A hack, anyone, to turn on dma ?

Ah, it may be time to re-start this discussion under its own heading. Not
only is this deep [message-wise], its also likely not being reflected as it
should be.. no sense wasting our time ... and others may actually partake in
a new thread,, maybe not..

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________

MEB wrote:
| In at ,
| PCR contemplated and posted:
|| Franc Zabkar wrote:
||| On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 01:44:50 -0400, "PCR" put
||| finger to keyboard and composed:
|||
|||Franc Zabkar wrote:
|||
||||... PIO mode 3 is spec'ed for 11.1 MB/s and MW DMA 2 for 16.6 MB/s.
|||
|||http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atapi#A...ons.2C_transfe
r_
|||rates.2C_and_features
|||
|||Alright. That article does state there is some variance in what
|||speed may actually be attained for any of the modes, due to clock
|||cycle considerations & bus congestion. But those were probably much
|||the same for your PIO 3 vrs. MW DMA 2 test. As far as whether the
|||CPU was busy (which the MS article implies gives DMA the edge
|||because the IDE device will do the transfer)... you do say you had
|||no apps running. (Naturally, the OS itself is always running, but
|||CPU usage from that alone can often show up as zero in System
|||Monitor.)
|||
|||Nevertheless -- because these various DMA modes have different speed
|||ratings (although that could be because devices got quicker
|||themselves by the time the UDMA modes came out)-- I'm beginning to
|||wonder whether a busy CPU is all that should make DMA quicker. I'm
|||tempted again to turn mine off & see what happens-- but I see PIO 4
|||& MW DMA 2 have the same
|||16.6 MB/s rating. So, that won't help!
|||
||| I just realised that my 2x writer reads at 6x which is only 0.9
||| MB/s. That probably explains why neither a 16.6 MB/s nor a 11.1
||| MB/s ATAPI mode has any effect on transfer rates. smacks forehead
||| I also notice that my CPU usage is not perceptibly affected during
||| read testing in PIO mode at this low transfer rate (DMA box not
||| ticked).
|||
||| We both forgot that the 11.1 MB/s spec applies to "bursts" of data,
||| not sustained data transfers, ie it reflects the speed at which data
||| can move down the IDE cable, not how fast it can be read from the
||| disc. The OP has both a high speed drive *and* a high speed
||| interface, whereas our drives are slow but with medium speed
||| interfaces.
||
|| Alright. Yea, that has the ring of truth to it. I was just about to
|| formulate a thought like that. I think we've got it now. BUT I DID
|| somewhere question just what it was those rates were measuring-- when
|| they began/stopped the computation, & whether they were speaking of
|| CD-ROM or HDD. Also, I said somewhere things could be different with
|| a quick DVD. I see now it is a burst across a wire that is measured--
|| not the actual reading/writing of data. But you are right neither of
|| us knew precisely what we were talking about at the time, sure. And
|| MEB has arrived too late to say he did, either!
|
| 06/27/08 - MEB

No, no-- I only meant you never specifically stated you knew precisly
what those speed ratings meant! [That was supposed to be a joke: I know
you never said anything at all about it. :-).] Seriously, I know you
have a lot to contribute in all the rest of this! Furthermore, this
thread is no longer exclusively about Shadow's original problem. He
remains pleased (as well he should) with his own personal solution to
it. His DMA activated with a spectacular performance boost when he
jumpered the DVD to be slave-- & it's alone on its cable!

| "98 supports DMA but may disable it if your 98 system fails certain
| tests. Specifically when the drivers:
| 1. query the motherboard chip set,
| 2. query the drive itself, and,
| 3. test a short pattern of disk reads and writes to see if they are
| reliable at DMA speeds.
| If any of the three or combination fail, DMA will be disabled upon
| reboot. After errors, driver or software, the system may downgrade
| [permanently]. Particularly true for newer OSs [XP, VISTA].""

You provide more detail, but I was first to mention that possibility on
6/25/08...


| ---------
| ** The above hints and indicates the activities used during the
| enumeration process and the resultant assignments.

The enumeration process normally is thought of as a BIOS activity. But I
have noticed recently that Windows can be set to do its own, as I posted
elsewhere in this thread...

In Device Manager, viewing "by connection", there is (though leaving
some out)...

Computer
PCI Bus
VIA Master PCI IDE Controller
Secondary IDE Controller
IDE-CD R/RW 4x4x24

I'm thinking all of that is part of the computer-- except the last,
which is an add-on peripheral. I see I can get Properties for all of
those. The Settings tab of the PCI Bus allows "enumeration" to "Use
Hardware" or "Use BIOS". Mine is bolted to use hardware. There also is a
checkbox to "Override Bridges", which is unchecked for me. I'm thinking
these settings could make a big difference in our doings with this DMA
puzzle-- but I can't really precisely say what! The Settings tab of the
VIA Master PCI IDE Controller actually allows turning off IDE channels.
Mine is set to "default". The Secondary IDE Controller has no Settings
tab. (Neither does the Primary IDE Controller.)

