thanatoid wrote:
| "PCR" wrote in
| :
|
| Top-posted intro:
| WOW... Thanks for such a comprehensive reply. Really nice of
| you.

You are welcome.

| thanatoid wrote:
|| Hi gang.
||
|| Something a little strange is happening.
||
|| I am running 98SELite on a 2GHz machine with 1GB of RAM. I
|| have the following lines in system.ini and everything runs
|| fine (but... see later):
||
|| [vcache]
|| MinFileCache=0
|| MaxFileCache=524288
|
| That should be fine.
|
|| (another section)
|| MinPagingFileSize=204800
|| MaxPagingFileSize=204800
|
| Setting a max size for the swap file could get you in deep
| trouble with certain MVPs! Better not let Harper see this
| in particular! However, I doubt it affects resources.
|
| No, it doesn't, I was just describing the sys setup. The damn
| resources have 64K and that's that. And apparently NO program
| (except Ctl-Alt-Del) to free them up. SIGH.

Closing a program with Ctrl-Alt-Del won't necessarily free resources,
because the program may not do its housekeeping regarding the resource
heaps that way. The program needs to tell the system that heap space has
been freed. If a program has hung & cannot be closed normally, possibly
TaskInfo 2000 will get it to close in an orderly manner. I know
EndItAll2 will first send a close request to a hung program. If it still
fails to close, then it will be killed the way Ctrl-Alt-Del kills them.

|| (I haven't used ANY of the swap file since I put in the
|| 1GB RAM
|
| If the swap file isn't being used very often, consider...
|
| "ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1"
| ...in System.ini, [386.Enh] Section.
|
| I have that line in there but I didn't think it was worth
| mentioning. I don't know if THAT accounts for the swap file not
| being used at all, or whether it's the 1GB of RAM, but whatever.

The more RAM, the less chance there will be a need to use the swap file.
Looks like "ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1" is meant to revert to Win95
determinations as to when to write to the swap file...

• INFO: The Windows 98 PageFile_Call_Async_Manager Service
(223294) - If this entry is absent from System.ini, the default setting
for ConservativeSwapfileUsage is 1 for Windows 95, and 0 (zero) for
Windows 98. When Windows 98 performs asynchronous ...
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223294

• 125 tips for Windows 98
(835834) - ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1. This could reduce the amount of
disk swapping Windows does, and so speed up your system..
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/835834

| But I'm not sure it has anything to do with resources. And
| I can't quite recall what it is supposed to do! Maybe it
| reverts swap file handling back to Win95 methods, which I
| think spent less time anticipating the size to make the
| swap file. This is probably what you want to do-- instead
| of setting the max/min to the same number!
|
| I don't know. I've had the swap file set to min=max, about 2.5
| (this time it's just 200MB since nothing ever uses it anyway :-)
| , ever since 1998 or so. Hard to get rid of some habits.

It has been said, in a rare circumstance-- you could have a horrible
crash that way! That's why I discontinued the practice, myself-- though
it actually is suggested in Windows 98 Secrets (Livingston/Straub),
pp.1041-1042! It says to defrag the drive first for contiguous space.
Then, set both the max & min to same size of 2.5 x installed RAM. That
was nearly 1 GB for me! This is meant to reduce certain swap file
processing activity-- which I guess is re-sizing decision making.

| And EVERYBODY having a different opinion on the RIGHT way to set
| it up doesn't help either!

Maybe try the easily reversible experiments Buffalo has suggested.

|| Here's the weirdness:
||
|| I seem to be running out of system resources all the time
|| and quite rapidly - much more so than when I still had
|| just 256 MB of RAM. After about ½ hr on the web, I get to
|| about 20% on the 1st and 3rd resource and sometimes I have
|| to reboot a few minutes later.
|
| Does it happen just by connecting to the WEB (i.e., you've
| clicked your connectoid, thanatoid)-- or do you have to do
| something like NG activity, browsing, or downloading?
| Maybe...
|
| No, only the web, which is why after "sleeping" on it I have
| decided that it must be the Opera and FFox browsers... See my
| reply to Franc for more musings on browsers...

It could still be worthwhile to play with swap file & disk cache
settings, because they may have an effect on your browser's doings.
Also, check the size of your TIF storage area-- maybe make it larger or
even smaller.

| Do you have "System Monitor" in START... System Tools? If
| not, get it from "START, Settings, Control Panel,
| Add/Remove Programs, Windows Setup tab, D-Clk System Tools,
| check System Monitor, OK, Apply, OK". May as well take
| "Resource Meter", too. Now, go through the menus and at
| least have it display
|
| (a) Swap file in use.
| (b) Swap file size.
| (c) Swappable memory.
| (d) Unused physical memory.
| (e) Allocated memory.
| (f) Disk cache size.
| (g) Locked memory
| (h) Other memory
| (i) Kernel Processor Usage
| (j) Kernel Threads
|
| Keep an eye especially on Swap File in Use & Disk Cache
| Size before/after the problem begins.
|
| I feel /terrible/ saying this after you went to so much trouble
| describing the procedure, but I don't think I can muster up the
| patience to go through such a process. Also, I have played with
| System Monitor and I find it 50% mystifying and 50% annoying. I
| just LOVE it when you click the ? on "page discards" and it
| tells you "shows page discards", or something. How f*g helpful.
|
| So I have basically decided to forget about its existence.

