This thread hangs in the "breeze" without the reason for it, therefo

Gary S. Terhune had gone through the clean installs of the various 98
versions (Gold, FE, SE) and their upgrade status through finalization of IE
6 SP1 and it's upgrades. Kudos to him for the effort.
He also mentioned a CDROM issued 2004, of all updates once? offered by
Microsoft.
I was, of course, curious whether this CDROM contained these original
"designed for 98" updates. I have yet to receive an answer.

I had extended other available "designed for 98" files verses the available
"designed for IE6 and XP" files and fixes presently being installed via
Microsoft update pursuant IE 6 installation.
The problem being, that IE 6 was never properly ported for use in 98 or
Millennium (possible NT4 as well).
Installation of IE 6 was, instead, achieved via radical and potentially
dangerous base system files changed in these environments.

The issues revolve around the fact that Microsoft will end any updates and
other support for 98 in June 2006 which will leave 98, Millennium and
possibly NT4 in potentially compromised positions. As many are contemplating
continuing use of these OSs for an extended time period, which files should
be used?

Gary extended that these other updates should be address outside that
thread. He also thought it appropriate to address what those updates were
for.

The thread, per usual, runs backwards save for the first segment showing
the files in question. Both the original 98 and the IE 6 files which I had
saved to disk are shown:

MEB i would beg to differ with you on that. It seems the only files now
offered
are security related, hence any needed system updates are not available.

PER saved local updates folder (note: a few are duplicate fixes, and this
only lists the ones presently "on disk", other "may be" saved on cdrom)

WMFADist.exe
243450USA8.EXE
245729US8.EXE
249863USA8_128.EXE
249973USA8.exe
256015USA8.EXE
259728USA8.EXE
273017USA8.EXE
273727USA8.EXE
273991USA8.EXE
274548USA8.EXE
314147USA8.EXE
314941USA8.EXE
323172USA8.EXE
323255USA8.EXE
329048USA8.EXE
329115USA8.EXE
811630USA8.EXE
823559USA8.EXE
840315USA8.EXE
888113USA8.EXE
908519FX.EXE
crlupd.exe
ie401dbg.exe
IE6.0sp1-KB823353-x86-ENU.exe
IE6.0sp1-KB833989-x86-ENU.exe
IE6.0sp1-KB834707-Windows-NT4sp6a-98-ME-x86-ENU.exe
IE6.0sp1-KB867801-x86-ENU.exe
IE6.0sp1-KB887797-Windows-NT4sp6a-98-ME-x86-ENU.exe
IE6.0sp1-KB889293-Windows-NT4sp6a-98-ME-x86-ENU.exe
IE6.0sp1-KB905915-Windows-98-ME-x86-ENU.exe
IE-KB903235-x86-ENU.exe
iuctl.cab
mdac_typ.exe
MSJavWU_8073687b82d41db93f4c2a04af2b34d.exe
OE6.0sp1-KB837009-x86-ENU.exe
q293818_crlupd.EXE
q313829.exe
scr56en.exe
SPEU.exe
ticker.ocx
vbs56men.exe
Windows98-KB891711-v2-ENU.EXE
Windows98-KB896358-EAR.EXE
Windows98-KB908519-ENU.EXE
Windows-KB870669-x86-ENU.exe
dotnetfx.exe
NDP1.1sp1-KB867460-X86.exe


OTHER tools or fixes

mcrepair.exe
InstMsiA.exe
50comupd.exe
Office97-KB830354-ENU.exe
security update 28 Windows-KB870669-x86-ENU.exe
MDAC_TYP.EXE2.8.EXE
ENU_Q832483_MDAC_x86_2_8.EXE
cc_pkg.exe
immc.exe
o2ksr1a.exe
ie6setup.exe
dcom98.exe
REGCLEAN.EXE
tweakui.exe
vbrun60sp4.exe
js56men_01-16-03.exe
jvm_3805.exe
98 zero admin kit.exe
INREG98.EXE
AMDK6UPD.EXE
GenuineCheck.exe
ie401dbg.exe
webdevaccess.exe
wmfdist_2002.exe


PER BELARC PRIOR TO un-install/re-install of IE 6 SP1
Installed Microsoft Hotfixes

..NETFramework [uninstalled/reinstalled to check for possible errors in or
caused by .net]
1.1
S867460
on 01/22/2006

DataAccess
Q318202
on 02/17/2005
Q329414-21
on 08/18/2004
Q903235
Q329414-25
on 11/15/2004
Q832483
on 12/10/2005
KB870669

DirectX
*KB904706

Internet Explorer
SP1 (SP1)
Q240308
Q313829
Q823353
Q833989
Q834707
Q867282
Q867801
Q889293
Q883939
Q889293
Q890923
Q891781
Q896688
Q903235

Win98.SE
*UPD238453
*UPD239887
*UPD256015
*UPD259728
*UPD260067
*UPD273017
*UPD273991
*UPDQ823559

Win98
*UPD245729
*UPD314941
*UPD323172
*UPD323255
*UPD329115
*UPD811630
*UPD888113
*UPD890175
*UPD891711
*UPD896358

Windows Media Player
*WM819639
*KB837272
*WM885492

Note that many of the SYSTEM updates are not available on Microsoft, nor do
I have them locally.
Which would appear to mean, that wiping a system (starting from scratch)
would leave these OS fixes unattended to.

As for the long term effect on any fresh install of 98SE,, ?? Obviously
those who do so will never have these system fixes once offered.


"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
As far as I can tell, all they've done is clean up the list. Many, many
Updates are subsumed into Cumulative Updates or made obsolete by later
versions of IE, WMP, etc. No, you can't patch your IE 5.5 -- your only
option is to upgrade to IE6 -- and that might be a shame for some folks,
but
it's fully logical from MS's point of view.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
In addition, I noted that several of the files were removed from the
catalog for download a year or so (maybe sooner, might not have noticed)
after being installed. And the listings have shrunk over the last 8 or
10
months. Hopefully later cumulative fixes do take care of those issues.
There
were a few hh changes which may have been finalized.
Though, if I had to guess, Microsoft only has the MOST crucial
available
now.

As for the inability to update "on site" I have decided not to worry
about
it any more. The site checks my system, and from either the catalog or
the
download page, when the install or choice is made, zip, stalled, nada..
been
through dozens of supposed fixes, darn near trashed the system with some
of
them,, now back to a semi stable system again, so best to just leave it
alone.... as long as I can find a link to the files shown that I need
somewhere.
So, again, anyone have the direct link to this player update?

BTW: did anyone remind Microsoft that they still need to issue a patch
to
fix the missing files issues after installing IE 6 SP1 BEFORE they end
support, or are they going to try to brazen it out.. I did, after all,
document some of the major errors "ground work" for them..


"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
1. Most of the updates that did not need to be reinstalled were
probably
subsumed into the "Cumulative Updates", or the process of uninstalling
IE6
did not uninstall the updates that are "missing".

2. Which version of Windows are you running and which version of WMP
are
you
looking for? You say you can't download them -- do you see them at
Windows
Updates but they fail to install? Or you don't see them at Windows
Updates?

3. I wouldn't particularly trust Belarc Advisor. I don't trust any of
those
things to be up to date and accurate. My guess is that most of your
discrepancies derive from #1, above.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
Let me say thanks again, this will be helpful to all who are still
involved
with 98.

I note something rather strange, which is somewhat related (for
comparison), when I un-installed then re-installed IE 6 SP1.

Though I had conscientiously applied all patches/fixes from
Microsoft
since
the last clean install in 2003, many of the prior updates were
unregistered
as having been installed.
44 patches/fixes had been installed prior to removal (five more
needed
which I could not get off of the update site, plus the newest player
update)[so 50 total], 34 shown after reinstalling and updating (from
local
files shown as needed on v4) (the Player update is still needed but
I
still
can't download). At least as shown by Belarc Advisor.

Makes one wonder if Microsoft put all the files needed on the
update
site,
or are 16 updates/fixes no longer viable?

Anyone have a direct link to the player update.


"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
referencing Wiindows Updates -- Part 3, Security Updates CD -
microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
per request by Gary

I had seen another list his downloads and thought it appropriate to list
others of apparent value to some who might need them. As for creating a
separate thread to specifically address those updates, I have attempted
discussions in two other threads which would or may have lead to such
explanations, to no avail [I did place the bait but got flamed instead]..
therefore, perhaps another party might do so.. I would, however, be
willing
to put in my "two cents" in any discussion.

Moreover, the corporate site appears to be the only place to obtain many
of
these files, and does provide explanation (so far, though I do recommend
the
download of these files now rather than searching later for them for some
reason, only to find they are gone).

Having said that, I would also caution indiscriminate installation of
these
files without a present need, or specifically if presently using IE 6.
These
are, for the most part, "plain jane" 98 and SE files, and will severely
conflict with IE 6 if already installed.

re regclean: I also have found that REGCLEAN can cause problems, at times,
for some users. REGCLEAN can and does "reset" certain variables in the
registry which may conflict with other programs settings, registry
settings,
or requirements. It is NEVER suggested for use unless as a last resort
attempted fix for very specific issues.

I also avoid listing registry modifications openly upon public forum,,
inappropriate modifications can be seriously damaging. Many see these
"fixes", think their system has the same problem (which it doesn't) and
cause more severe problems or conflicts.
Hence, in another thread " rundll32.exe error", I suggested contact to
the party, with several of you regarding registry modifications, rather
than
posting his answer, without explanation, openly there. I had hoped to have
the "experts" provide their knowledge of Microsoft's registry areas (could
we now say hives) for creation of a similar public data base in layman's
terms..
Granted, various MVPs and others have done so elsewhere or on their own
sites, but this would be an extremely valuable collected resource here.
This
is, after all, the general discussions format. Sort of the last chance to
"pick the brains" of the "experts" before they drift off to XP and forget
the nuances associated with the 98/NT meld.

And for the last: I have stated an obvious occurrence. Microsoft
specifically declared they would no longer support or supply fixes for the
98 OS. They have done exactly as they stated. They no longer supply the
old
files and fixes upon the update site. The only 98 "fixes" appear to be
the
IDE fix, and a very few others. For any support, one MUST be using IE 6
(or
can one still access with 5.5) and have placed oneself in the "loop" of
security and other fixes pursuant the XP files installed thereof, e.g.
they
are not supplying the necessary fixes for 98 and apparently Millennium
which
would be needed if one had not installed these XP files via IE 6, else
they
would still be listed, and one would not need to install IE 6 merely to
access the site. [It would be nice to see the processor (speed) fix posted
there though]

Along that same line: here is the "why" of interest in this
security/fixes
updates CD to which you have referred, and you and I have discussed
elsewhere.
Does this supply some of the older necessary fixes which I have listed?
Could one use this CD after the "end" and have a reasonable system to use
for an extended period?
Alas, I can not reply with answer for myself and others, as I have yet to
obtained a copy; must have gotten lost in the mail. 8{%

"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
No offense taken, MEB, but my intention with this thread was to focus
very
narrowly on Windows Updates. While many of the downloads you mention
might
be valuable to individual users, they are not necessary to most users,
and
in fact quite a few of them would be dangerous to a naive user's system.
Windows Updates is very specifically tailored such that only *very*
safe,
fully tested patches that apply to *all*, or at least most Windows
systems.
And, it may have been my mistake, but my impression was that you were
suggesting that many items that had once been offered at Windows Updates
were no longer there, which is the specific argument I was refuting. If
that
wasn't the idea you were trying to put across, well, it's what I heard.
Again, I was, and am, totally focused on Windows Updates in this thread,
nothing broader. Personally, I'd rather the discussion in this thread
maintain that narrow focus in order to prevent confusion on the part of
average users who want to use this thread as a reference. Your piling on
of
extraneous material, particularly without any detailed discussion of the
applicability of each download you name, just confuses things.

As for why you got notifications for so many of those downloads, there
have
been a few different "Downloads Notification" programs and yes, their
intended target audience is IT professionals -- you get notification of
all
kinds of *possibly* useful downloads and it's up to you to decide which
ones
apply to which systems under your management. I get these notifications
myself. But it's irresponsible to suggest to average users that their
arsenal of patches and other useful tools is somehow lacking if they
don't
have all the items you list. That simply isn't true. My 98 systems get
by
just fine, and are as secure as 98 systems can be, without *any* of
those
items you listed (other than those already offered at Windows Updates.)
And
inappropriate patching can be just as damaging to a system as no
patching
at
all.

Might I suggest that you post your long list as a new thread, and add
some
specifics to each item in the list, so that others might better
determine
for themselves which of the items is one they should download and store
for
possible current or future use. As an example, you list REGCLEAN. My own
opinion is that only those who are already intimately familiar with the
Registry and it's ways should use REGCLEAN, that it is potentially
damaging
to a normal system if used incorrectly.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
I am sorry Gary, no offence was intended, not sure why everyone is so
touchy here...