Only the Settings tab of the IDE-CD R/RW 4x4x24 has a DMA checkbox,
which you know is checked for me (& I can uncheck it but much hesitate
to do so again). That is why I'm thinking the PCI Register is or should
be on the CD-ROM device itself. Why -- after unchecking DMA -- should it
go off for anything except the particular device unchecked?

| Those "hints" should have brought with them the chip and
| software.... had that avenue been followed, this discussion may have
| entered a different phase; which has now been done when it was
| appropriate to enter.
| -------

You begin to remind me of Frost's "The Road Not Taken".

| " ONE WAY that WILL kill DMA is to attempt to read a badly burnt or
| scratched disk multiple times... another, errors during the copy/burn
| process
|
| There MAY be a difficulty between the default CDROM drivers supplied
| [default IDE INFs] and the actual drive when accessed.
| There MAY be BIOS issues, using ACPI in some BIOSs may allow DMA to
| be used if not already set.

That sounds logical to me. It is an example of the details I omitted
when saying Win98 might do that, just as an article I found said XP does
do it. I was glad to see you confirmed it. I'm not sure this is what
applied in Shadow's case. He is very pleased with his own solution.

| * It may depend upon other drives attached to the channel, try:
| DVD-RW as Device 0 (1st) as Master and the other CD-RW/hard drive as
| Device 1 (2nd) as Slave."

He has only one device -- the DVD -- on the secondary IDE channel/cable.
When jumpered to be a slave, DVD works. He is able to check DVD for it
in Device Manager, & it will remain checked. And there is a spectacular
speed improvement. When set to be master, DVD fails. He can still check
the DVD box, but it will uncheck itself even without a reboot.

| ------
|
| ** This segment indicated both the actual fix to try; by changing
| channels and device selection and that the device is/would be
| *re-enumerated* if done.

He removing the device in Device Manager & rebooting, but it failed to
activate DMA.

| Now let's see if it can be defined WHERE and HOW the system holds
| enumeration information, and what effect it would have within the
| system...AND how one can remove old or spurious information.
| This would seem to provide a better understanding of the issue...

Zabcar & I have already been wondering about all of that for quite a
while now. He's done more experimentation than I.

||
||| That
||| said, I don't understand why his transfer rate in PIO mode (3.9 GB
||| in 93 min = 0.7 MB/s) is so much worse than that for my DVDROM drive
||| (2.2 MB/s). shrug
||
|| Shadow's situation was extremely odd in that he had to make the DVD a
|| slave alone on its cable to make DMA Mode work. Could be PIO wasn't
|| functioning quite right too until the thing was made a slave. Also,
|| along the way, he was switching cables too. (But, if I were him, I'd
|| probably just let it be now & not revert to PIO just to see!)
||
|||Anyhow, let me start Process Explorer. That has made CPU Usage jump
|||to the 70's! With DMA still on, let me copy that 300 MB's again to
|||see whether it still takes only about 8 minutes....
|||
|||YIKES, it took 19 minutes that time!!! Why???
|||
||| Maybe Process Explorer intercepts each file I/O operation and adds
||| its own overhead ???
||
|| I'm not sure how Process Explorer works. It certainly can slow
|| everything down as it updates its various process displays-- it slows
|| my typing to the point the letter I see displayed was typed 5 letters
|| ago! I guess it can be doing more than just keeping the CPU busy. It
|| may cause intermittent interrupts or such that slows the DMA
|| read/write process. It may have been a poor choice to run Process
|| Explorer. As far as intercepting files, avast! does that each time an
|| executable is read. But that was the same for each test. Not sure
|| whether Process Explorer did any itself. No, I wasn't being quite
|| scientific with that!
|
| Depending upon the update cycle [how often it queries for
| information] it may completely take over the primary process area...
| a slow system will be degraded severely..
| It MAY have been better to use something like filemon or regmon...
| the GDI impact is less severe. It would depend upon what exactly you
| were attempting to obtain/monitor..

You are right. That was a very poor choice on my part. Zabcar did it
right in his own experiments.