That was basically all written long ago, not just now. I suspect disk
cache involvement in the resources problem. I know mine grows very large
when I get a resources crash over a different matter.

| SNIP
|
| Here is what I always post about resources...
|
| Generally, if you've got any Resources at all, you've got
| enough (said Harper or Martell). This is because it won't
| blow, until Resources are zero. Then, you get an out of
| memory error (no matter how much RAM you've got).
|
| Yes, I sort of knew that and I read more about it as well.
| I have one of many technicians' favorite tools, a RAM MANAGER!!!
|
| The one I use on this machine is FreeRAM XP Pro 1.40. It's free,
| and works on 9x-XP. (Maybe Vista, although WHO CARES ;-)
|
| Leaving aside the endless discussion of whether its basic
| functionality is of /any/ use to anyone whatsoever, it does have
| ONE feature which I think /anyone/ will agree is useful... You
| can set it to warn you when the damn System Resources fall below
| a certain percentage. In fact, that's the only reason I know
| that's what's been happening, other than system fonts all over
| the screen and no icons within the Alt-Tab switching...

Resource Meter puts up a warning of its own. Unfortunately, sometimes
that warning is hidden under another window! But its icon in the Tray
also will turn red-- if only one can remember to look at it once in a
while!

| Perhaps put Resource Meter in your Tray, to see how low
| they get. A reboot would clear it, but, obviously, it's
| better to cleanup your Startup Group. Do you have "Resource
| Meter" in START... System Tools? If not, get it from
| "START, Settings, Control Panel, Add/Remove Programs,
| Windows Setup tab, D-Clk System Tools, check System
| Resource Meter, OK, Apply, OK". May as well take "System
| Monitor", too.
|
| Aarggh! ;-)
|
| Right now FreeRAM XP is telling me I have 65%, 65%, and 77%. Not
| bad. I have XNews running, Firefox is loaded but I haven't
| gotten around to going to a site with it yet (trying to find the
| link as I write this!). Not bad.

Those are respectable figures. That 1st figure -- system resources -- is
always set to the lower of the other two. It has no separate meaning of
its own. My own figures right now are 50% System, 50% User, 70% GDI. I'm
online in this NG & have done some browsing.

| (A little later, I have 2 FFox windows open in addition to
| above, and I am at 56%, 56%, 69%. Still not bad. There were NO
| images to speak of on any of the pages I have gone through.)

Keep it up. Check those resources after going to each of your favorite
sites. Do they increase after closing a site? Try closing the browser
too to see whether it will free them.

| The meter will show three figures: System, User & GDI.
| System is set to the lower of the others. GDI, I take to be
| the province of one's Display Adapter & out of one's
| control, except by prayer maybe. I know my GDI resources
| went up after switching to an LSD
|
| ahem...

Yikes! I only did that once-- & I didn't like it!

| monitor.
|
| Very interesting,. Another argument for my arsenal of anti-LCD
| monitor information.

No-- I have more GDI resources with this LCD monitor than I had with its
non-LCD predecessors!

| Then again, everybody uses XP and Vista, so...
|
| User Resources
| can be controlled by limiting the number of programs
| running.
|
| http://www.pcmag.com/ 's StartUpCop has "undo", and it is
| more than a combination of "START, Run, MSInfo32, Software
| Environment, Startup Programs" and "START, Run, MSConfig,
| Startup tab". It can even do a permanent delete from the
| Startup Group. This is configurable, and one may maintain
| multiple configurations of items to include in the Group.
|
| I use IARSN's TaskInfo 2000, and have been for years. The
| freeware version is better than the paid version! Anyway, it's
| great at showing RAM used and dozens of other things, and it
| will also kill programs that don't show up or won't die with
| TaskManager.
|
| For startup, I have StartUp Changer 2000, and my startup is VERY
| conservative. After a boot up, doing nothing, I have 80-90& (I
| forget exactly) in all 3 Sys Resources.

That's good, then. Yea, like me.

| Resources are starting to make me as crazy as TIFs now. I
| don't fully understand it, my book ("Windows 98 Secrets"
| [Livingston/Straub]), pp.1126-1127, says, Resources are
| lists (aka heaps). "The lists point to areas of memory
| where user interface elements (and other items) are stored
| -- things like dialog boxes, windows, and so on." From
| that, I divine these are lists of POINTERS to locations in
| RAM. These lists have a maximum size, and when they are
| used up, your resources are gone. Windows generates an out
| of memory message upon the next request that needs space in
| a list. Even if you have plenty of RAM, the list won't get
| any longer. Even though each entry in the 32-bit heap can
| address an area of RAM 2 GB away, that also doesn't make
| the list any longer. I just don't know how long that list
| is; the book didn't say. And that's as close as I've come
| to understanding Resources.
|
| Yes, I love these explanations. /Generally/ speaking, I have
| found that if you read something incomprehensible over again, it
| makes a little more sense every time - I found this with
| literature as well as technical stuff. So If I read the above 5
| times I( would probably understand it.

Better to read it in the book. Right, multiple readings are required!

| Windows 3.1x had four 16-bit heaps, three for the User
| resource & one for the GDI (Graphic Device Interface).
| These could only address 64K each or 256K in total, "to
| store the objects used in the user interface and displayed
| on your screen". In Windows 95/98 the three User heaps have
| been combined to one 32-bit heap, capable of addressing 2GB
| of RAM. Because some 3.1x applications managed resources
| lists directly, instead of through APIs (application
| program interfaces), Microsoft retained the 16-bit GDI
| heap. But some of the elements in it were moved to the
| 32-bit heap. Then follows a table of ten Resources elements
| and the limits to them in Windows 3.1x compared to Windows
| 95/98. I see no contradiction to Livingston/Straub in the
| article "Core System Components", on the Windows 98
| Resource Kit.
|
| Where's my Advil bottle...

Understandable. Sounds like only the GDI Resources face a 64K limitation
now. However, the heap or list that comprises the User Resources,
although it can address more RAM for its "elements"-- still has a size
issue. When space runs out for entries in the list (pointers to the
elements)-- one is out of resources!

| Thanks again!
| t.

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR