HELLLLPPPP!!!! You guys lost me in this interchange. Where are we with the
answer to my last post???? Where I explained my computer and the error
message? Do I have to bring this to a fix-it guy???? Or will I be able to
do it myself with your help. Remember - I'm a stay-at-home grandma with
limited expertise!
Marie



"John John" wrote:

Geez, first you say they can't control what is posted to their groups on
their servers then you say that they removed posts in the discussion
thread, make up your mind, you are a walking contradiction. See below
for more comments.

98 Guy wrote:

Full-quoter John John wrote:


And note - Micro$oft doesn't sponsor or control this newsgroup.

Microsoft created the microsoft.* hierarchy


Probably they did.

They not "Probably did" they did, period!


Lots of groups are or have been created by
individuals and organizations over the years.

What does that have to do with Microsoft? Do you think that you are
giving us a great revelation by telling us that lots of Usenet groups
have been created by others?


It doesn't matter who created a given group or set of groups. If
they're propagated outside the organization that created it, then they
will have no control over what is posted, nor on what is removed.

They will have control on what is posted directly to their servers and
to what is removed on their servers. If you want to post directly to
one of their servers and if they refuse to post it then it won't be on
the Usenet system at all! No one ever said that Microsoft controls
posts on other servers in the Usenet system.


and made it available to the Usenet.


Only usenet makes posts available to usenet. Microsoft plays no role
in making any MS group "available" to usenet.

Now you are showing more of your ignorance. Microsoft could have
decided to make their newsgroups private, they could have decided to not
make their groups available to the Usenet. Are you saying that if
Microsoft had decided to have private newsgroups that anyone could hack
their servers and make all the contents of their private groups
available on the Usenet? Do you really think that's how things work?
Microsoft (and a pile of other companies) also has private newsgroups
and these groups were not made available to the Usenet and they don't
show up on the Usenet.


Microsoft's NNTP
servers play no special or unique role in the availability or
propagation of MS usenet groups.

It does if someone is trying to originate the post from the Microsoft
servers, if Microsoft decides to not post it at all then it won't be
there for other servers to replicate it.


Microsoft may not control what is posted or replicated on other
servers in the Usenet but it does control what is posted or
replicated on *their* servers (msnews),


The operator of any NNTP server can control or perform oversight and
removal of posts. The removal of posts on a local system almost NEVER
means that same post is also removed from other NNTP servers elsewhere
on the net.

Well gee, why are you trying to first deny that they can't remove posts
and then you turn around and say that "...The operator of any NNTP
server can control..."? What is your point, if you even have one?


for example, Microsoft removes spam and inappropriate posts on
their servers pretty well every day,


And I see that my post on Wed. Dec 5 (where I posted links to various
MS product keys, and specifically posted 5 win-98se product keys) was
removed or is otherwise not being shown on the ms technet interface to
this group.

This isn't a TechNet group.


Must keep someone busy at MS to censor posts like that.

Why should they have left that on *their* servers? What gives you the
right to participate in software piracy and to then insist that
Microsoft help you do it by having their servers at your disposition for
your piracy activities? Would you be so kind and gentle as to hold the
door open for crooks at your house while you were being robbed?


There are 19 posts. Only 11 are being shown on the MS server.

Exactly, as I first said, Microsoft can, and does remove some posts from
*their* servers. That is what I said in my first reply to you, nothing
more and nothing less. If you want to keep on arguing and posting
contradictions then do as you please, it's the Usenet. If your posts
don't make it to the Microsoft servers I for one won't be crying if I
don't see them.


Oddly, there is a Dec 5 post by the OP (Marie) that also doesn't show
up on the MS server, and it contains nothing that I'd consider as
censorship material, so it's not clear to me why it's not showing up
on the MS server. Maybe you can explain it.

Here is a link to the technet posts:

http://tinyurl.com/ynqp82

That is not a link to TechNet groups. It appears plainly enough to me
that you don't know what TechNet is or that you are incorrectly using
the name to describe something else.


if others who run news servers "synchronize" to the Microsoft
servers these posts will also be removed on their servers,


Doubt it.

More silliness, I see that you don't know what "synchronization" means.


Posts that make it to the MS server (but are removed later by a
censor) would have been propagated to other servers.

No one said otherwise, but the whole point is that if you are trying to
post directly to a msnews Microsoft server and if (for any reason
whatsoever) the post doesn't even make it to the groups to begin with
then it won't be on the Usenet anywhere. Of course if you post to a non
Microsoft server then the post will be on whatever server that wants to
have it, but that doesn't mean that Microsoft has to accept the post or
replicate it on their servers, and the fact that Microsoft *does*
control what is on their servers and that they can and do at times
remove posts has been clearly demonstrated in this thread. Which brings
us back to your initial statement and the one that I first commented on:

And note - Micro$oft doesn't sponsor or control this newsgroup.

Microsoft created the group, Microsoft hosts the group on their servers
and Microsoft can remove anything it pleases on *their* servers. No one
ever said that they (Microsoft) control other servers owned by others in
the Usenet system. What others do with their servers is their business,
not Microsoft's, and vice-versa.

John