||
||| Anyway I tried an alternative test. I copied 168 MB of data from my
||| UDMA-2 10X DVD-ROM to my UDMA-2 hard disc under various conditions.
||| During these tests I was running CpuIdle (a CPU cooler utility) and
||| nothing else. CpuIdle reports an "idle" percentage for the CPU. This
||| figure is normally 98%. With DMA on, and the copy in progress, the
||| CPU averages about 85% idle. With DMA off, this figure drops to
||| around 60%. So clearly there is less CPU usage in UDMA mode.
||
|| Hmmm... good thinking! Right, instead of looking for a speed
|| difference in the copy process-- you just directly measured CPU Idle
|| time. Very good! I will try that with Wintop by tomorrow!
||
||| Here are my test results:
|||
||| Transfer mode Transfer time
||| --------------------------------------------------------------
||| UDMA-0 73s modes set with Set Features in DOS mode
||| UDMA-1 75s & DMA box ticked
||| UDMA-2 81s "
||| UDMA-0 77s "
||| UDMA-1 75s "
||| UDMA-2 82s "
||| PIO (DMA off) 76s DMA box not ticked
||| PIO (DMA off) 79s "
||| PIO (DMA off) 76s "
||| DMA on 85s modes set by BIOS (UDMA-2) and Windows
||| DMA on 73s & DMA box ticked
|||
||| The numbers suggest that there is no real difference in the transfer
||| rates between PIO and UDMA modes. They all work out at about 2.2
||| MB/s, which is about 15X in CDROM terms. I guess this figure must
||| represent some hardware limit external to the drive.
||
|| Hmm. My understanding still is that in DMA mode... the DVD drive
|| firmware takes data from a DVD disc & puts it into a shared memory
|| area (SMA). Then, the CPU takes the data from the SMA & puts it into
|| another SMA between it and the HDD. The HDD firmware than retrieves
|| that & writes it to its disc.
||
|| In PIO mode the CPU does more of the work. But the savings may be
|| less in data transfer time (remember some PIO rates actually equal
|| DMA rates) & more in the fact that the CPU is free more of the time
|| to do something else. So, for instance, if you were printing a large
|| document while doing the data transfer-- THAT would seem to print
|| faster!
||
||| BTW, I repeated the first three measurements to ensure that disc
||| fragmentation was not affecting the results.
|||
|||| This discussion ...
||||
|||| http://discussions.virtualdr.com/arc.../t-101564.html
||||
|||| ... suggests that you have a "CompaQ CDD4401/71 CD-RW, which is
|||| basically a Philips PCRW404K".
||||
|||| I found these Philips support URLs:
|||| http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/p/pcrw404k_00/
|||| http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/p/
|||
|||I only know I've got
|||a Philips at all because I vaguely recall seeing it in the box.
|||
||| There are JPEGs at the Philips links above. At least you will know
||| if your drive looks the same. Anyway I didn't expect you to flash
||| your firmware, I only wanted to see what your drive's specs were.
||
|| I'll get back into that box one day & copy out the model number
|| again. I'm all for running the flash-- if/when I'm absolutely
|| certain it is right! Thanks again. One of those others who did it in
|| the threads you posted had a more pressing reason for it. But I'm
|| not quite positive even he really had to do it, as later he found
|| something else amiss.
||
||||| I tried this again. I used the Debug method (in real DOS) to
||||| configure the drive for multi-word DMA mode 2 and then typed
||||| "win". This time the machine didn't hang but booted into Windows
||||| (the DMA box was ticked beforehand). The same test now took 13m
||||| 16s. shrug
|||
||| I now notice that Windows hangs if I use the Set Features command to
||| change to another mode, eg from PIO to multiword DMA, or from UDMA
||| to multiword DMA, but not when I switch from UDMA-2 to UDMA-0.
||| Maybe the IDE controller's registers need to be reconfigured to
||| match the changes to the drive ???
||
|| I don't know. Can it have to do with enumeration? Maybe MEB has the
|| answer, then-- go read his post thrice! And remember what I wrote
|| elsewhere about the properties of the various components in Device
|| Manager & implications of your particular boot/reboot method. The way
|| you leave DOS for Windows & visa versa likely has an effect-- but I
|| can't quite come up with precisely what!
|
| DOS box activities WILL cause issues, and so will running DOS first
| and starting Windows manually. Both leave residual aspects in memory,
| be it DOS drivers or access methods used while in DOS. Run the old
| *mem /d /p* while in DOS verses DOS box will show some of the
| differences related to memory management, but a more accurate
| portrayal of differences would be shown in some old DOS program like
| Diag2000, InfoPlus, or the like, when compared to Windows eventual
| settings... There was a discussion in this group related to QModem
| in a Windows Dos Box which discussed with some of those issues and
| potentials..

Zabcar boots with Autoexec.bat set to stop at DOS. To get to Windows, he
enters the WIN command. When Windows is exited, he ends up back in DOS.
I've already posed a million questions about the effect such a procedure
would have on his testing of that DMA setting(s). He only goes through
BIOS once.

||
||| - Franc Zabkar
||| --
||| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
|
| Believe it or not, there is a method and reason to my "madness"...
| sometimes its just a little hard to keep up with...
|
| --
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| --
| _________

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:10:03 -0400, "MEB" meb@not
put finger to keyboard and composed:

In at ,
Franc Zabkar contemplated and posted:
| On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:33:35 +1000, Franc Zabkar
| put finger to keyboard and composed:
|
| As for the testing of the CDROM, using a tool such as Nero's CD
|Speed Test [www.cdspeed2000.com], would give a better representation
|of the actual capabilities of the system as configured.
|
| I downloaded NeroDiscSpeed, but it appears to be written for Windows
| 2000/XP/Vista only:
| http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/Ner...peed_41120.zip
|
| Running the executable results in an error:
|
| "The DISCSPEED.EXE file is linked to missing export
| ADVAPI232.DLL:RegOpenCurrentUser".
|
| My version of ADVAPI232.DLL is 4.80.0.1675.
|
|It might also be instructive to view the FAQ
|http://www.cdspeed2000.com/faq.html
|
| - Franc Zabkar


Try these:

Nero DriveSpeed 1.60 - set CD speed
http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroDriveSpeed_160.zip

Nero CD Speed 1.01.3 - tests/diagnostics - this is the one you'll need
http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroCDSpeed_1013.zip

Nero InfoTool 1.02 - information tool
http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroInfoTool_102.zip

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

Thanks.