I had already expressed my personal gratitude for your work and
effort
to
document this issue in public forum..
Nor was I arguing with you. We are supposedly addressing updates and
ramifications. Or rather, the thread was particularly ripe for this
type
of
discussion.

The point I extended was: That I had been directed to download these
particular files via notifications sent to me BY Microsoft in some
form
(update site OR emailed notice), OR I had done so to fix some error
from
an
installation of one of the updates/fixes, again per Microsoft
recommendation.
Were some never part of the update service for the GENERAL PUBLIC?
Perhaps,
but I was certainly notified.
Were they only for IT Professionals, or System Managers, or those who
specifically requested notification?
Then the natural question would be raised: Why was that environment
notified to install them and the general public was not notified or
offered
them?

As for the general installation issues, unless and until Microsoft
patches
the errors caused by the installation of IE 6 SP1, these security
fixes
appear as gloss, insufficient (as of yet) to remedy the problems
associated
with such installation.

In that light, when the true end comes for any support of 98, there
will
be
no real need to install or use Microsoft browsers, as the "security
issues"
Microsoft is presently patching are related to that installation, NOT
the
original OS. These are XP related fixes, not OS 98 fixes.

There will be no reason to use their Media player as there are
several
hundred better products out there.

Perhaps no need to use Microsoft products at all for these older
systems..
There are now rather nice versions of Linux which are constantly being
upgraded by the public, and supply a nice graphical environment,
better
security, and numerous user programs.. and still run surprisingly well
on
the older machines, with better memory management, lower overhead,
less
bloat... And a new generation of second hand computer children that
will
grow up using Linux instead of Microsoft.. (Then again, that was a cry
heard
before which never came to pass, though there are now thousands of
computers
RIPE for such installation and no reason not to..)

Moreover, Microsoft will certainly close themselves to further use by
several thousand people, both in the browser arena, and also their
search
engine... perhaps a somewhat grievous error on their part as that will
impact their marketing of advertisements.. and this without addressing
the
legal consequences..

I suppose the short is, that when the time comes to reinstall 98 I
may
NOT
install IE 6 SP1, and use, instead the older specifically "designed
for
98"
files which worked so well before the installation of IE 6. With a
different
browser, of course, as there will be no need to contact the update
site
which requires it. The loss of .net will be an impact on the web based
applications I use, but there are programs which provide those same
functions without it.. I have already downloaded several in
anticipation..

On a more practical side: The virus, worm, and Trojan writers will
all
be
keying upon XP and the newer versions (NT5 and above) of Microsoft
products,
and forget about the limited base of 98 users.
Why?
Because that will take SPECIAL coding to attack the non-supported
ancient
98 code environment, why bother. Not much "glamour" there.. {Let's see
if
we
can picture this: "Hey dudes, I wrote this nifty virus for 98 and it
just
creamed them." ... "Oh really, so you trashed a couple thousand
computers,,
big deal,, I trashed 2000 servers and a million computers before they
caught
it. LOOOOOZZZZEEEERRR."}
Thereby, plain installed 98 has the potential to become one of the
safest
OSs out there, in the long run. IF and only if one never installs IE 6
XP
based files..[pending of course the proper patching of the errors]


"Gary S. Terhune" wrote in message
...
The patches you list are either already in my list (often under
different
names or subsumed into later patches) or never belonged at Windows
Updates
in the first place. You are arguing an entirely different context. I
went
through the first couple of dozen and if they aren't already in my
list,
they are not meant for Windows systems in general (only apply to
seldom-installed optional components like SNMP server) or are
"Hotfixes",
patches that are usually only available by calling MS and explaining
that
you have the specific conditions listed in the KB and that you need
the
patch.

In short, your implication (or did you state it outright?) that
Windows
Updates no longer has a lot of stuff that it used to is false.
Anything
that
is no longer available has been superceded.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User

"MEB" meb@not wrote in message
...
I would beg to differ with you on that. It seems the only files
now
offered
are security related, hence any needed system updates are not
available.

PER saved local updates folder (note: a few are duplicate fixes,
and
this
only lists the ones presently "on disk", other "may be" saved on
cdrom)








Another segment in "The Stupification of America" series.
Do not take offense, this does not state or infer stupidity, this is
stupefaction of the nation. Look up the term.
And yes I know it is misspelled.