactly right. "Home and Student" is cheap, and the license is
| restricted. I'm not sure about features, but they're probably
| restricted also.
|
| "Home Premium" can be used anywhere. It has features like Aero and
| Media Center to appeal to home users.
|
......

| See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions
|

Woops. I think you're talking about Windows 7. We were
talking about MS Office. It was a distinction between a
difference in features as opposed to MS license claims of
restricted rights. I'm not certain, but I don't think MS has
ever tried to claim that Windows Home version can't be
used for business purposes. (Though they do make some
wild claims. It's "illegal" -- as of Vista [section 2b of the Vista
license] -- for two people to use a Windows PC at the same
time. So if you've been teaching your kids how to use the PC,
it's best that you don't mention that in the presence of law
enforcement officials.

On 11/1/2011 10:36 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| Exactly right. "Home and Student" is cheap, and the license is
| restricted. I'm not sure about features, but they're probably
| restricted also.
|
| "Home Premium" can be used anywhere. It has features like Aero and
| Media Center to appeal to home users.
|
.....

| See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions
|

Woops. I think you're talking about Windows 7. We were
talking about MS Office. It was a distinction between a
difference in features as opposed to MS license claims of
restricted rights. I'm not certain, but I don't think MS has
ever tried to claim that Windows Home version can't be
used for business purposes. (Though they do make some
wild claims. It's "illegal" -- as of Vista [section 2b of the Vista
license] -- for two people to use a Windows PC at the same
time. So if you've been teaching your kids how to use the PC,
it's best that you don't mention that in the presence of law
enforcement officials.



Nope YOU'RE the one making the WILDLY EXAGGERATED claims. Try coming
down to reality occasionally.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 20:04:45 -0500, Paul in Houston TX
wrote:

All the old versions are available online.

Why upgrade? You can spoof what ever the websites want.
SeaMonkey is going nuts, too, with an upgrade every week.
IMO, They are self destructing.
I am quite happy with the old SeaMonkey 1119.
Security is not a concern of mine. My comps are secure.

I've been wanting to try Seamonkey for ages. I finally downloaded and
installed it. (Seamonkey 2.2).
It does not work in Win98se (with Kernal-Ex). It just kept locking up
and/or freezing. I did a complete removal, cleared all entries of it
in the registry, rebooted and installed it a second time. Same ****.
Apparently this version is not made for Win98. What a disappointment.