I tested my Ricoh writer and found that in both DMA and non-DMA modes
the interface burst rate was 1MB/s.

However, the CPU utilisation numbers were consistently different,
although not by much. The following tables represent two sets of five
trials.

DMA off
---------------------------
Speed CPU utilisation %
---------------------------
1X 9 9 9 8 9
2X 16 16 16 16 16
4X 94 94 95 93 92
8X 100 100 100 100 100
---------------------------

DMA on
---------------------------
Speed CPU utilisation %
---------------------------
1X 8 8 7 7 7
2X 12 14 13 14 13
4X 92 93 95 93 92
8X 100 100 100 100 100
---------------------------

So it seems to me that my firmware hack worked, although I didn't gain
much by it.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

In ,
Franc Zabkar contemplated and posted:

| On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:10:03 -0400, "MEB" meb@not
| put finger to keyboard and composed:
|
|In at ,
|Franc Zabkar contemplated and posted:
|| On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:33:35 +1000, Franc Zabkar
|| put finger to keyboard and composed:
||
|| As for the testing of the CDROM, using a tool such as Nero's CD
||Speed Test [www.cdspeed2000.com], would give a better
||representation of the actual capabilities of the system as
||configured.
||
|| I downloaded NeroDiscSpeed, but it appears to be written for Windows
|| 2000/XP/Vista only:
|| http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/Ner...peed_41120.zip
||
|| Running the executable results in an error:
||
|| "The DISCSPEED.EXE file is linked to missing export
|| ADVAPI232.DLL:RegOpenCurrentUser".
||
|| My version of ADVAPI232.DLL is 4.80.0.1675.
||
||It might also be instructive to view the FAQ
||http://www.cdspeed2000.com/faq.html
||
|| - Franc Zabkar
|
|
| Try these:
|
|Nero DriveSpeed 1.60 - set CD speed
|http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroDriveSpeed_160.zip
|
|Nero CD Speed 1.01.3 - tests/diagnostics - this is the one you'll need
|http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroCDSpeed_1013.zip
|
|Nero InfoTool 1.02 - information tool
|http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroInfoTool_102.zip
|
|--
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
|
| Thanks.
|
| I tested my Ricoh writer and found that in both DMA and non-DMA modes
| the interface burst rate was 1MB/s.
|

That's consistant with mine, and what these older boards {BX and early VIA}
seem to show.

| However, the CPU utilisation numbers were consistently different,
| although not by much. The following tables represent two sets of five
| trials.
|
| DMA off
| ---------------------------
| Speed CPU utilisation %
| ---------------------------
| 1X 9 9 9 8 9
| 2X 16 16 16 16 16
| 4X 94 94 95 93 92
| 8X 100 100 100 100 100
| ---------------------------
|
| DMA on
| ---------------------------
| Speed CPU utilisation %
| ---------------------------
| 1X 8 8 7 7 7
| 2X 12 14 13 14 13
| 4X 92 93 95 93 92
| 8X 100 100 100 100 100
| ---------------------------
|
| So it seems to me that my firmware hack worked, although I didn't gain
| much by it.
|
| - Franc Zabkar

Yeah, not much going on there... what is your CPU speed, that it takes 100%
at 8X. The 550E I'm running at the moment utilizes about the X as
percentage, i.e. - 1X is 1% to 8X being 10% {while online and writing
this}... the speed on this Samsung averages about 33.37 [its 52X max],,,
uhm, that was a CAV right? Did you check the Options setup?

So what did the INFO tool show?


--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:01:31 -0700 (PDT), Lee
wrote:
Windows 98 has a built in broken DMA system so as to be able to use
Bus Mastering software to get it all going correctly (I assume, there
being no other excuse). I refer you to Mshdc.inf, and it's
[ESDI_AddReg] section:
HKR,,DriverDesc,,"ESDI Port Driver"
HKR,,DevLoader,,*IOS
HKR,,PortDriver,,ESDI_506.pdr

And Diskdrv.inf and it's [DiskReg] section:
HKR,,,,%DiskClassName%
HKR,,EnumPropPages,,"iosclass.dll,EnumPropPages "
HKR,,SilentInstall,,1
HKR,,NoInstallClass,,1
HKR,,Icon,,"3"

If you will add:
HKR,,IDEDMADrive0,3,01
HKR,,IDEDMADrive1,3,01

to both sections, and then save the inf files back to your inf
folder. Then remove your IDE drives from the Device Mangler and then
reboot, Windows will re-find them and install them with the DMA boxes
already checked.
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/idedma.mspx

This is a "fix" for DMA issues over at msfn forums and it works -
Windows 98 was built with a broken DMA to begin with. If you fix your
inf files and put them in the Windows\Options\Cabs folder then the
next time install Windows over the top of itself it will be set up
with a working DMA system, it's automatic.
I finally got up my courage, jumpered the drive to master, did
all the stuff above, deleted the DVD from the device manager, rebooted
and LOST my DMA. It is slave again (with dma)
[]'s

Shadow wrote:
| On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:01:31 -0700 (PDT), Lee
| wrote:
|Windows 98 has a built in broken DMA system so as to be able to use
|Bus Mastering software to get it all going correctly (I assume, there
|being no other excuse). I refer you to Mshdc.inf, and it's
|[ESDI_AddReg] section:
|HKR,,DriverDesc,,"ESDI Port Driver"
|HKR,,DevLoader,,*IOS
|HKR,,PortDriver,,ESDI_506.pdr
|
|And Diskdrv.inf and it's [DiskReg] section:
|HKR,,,,%DiskClassName%
|HKR,,EnumPropPages,,"iosclass.dll,EnumPropPages "
|HKR,,SilentInstall,,1
|HKR,,NoInstallClass,,1
|HKR,,Icon,,"3"
|
|If you will add:
|HKR,,IDEDMADrive0,3,01
|HKR,,IDEDMADrive1,3,01
|
|to both sections, and then save the inf files back to your inf
|folder. Then remove your IDE drives from the Device Mangler and then
|reboot, Windows will re-find them and install them with the DMA boxes
|already checked.
|http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/idedma.mspx
|
|This is a "fix" for DMA issues over at msfn forums and it works -
|Windows 98 was built with a broken DMA to begin with. If you fix your
|inf files and put them in the Windows\Options\Cabs folder then the
|next time install Windows over the top of itself it will be set up
|with a working DMA system, it's automatic.

| I finally got up my courage, jumpered the drive to master, did
| all the stuff above, deleted the DVD from the device manager, rebooted
| and LOST my DMA. It is slave again (with dma)
| []'s

You are courageous, Shadow, to mess with the fix you came up with that
worked. I've been telling everyone you were fully content!

I wonder what your settings are for the following in Device Manager,
viewing devices "by connection". To get the Properties of some, you have
to select them & click the Properties button-- D-Clkng won't work. Here
are mine...

PCI Bus
VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
Primary IDE Controller
Generic IDE DISK Type01
Generic IDE DISK Type02
Secondary IDE Controller
IDE-CD R/RW 4x4x24

The Settings tab of the PCI Bus allows "Device enumeration" to "Use
Hardware" or "Use BIOS". Mine is bolted to use hardware. There also is a
checkbox to "Override Bridges", which is unchecked for me. Here is the
blurb for those...

"You can use either hardware or BIOS to configure devices connected to
the PCI bus. Click Use Hardware for faster performance with fewer
problems. Click Use BIOS if one or more devices are not working properly
when Use Hardware is selected. Clicking Use BIOS can cause Windows or a
device to stop responding."

"Select (Override Bridges) box to disregard the BIOS settings for the
PCI bridge."

The Settings tab of the VIA Master PCI IDE Controller actually allows
turning off IDE channels. Mine is set to "default". Some of the other
choices are scarey!

The Primary & Secondary IDE Controller have no Settings.

The Generic IDE DISK Type01 is checked for DMA. Int 13 Unit is checked &
shadowed. It is the same for Type02.

The Settings tab of the IDE-CD R/RW 4x4x24 is checked for Disconnect,
Auto Insert Notification & DMA.

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:57:44 -0400, "MEB" meb@not
put finger to keyboard and composed:

In ,
Franc Zabkar contemplated and posted:

| On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:10:03 -0400, "MEB" meb@not
| put finger to keyboard and composed:
|
|In at ,
|Franc Zabkar contemplated and posted:
|| On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:33:35 +1000, Franc Zabkar
|| put finger to keyboard and composed:
||
|| As for the testing of the CDROM, using a tool such as Nero's CD
||Speed Test [www.cdspeed2000.com], would give a better
||representation of the actual capabilities of the system as
||configured.
||
|| I downloaded NeroDiscSpeed, but it appears to be written for Windows
|| 2000/XP/Vista only:
|| http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/Ner...peed_41120.zip
||
|| Running the executable results in an error:
||
|| "The DISCSPEED.EXE file is linked to missing export
|| ADVAPI232.DLL:RegOpenCurrentUser".
||
|| My version of ADVAPI232.DLL is 4.80.0.1675.
||
||It might also be instructive to view the FAQ
||http://www.cdspeed2000.com/faq.html
||
|| - Franc Zabkar
|
|
| Try these:
|
|Nero DriveSpeed 1.60 - set CD speed
|http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroDriveSpeed_160.zip
|
|Nero CD Speed 1.01.3 - tests/diagnostics - this is the one you'll need
|http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroCDSpeed_1013.zip
|
|Nero InfoTool 1.02 - information tool
|http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroInfoTool_102.zip
|
|--
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
|
| Thanks.
|
| I tested my Ricoh writer and found that in both DMA and non-DMA modes
| the interface burst rate was 1MB/s.
|

That's consistant with mine, and what these older boards {BX and early VIA}
seem to show.

| However, the CPU utilisation numbers were consistently different,
| although not by much. The following tables represent two sets of five
| trials.
|
| DMA off
| ---------------------------
| Speed CPU utilisation %
| ---------------------------
| 1X 9 9 9 8 9
| 2X 16 16 16 16 16
| 4X 94 94 95 93 92
| 8X 100 100 100 100 100
| ---------------------------
|
| DMA on
| ---------------------------
| Speed CPU utilisation %
| ---------------------------
| 1X 8 8 7 7 7
| 2X 12 14 13 14 13
| 4X 92 93 95 93 92
| 8X 100 100 100 100 100
| ---------------------------
|
| So it seems to me that my firmware hack worked, although I didn't gain
| much by it.
|
| - Franc Zabkar

Yeah, not much going on there... what is your CPU speed, that it takes 100%
at 8X. The 550E I'm running at the moment utilizes about the X as
percentage, i.e. - 1X is 1% to 8X being 10% {while online and writing
this}... the speed on this Samsung averages about 33.37 [its 52X max],,,
uhm, that was a CAV right? Did you check the Options setup?

So what did the INFO tool show?


--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

I have an AMD K6-2 450MHz. The Ricoh reads at 6X in P-CAV mode.

I used version 0.84 beta of CD Speed for my CPU utilisation and
interface burst rate tests. Version 1.01.3 produced a result of 0 for
the Ricoh's burst rate in both DMA and PIO modes, and a burst rate of
1MB/s (1158KB/s) for the 10X DVD-ROM in DMA mode.

This is what I get with a Drive Check:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/MP6200A_DriveCheck.txt

Version 1.02 of Info Tool produced these results:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/MP6200A/

In DMA mode, Info Tool hung while interrogating the Ricoh. I was able
to regain control of the program by opening or closing the tray, but
the R/W features were not detected.

What I don't understand about the CPU utilisation result in CD Speed
is that during a file copy test with Explorer, CpuIdle hardly budged
from a figure of ~95% idle. Furthermore, the same test with my 10X
DVD-ROM drive (at 2.2MB/s) resulted in 85% CPU idle time in DMA mode
and 60% idle in PIO mode. With the CPU sitting at 98% when completely
idle, this equates to 13% busy in DMA mode and 38% busy in PIO mode, a
difference of 1:3. This ratio is consistent with that observed with CD
Speed:

1X 2X 4X 8X Drive speed for DVD-ROM
--------------
1 2 5 10 % CPU utilisation in DMA mode
3 7 14 29 % CPU utilisation in PIO mode

BTW, CpuIdle was not enabled during CD Speed's tests.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

In ,
Franc Zabkar contemplated and posted:

| On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:57:44 -0400, "MEB" meb@not
| put finger to keyboard and composed:
|
|In ,
|Franc Zabkar contemplated and posted:
|
|| On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:10:03 -0400, "MEB" meb@not
|| put finger to keyboard and composed:
||
||In at ,
||Franc Zabkar contemplated and posted:
||| On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:33:35 +1000, Franc Zabkar
||| put finger to keyboard and composed:
|||
||| As for the testing of the CDROM, using a tool such as Nero's CD
|||Speed Test [www.cdspeed2000.com], would give a better
|||representation of the actual capabilities of the system as
|||configured.
|||
||| I downloaded NeroDiscSpeed, but it appears to be written for
||| Windows 2000/XP/Vista only:
||| http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/Ner...peed_41120.zip
|||
||| Running the executable results in an error:
|||
||| "The DISCSPEED.EXE file is linked to missing export
||| ADVAPI232.DLL:RegOpenCurrentUser".
|||
||| My version of ADVAPI232.DLL is 4.80.0.1675.
|||
|||It might also be instructive to view the FAQ
|||http://www.cdspeed2000.com/faq.html
|||
||| - Franc Zabkar
||
||
|| Try these:
||
||Nero DriveSpeed 1.60 - set CD speed
||http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroDriveSpeed_160.zip
||
||Nero CD Speed 1.01.3 - tests/diagnostics - this is the one you'll
||need http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroCDSpeed_1013.zip
||
||Nero InfoTool 1.02 - information tool
||http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroInfoTool_102.zip
||
||--
|| MEB
|| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
||
|| Thanks.
||
|| I tested my Ricoh writer and found that in both DMA and non-DMA
|| modes the interface burst rate was 1MB/s.
||
|
| That's consistant with mine, and what these older boards {BX and
|early VIA} seem to show.
|
|| However, the CPU utilisation numbers were consistently different,
|| although not by much. The following tables represent two sets of
|| five trials.
||
|| DMA off
|| ---------------------------
|| Speed CPU utilisation %
|| ---------------------------
|| 1X 9 9 9 8 9
|| 2X 16 16 16 16 16
|| 4X 94 94 95 93 92
|| 8X 100 100 100 100 100
|| ---------------------------
||
|| DMA on
|| ---------------------------
|| Speed CPU utilisation %
|| ---------------------------
|| 1X 8 8 7 7 7
|| 2X 12 14 13 14 13
|| 4X 92 93 95 93 92
|| 8X 100 100 100 100 100
|| ---------------------------
||
|| So it seems to me that my firmware hack worked, although I didn't
|| gain much by it.
||
|| - Franc Zabkar
|
| Yeah, not much going on there... what is your CPU speed, that it
|takes 100% at 8X. The 550E I'm running at the moment utilizes about
|the X as percentage, i.e. - 1X is 1% to 8X being 10% {while online
|and writing this}... the speed on this Samsung averages about 33.37
|[its 52X max],,, uhm, that was a CAV right? Did you check the Options
|setup?
|
| So what did the INFO tool show?
|
|
|--
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
|
| I have an AMD K6-2 450MHz. The Ricoh reads at 6X in P-CAV mode.

Well, that's about the min. for reliable CDR/W. You must be having some
difficulties by now with the new inks and disks..?

|
| I used version 0.84 beta of CD Speed for my CPU utilisation and
| interface burst rate tests. Version 1.01.3 produced a result of 0 for
| the Ricoh's burst rate in both DMA and PIO modes, and a burst rate of
| 1MB/s (1158KB/s) for the 10X DVD-ROM in DMA mode.
|
| This is what I get with a Drive Check:
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/MP6200A_DriveCheck.txt

Got a 404 on the MP6200A_DriveCheck.txt link
It should be:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/MP6...DriveCheck.txt

Oh so its only 6X??? oh wow...

|
| Version 1.02 of Info Tool produced these results:
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/MP6200A/

Strange, 0 read speed, no read-out, the drive isn't being recognized
properly... see a couple of differences in our drivers, esdi-506.pdr, loaded
system files, etc...

1.03.3 Info Tool read-out for my Samsung drive has been sent to you for
comparison... meb-samsung-InfoTool.zip

|
| In DMA mode, Info Tool hung while interrogating the Ricoh. I was able
| to regain control of the program by opening or closing the tray, but
| the R/W features were not detected.

You might be getting a residual from your manual flash change or your
present driver configuration... though I have noted those same issues when a
drive is about to flake out..

|
| What I don't understand about the CPU utilization result in CD Speed
| is that during a file copy test with Explorer, CpuIdle hardly budged
| from a figure of ~95% idle. Furthermore, the same test with my 10X
| DVD-ROM drive (at 2.2MB/s) resulted in 85% CPU idle time in DMA mode
| and 60% idle in PIO mode. With the CPU sitting at 98% when completely
| idle, this equates to 13% busy in DMA mode and 38% busy in PIO mode, a
| difference of 1:3. This ratio is consistent with that observed with CD
| Speed:
|
| 1X 2X 4X 8X Drive speed for DVD-ROM
| --------------
| 1 2 5 10 % CPU utilisation in DMA mode
| 3 7 14 29 % CPU utilisation in PIO mode
|
| BTW, CpuIdle was not enabled during CD Speed's tests.
|
| - Franc Zabkar

Might want to compare the drivers - yours verses mine, and re-flash the
Ricoh with the authorized flash version for comparison.
Something is wacked here, but so far its eluding me... let me mual over your
drivers and info for a bit...

Did notice that 6X CDROMs are listed as unsupported in Nero's CFG and it
contains no obvious Ricoh entries.

http://www.ricoh.com/drive/asia/supp...6200/pc_a.html
MP6200A(ATAPI model); Bus master driver.
.. In some cases the Bus Master device driver does not support the CD-RW
drive. In this case, it is recommended to change to a Standard IDE driver or
update the driver for your specific Bus Master chipset. For details, contact
your PC manufacturer.

Application information
.. Problems may occur if memory resident programs like anti-virus software
are installed. This may conflict with the writing software. Please uninstall
the anti-virus program before writing to the CD. If this is not possible,
deactivate the anti-virus while writing.
.. Errors may occur with Task-scheduler running in the background. This is a
utility program installed by Windows 98 Plus. To avoid this, disable the
program or change the scheduled auto-running time.
.. Real-Player (version 4.0 or over) may cause errors while recording due to
conflicts with the writing software. Uninstall this program before writing
to the CD.

Specs.
http://www.ricoh.com/drive/asia/cd-r/mp6200/

Hmm, not exactly a speedy drive

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:47:50 -0400, "PCR" wrote:

I'm changing the title because thread is too long
I wonder what your settings are for the following in Device Manager,
viewing devices "by connection". To get the Properties of some, you have
to select them & click the Properties button-- D-Clkng won't work. Here
are mine...
You probably know, but windowsbutton-pause is a fast shortcut
to hardware manager. Save you from RSI :P

PCI Bus
VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
Primary IDE Controller
Generic IDE DISK Type01
Generic IDE DISK Type02
Secondary IDE Controller
IDE-CD R/RW 4x4x24

The Settings tab of the PCI Bus allows "Device enumeration" to "Use
Hardware" or "Use BIOS". Mine is bolted to use hardware. There also is a
checkbox to "Override Bridges", which is unchecked for me. Here is the
blurb for those...
Use hardware
the button under that called "substitute connections" is
unmarked.


"You can use either hardware or BIOS to configure devices connected to
the PCI bus. Click Use Hardware for faster performance with fewer
problems. Click Use BIOS if one or more devices are not working properly
when Use Hardware is selected. Clicking Use BIOS can cause Windows or a
device to stop responding."

"Select (Override Bridges) box to disregard the BIOS settings for the
PCI bridge."
Can't find that. But Microsoft translates very badly. The
spell checker is called an OROgraphic checker


The Settings tab of the VIA Master PCI IDE Controller actually allows
turning off IDE channels. Mine is set to "default". Some of the other
choices are scarey!
I tried those settings before. Don't seem to be related to the
problem. I don't believe they froze the PC, but if they did I managed
to revert in safe mode, or restoring registry, can't remember which.

The Primary & Secondary IDE Controller have no Settings.
Here too.

The Generic IDE DISK Type01 is checked for DMA. Int 13 Unit is checked &
shadowed. It is the same for Type02.

The Settings tab of the IDE-CD R/RW 4x4x24 is checked for Disconnect,
Auto Insert Notification & DMA.
Above is same here, except the Sony-DRM-triggering auto-insert
is unset for the dvd.

Shadow wrote:
| On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:47:50 -0400, "PCR" wrote:
|
| I'm changing the title because thread is too long
|I wonder what your settings are for the following in Device Manager,
|viewing devices "by connection". To get the Properties of some, you
|have to select them & click the Properties button-- D-Clkng won't
|work. Here are mine...
| You probably know, but windowsbutton-pause is a fast shortcut
| to hardware manager. Save you from RSI :P

Yes, I do that, thanks. Someone else posted it long ago. That is faster
to do than "Control Panel, System, Device Manager tab", but not
necessarily easier to write.

|
|PCI Bus
| VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
| Primary IDE Controller
| Generic IDE DISK Type01
| Generic IDE DISK Type02
| Secondary IDE Controller
| IDE-CD R/RW 4x4x24
|
|The Settings tab of the PCI Bus allows "Device enumeration" to "Use
|Hardware" or "Use BIOS". Mine is bolted to use hardware. There also
|is a checkbox to "Override Bridges", which is unchecked for me. Here
|is the blurb for those...

| Use hardware
| the button under that called "substitute connections" is
| unmarked.

To get the blurb on "substitute connections" (if any), R-Clk its
checkbox & click "What's This". Then, you may R-Clk the blurb to copy
it. However, it sounds to be just other words for what I've got--
Override Bridges.

Since neither of our overrides is checked-- I guess that won't explain
why you must set your DVD to be a slave for DMA & I may let mine remain
a master (which I can only presume it is until I open that box again
some day).

Under your Secondary IDE Controller there is JUST the DVD listed, like
mine shows just that CD-R/W?

|
|"You can use either hardware or BIOS to configure devices connected to
|the PCI bus. Click Use Hardware for faster performance with fewer
|problems. Click Use BIOS if one or more devices are not working
|properly when Use Hardware is selected. Clicking Use BIOS can cause
|Windows or a device to stop responding."
|
|"Select (Override Bridges) box to disregard the BIOS settings for the
|PCI bridge."

| Can't find that. But Microsoft translates very badly. The
| spell checker is called an OROgraphic checker

Uh-huh. You appear to have "substitute connections", instead. But we are
both unchecked for that. What are you saying about your spell checker?

|
|The Settings tab of the VIA Master PCI IDE Controller actually allows
|turning off IDE channels. Mine is set to "default". Some of the other
|choices are scarey!

| I tried those settings before. Don't seem to be related to the
| problem. I don't believe they froze the PC, but if they did I managed
| to revert in safe mode, or restoring registry, can't remember which.

Those settings are scarey to fool with. But, if everything is showing up
for you in Device Manager, looks like you've got both your IDE Channels
enabled.

|
|The Primary & Secondary IDE Controller have no Settings.

| Here too.

Uh-huh. Could be these controllers can be made to disappear by fooling
with the IDE channels. I wouldn't want to ever try! Glad you survived
it!

|
|The Generic IDE DISK Type01 is checked for DMA. Int 13 Unit is
|checked & shadowed. It is the same for Type02.
|
|The Settings tab of the IDE-CD R/RW 4x4x24 is checked for Disconnect,
|Auto Insert Notification & DMA.

| Above is same here, except the Sony-DRM-triggering auto-insert
| is unset for the dvd.

That shouldn't have a bearing on the DMA issue. Sounds like all your
settings are much like mine. I see nothing in this to explain your
peculiar circumstance with that DVD.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR